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Old 06-21-2011, 12:17 PM   #26
JW
 
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
strange though, that the aiki term, as an asian, i understand it at an instinctive level, i.e. didn't even have to think too much about it, like breathing.
And as a half-asian, I understand the 'ki' part but the 'ai' part makes no sense! Is the ki side-by-side, or end-to-end?? Being a hapa is confusing.
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Old 06-21-2011, 10:45 PM   #27
hughrbeyer
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

Quote:
Dave de Vos wrote: View Post
I know science does not know everything there is to know and it probably never will. But it is the best match with my beliefs and disbeliefs, my gut feeling about which phenomena are probably real and which phenomena probably aren't. No proof.
All of which is fine as long as you remember that science is perfectly comfortable with phenomena which it has no adequate theory to explain. In fact, that's what gets a scientist up in the morning.

It's also the case that the interaction between mind and body is something that no good theory exists for. Every sporting endeavor has visualizations that are used to train the right body movement, and often these visualizations make no scientific sense. But they work.

Make a theory for that.
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Old 06-22-2011, 12:58 PM   #28
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

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Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
All of which is fine as long as you remember that science is perfectly comfortable with phenomena which it has no adequate theory to explain. In fact, that's what gets a scientist up in the morning.

It's also the case that the interaction between mind and body is something that no good theory exists for. Every sporting endeavor has visualizations that are used to train the right body movement, and often these visualizations make no scientific sense. But they work.

Make a theory for that.
I think visualisations are very valuable, because they are a means to semi-consciously convey your intent to your body when consciously having your motor cortex ordering detailed muscle contraction patterns is too complicated or even impossible to do.

But I would not adhere much reality to the content of these visualisations.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:20 PM   #29
oisin bourke
 
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
this is to contrast with the spiritual and mental. physical aiki, regardless external and/or internal, is still physical, something to do with the body. just because you don't see it, internal, doesn't mean it's not a physical process. for me physical aiki, isn't just internal only, it's both. strange though, that the aiki term, as an asian, i understand it at an instinctive level, i.e. didn't even have to think too much about it, like breathing.
As a non-asian living in Asia married into an asian family, I "think" I know what you and Jonathan mean, but could you try and explain what you understand at an instinctive level?

On the science/belief front, has anyone heard about a concept called "Darwinian medicine"? It's an interesting attempt to medically explain how things like acupuncture etc might work.
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Old 06-22-2011, 05:22 PM   #30
oisin bourke
 
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

Quote:
Dave de Vos wrote: View Post
I think visualisations are very valuable, because they are a means to semi-consciously convey your intent to your body when consciously having your motor cortex ordering detailed muscle contraction patterns is too complicated or even impossible to do.

But I would not adhere much reality to the content of these visualisations.
I'm being a bit mischievous here, but for fun: Iisn't this too a visualisation?
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Old 06-22-2011, 08:52 PM   #31
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

Spiritual aiki = We used to call them hippies
Mental aiki = That was when you avoided the bully in middle school
Technical aiki = Aikido
Internal aiki = See Technical aiki

-It seems to be all about semantics!
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Old 06-23-2011, 12:00 AM   #32
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

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Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
I "think" I know what you and Jonathan mean
Uh oh, now you better say what you thought I meant, because I was totally joking!
(I thought Phi was too.)
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:17 AM   #33
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

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Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
Uh oh, now you better say what you thought I meant, because I was totally joking!
(I thought Phi was too.)
i was half-n-half.

the word ki/chi and similar term permeated most asian language, i.e. it's part of the culture. we used the term constantly and to describe many thing that of gaseous nature, blood flow, energy flow, weather, and so on and so forth. the "ai" portion is somewhat strange. in many context it's love, passion, compassion, and so on. it has many shade of meaning. we also used the term regularly as part of the language and culture. in the martial art context, combining with ki, which has the chinese equivalent of huajin or the vietnamese equivalent of "hoa khi" (ki = khi in vietnamese). aiki is about balance as in yin-yang balance. balance of the opposite. balancing of up and down, of hot and cold, of man and woman, of meat and vegetable, of love and hate, and so on and so forth. the idea permeate the asian normal lives, what they eat, what they wear, how they layout the garden, how they prepare a meal. we grew up with it. it becomes instinctive. it's hard to describe in the western culture sense. something just doesn't translate.
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Old 06-23-2011, 06:32 AM   #34
graham christian
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

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Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
All of which is fine as long as you remember that science is perfectly comfortable with phenomena which it has no adequate theory to explain. In fact, that's what gets a scientist up in the morning.

It's also the case that the interaction between mind and body is something that no good theory exists for. Every sporting endeavor has visualizations that are used to train the right body movement, and often these visualizations make no scientific sense. But they work.

Make a theory for that.
They make perfect sense to me. Theoretically and scientifically.

Regards.G.
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Old 06-23-2011, 07:53 AM   #35
oisin bourke
 
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
i was half-n-half.

the word ki/chi and similar term permeated most asian language, i.e. it's part of the culture. we used the term constantly and to describe many thing that of gaseous nature, blood flow, energy flow, weather, and so on and so forth. the "ai" portion is somewhat strange. in many context it's love, passion, compassion, and so on. it has many shade of meaning. we also used the term regularly as part of the language and culture. in the martial art context, combining with ki, which has the chinese equivalent of huajin or the vietnamese equivalent of "hoa khi" (ki = khi in vietnamese). aiki is about balance as in yin-yang balance. balance of the opposite. balancing of up and down, of hot and cold, of man and woman, of meat and vegetable, of love and hate, and so on and so forth. the idea permeate the asian normal lives, what they eat, what they wear, how they layout the garden, how they prepare a meal. we grew up with it. it becomes instinctive. it's hard to describe in the western culture sense. something just doesn't translate.
Well, thanks for saving half my blushes .

The closest thing in English I can think of is the ancient medical theory of the humors. It's where we get the word/concept "humor" obviously, plus words like "liverish" "phlegmatic" "full of bile" etc, and it's all over classical English literature. I think words like "Ki" and "aiki" are similar but encompass natural states as well as emotional ones.

Maybe.
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Old 06-24-2011, 05:35 AM   #36
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Re: Discussing different aspects of aiki

Hi Dave,
There are lots of different thought of people expressed here and of course I respect every of them.
But I like very much and agree with O'Sensei's doka of today:
You must realize this!
Aiki cannot be captured with the brush,
Nor can it be expressed with the mouth.
And so it is that one must proceed
To realization.

- Morihei Ueshiba
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