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Old 07-11-2011, 08:20 AM   #1
SRB
 
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Question Kokikai vs Aikikai

Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and waiting to start practicing again after the birth of my new baby in a few weeks. I was thinking of switching styles and dojos from Kokikai to Aikikai. Can anyone tell if one is better than the other as far as effectiveness against attackers. I know a lot say that Aikido with ki is softer. But what does that mean? Another thing that draws me toward Aikikai is that it is THE style of Aikido, and most media weather it be print or video seems to be geared toward the Aikikai style. Please help
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Old 07-11-2011, 08:33 AM   #2
chillzATL
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Shane Bournival wrote: View Post
Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and waiting to start practicing again after the birth of my new baby in a few weeks. I was thinking of switching styles and dojos from Kokikai to Aikikai. Can anyone tell if one is better than the other as far as effectiveness against attackers. I know a lot say that Aikido with ki is softer. But what does that mean? Another thing that draws me toward Aikikai is that it is THE style of Aikido, and most media weather it be print or video seems to be geared toward the Aikikai style. Please help
There is no "the style" of aikido. IMO I'd stay where you are, you're likely to get more interesting instruction there, but go try the other place and see what you like best.
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:08 AM   #3
vjw
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
IMO I'd stay where you are, you're likely to get more interesting instruction there, but go try the other place and see what you like best.
What more interesting instruction are you talking about?
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:19 AM   #4
robin_jet_alt
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

I currently train in Aikikai, and I've trained at a few dojos in a few styles now. I think there is as much variation within Aikikai as there is between Aikikai and other styles. It really all depends on the senseis at the particular dojos you are looking at. Have a look at both and see what looks good to you.
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Old 07-11-2011, 10:34 AM   #5
Gorgeous George
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

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Victor Williams wrote: View Post
What more interesting instruction are you talking about?
+1
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:46 AM   #6
Rabih Shanshiry
 
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Shane Bournival wrote: View Post
Hi everyone, I'm new to the forum and waiting to start practicing again after the birth of my new baby in a few weeks. I was thinking of switching styles and dojos from Kokikai to Aikikai. Can anyone tell if one is better than the other as far as effectiveness against attackers. I know a lot say that Aikido with ki is softer. But what does that mean? Another thing that draws me toward Aikikai is that it is THE style of Aikido, and most media weather it be print or video seems to be geared toward the Aikikai style. Please help
If effectiveness against attackers is what you are looking for, then I'd suggest to look outside of Aikido for that...it offers a slower learning curve than other approaches if self-defense is your priority.

If you are looking for effectiveness within Aikido, I agree with the post that it is all about the instructor.

That said, there are some styles which generally lend themselves to developing effective technique in a shorter period of time than the Kokikai or typical Aikikai approach.

You might check out Yoshinkan, Yoseikan, or Tomiki Aikido if there are any representative dojos in your area.

Last edited by Rabih Shanshiry : 07-11-2011 at 11:48 AM.
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Old 07-11-2011, 12:32 PM   #7
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Rabih Shanshiry wrote: View Post
If effectiveness against attackers is what you are looking for, then I'd suggest to look outside of Aikido for that...it offers a slower learning curve than other approaches if self-defense is your priority.

If you are looking for effectiveness within Aikido, I agree with the post that it is all about the instructor.

That said, there are some styles which generally lend themselves to developing effective technique in a shorter period of time than the Kokikai or typical Aikikai approach.

You might check out Yoshinkan, Yoseikan, or Tomiki Aikido if there are any representative dojos in your area.
I mis spoke by saying effectiveness against attackers. I was trying to get others opinions on which style they thought was "better" and which style offered a more traditional Aikido. Without a starting a "my style is better than yours" debate. LOL Anyway I appreciate all of your advice thank you to all.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:08 PM   #8
Janet Rosen
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Shane Bournival wrote: View Post
I mis spoke by saying effectiveness against attackers. I was trying to get others opinions on which style they thought was "better" and which style offered a more traditional Aikido. Without a starting a "my style is better than yours" debate. LOL Anyway I appreciate all of your advice thank you to all.
"Better" depends entirely on YOUR goals, what teaching methods work best for you, and who the teacher is.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:42 PM   #9
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

A better question would net you a better answer I think. We all tend to agree its the teacher not the style, You should ask/search for teachers in your area, ask for opinions of the dojo. Then go see for yourself. Then ask if you can pay a mat fee and take a class.

That's about as brief of explanation I could give you. Good Luck

Dont make me, make you, grab my wrist.
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Old 07-11-2011, 01:47 PM   #10
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Aikikai is an organisation not a style.
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:10 PM   #11
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
William Oakes wrote: View Post
A better question would net you a better answer I think.
That. Your original question is like walking into a hardware store and asking a customer service agent, "Which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver?"
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Old 07-11-2011, 02:28 PM   #12
mickeygelum
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
"Which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver?"
A Hammer, of course.
You are always able to pound in a screw,
but not screw in a nail!
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:28 PM   #13
sakumeikan
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
A Hammer, of course.
You are always able to pound in a screw,
but not screw in a nail!
Dear Michael,
Whats to stop you from hitting the nail with the handle of the screwdriver? Show some imagination and initiative !!! One has to adapt to the situation. Cheers, Joe
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Old 07-11-2011, 07:29 PM   #14
crbateman
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Shane, whether or not one "brand" of aikido is better for YOU than another has less to do with "style" and more to do with your likes and needs, and the quality of your instructor. Go with what feels best to YOU.
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Old 07-11-2011, 09:52 PM   #15
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Whats to stop you from hitting the nail with the handle of the screwdriver? Show some imagination and initiative !!! One has to adapt to the situation. Cheers, Joe
The modern cheap plastics will shatter!!

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-It seems to be all about semantics!
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Old 07-11-2011, 11:01 PM   #16
David Yap
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
A Hammer, of course.
You are always able to pound in a screw,
but not screw in a nail!
Which is better, a nail or a screw? Different intent and different purpose.

You fight the way you train. "Fight" - as in fighting for your life.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:40 AM   #17
dps
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Michael,
Whats to stop you from hitting the nail with the handle of the screwdriver? Show some imagination and initiative !!! One has to adapt to the situation. Cheers, Joe
Have you ever try to drive a nail with the handle of a screwdriver?

Easier and faster with a hammer.

dps
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Old 07-12-2011, 12:14 PM   #18
vjw
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
That. Your original question is like walking into a hardware store and asking a customer service agent, "Which is better, a hammer or a screwdriver?"
IMO a screwdriver is better. You will find it much more interesting.
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Old 07-12-2011, 01:57 PM   #19
Cliff Judge
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

There is a lot of difference in the technical syllabus and approach of Kokikai vs mainstream Aikido. The difference is enough that you should pick one or the other and stick with it for awhile; switching before you've trained for a couple of years is likely to be an exercise in unlearning.

And having said that, Kokikai is a smaller organization. If you want access to their top-level people, you might have to travel farther for seminars and such.
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Old 07-12-2011, 08:12 PM   #20
Mario Tobias
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

my experience is that rather than search for an organization/style, search for a teacher that excels in his craft.

the teacher would have a big influence on how you would excel at the art. They are few so it would take a while for your search. It took me 22 years before I found a teacher that I'm happy to stick with.

my 2 cents.
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Old 07-12-2011, 10:12 PM   #21
Basia Halliop
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Aikikai is more of an organisation than a 'style' - not much technical uniformity within it.

And in any case the difference in quality of teaching between different dojos within any one organisation is so huge that it makes it almost meaningless, to me, to ask what style you should train in without knowing what teachers from those styles you're considering.

Visit the dojos and find out more about the individual dojos and teachers. Then you'll actually have something to base a decision on.
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Old 10-22-2011, 03:37 AM   #22
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Smile Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
"Better" depends entirely on YOUR goals, what teaching methods work best for you, and who the teacher is.
Well said, Janet!

何よりもわかりやすいことは
自分も死ぬ人間のひとである。
(金子大栄)
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Old 10-27-2011, 09:27 PM   #23
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Shane, though I'm a (new) Kokikai student, I don't know your teacher, though my senseis almost certainly do. And they will say that even in Kokikai, which has a standardized curriculum, in every organization, it's a different experience from dojo to dojo. For myself, I think as an organization, Kokikai has evolved some insights about aikido practice that work very well for me, trying to demystify "ki" and tries to strike a balance being both "soft" and martially effective. But your experience might be nothing like mine. (And having seen the "body, mind, motion" website Rochester Kokikai runs, I'm pretty sure that's the case). So it's like the others said, you need to evaluate on your own.

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Old 10-28-2011, 10:03 AM   #24
Larry Feldman
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Go see a few classes and decide for yourself.

Having trained before is to your advantage for assessing what is being taught.
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Old 11-21-2011, 03:50 PM   #25
Rick Berry
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Re: Kokikai vs Aikikai

Styles, systems, names and no names have no bearing on the outcome of your agenda. As a former practitioner of Tae Kwon Do ( 45 years) and a current (Kokikai, 27 years) aikido advocate I can tell you with conviction that not having to fight my way pass ukes defenses is much easier. It is a given that all aikido techniques are not designed for fighting they are ideas for learning to lead ukes mind (and body) to a place of unbalance which opens uke up for some very nasty strikes.

Having been on this planet for 72 years it is my observation and judgement that what counts more than anything else is the quality of the teacher and the determination of the student. If both are very high the outcome will probably be successful.
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