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Old 06-14-2011, 03:33 PM   #151
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Rich Hobbs wrote: View Post
I thought it was because you didn't have a dojo any more?

FWIW I think that were Dan to post a video, regardless of it's content, you'd be preprepared with your "been there/done that" attitude. You're welcome to your opinions but I think that the manner in which you voice them is disingenuous.

You claim to only use plain speaking and express the need for a "put up or shut up" attitude that includes testing if stuff works; so why didn't you take up Dan's offer to go and see for free and "test" him? You wouldn't shell out because it was expensive, in terms of the number of people and the time involved I don't actually think it was so expensive after all a good 12+ hours for the money. Yes I expect you'll redirect this question by asking why not free for all etc etc... please don't bother unless you want to answer the asked question first.

I'll freely admit that I was skeptical, I attended the seminar and if I had come away feeling that Dan was anything less than genuine, friendly and warm in his attitude or that he was "selling snake oil" or some such scam to gull folk out of their hard earned money I can assure you that I would be on here with a big flag waving to let people know to avoid him; I didn't because that's not the impression I came away with, I also didn't come on here to "big him up" because I don't think he needs us to do that, the only reason I decided to post is because I want to position myself (silence being assent) in opposition to the manner in which you comment and approach the debate(s).

You're welcome to your opinions but they'd come across as more worthwhile if they were based on experience and not just speculation.

Regards
Rich
Aikikai aikido? Shodokan, Yoshinkan, Iwama, what do you do?
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:46 PM   #152
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
John Burn wrote: View Post
But what would you have lost in turning up and meeting the guy, a lot of people met up with him prior to the seminar in a park, with no charge for that either lol.

I didn't mean Dan's video would be fake btw, but that might be your interpretation of it. They keep saying unless you know you won't see these things in videos and in reality it might look exceptionally fake to the untrained eye - not that my eye is that well trained either I might add. Forget the video idea, I doubt it will happen anytime soon.

Maybe you should put some video up for people to critique with you clearly demonstrating isometrics / your take on what you think IP is? The one video is by your own admission something that was done off the cuff. Maybe you could demonstrate some very basic low level internal skills - should be easy to show shouldn't it? And no, I won't be doing it on here, this aint about me as I'm just a baby at this stuff but you've been doing it for years...

Back to my main point, why didn't you meet Dan when given the free offer? For me, if I hear someone has the goods in terms of IP then I know who to ask, I know Ikeda sensei and used to ask him, he put me onto a few others who put me onto a few others and you know what, never once did I care about what their background was in terms or art or grade - I took it from personal recommendations from people I'd gotten hold of and felt and thanks to that, met Mike and then latterly Dan. I'll hopefully get over and train with Bill Gleason sometime too over the next year or two as well. Grades don't impress me one bit, we've got way too many self appointed shihans and self graded people in this country it's almost an epidemic - shihan syndrome. Mike n Dan could be ungraded whitebelt yahoo's for all I care (sorry guys), doesn't mean they can't walk the walk. Ikeda sensei regularly gets on the mat wearing a whitebelt and tries new things and new arts to figure more of this stuff out and I'm sure he does it all and meets these people without insisting they put up a video .
In a park John? Why a park? Unless you are doing Taichi or walking the dog? Or maybe weapons work?And yes you are right about the self anointed ones. Personally I don't rate many of the names you adhere to as I have never seen them actually up against real resistance, even on video so I don't rate anyone until I see it....
Regards
T
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:52 PM   #153
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Hunter Lonsberry wrote: View Post
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=251
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=155
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=173
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=269
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=311
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...&postcount=414

Now, no one did an in depth analysis of Chris's video. That being said, read my post, #155. While I wrote that prior to chris's video, the comments on comparing how most new people do that exercise, vs what Ark is trying to do mostly apply.

While a more educated eye may see how Ark is doing his movement, I think most can see how Chris is powering his movement. They don't look the same to me.

Now before anyone ask's where my videos are (they do exist on the QJ forum, but I am not on QJ), I've remodled a house, I just got married, and spent a week at an iaido seminar so not really much chance of filming a video with a partner. When I do a video though, I will try my best to have a partner who outweighs me by 50% or more as I do have some training partners who meet that criteria.
That will be interesting.....
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Old 06-14-2011, 03:54 PM   #154
Chris Li
 
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
It means that the guy has credentials given to him by a recognised teacher well known throughout the MA world who is known to be genuine. They actually do exist even if not in the states where Macdonalds was born and has spread world wide?
Well, I've got all that - but you didn't listen to me .

Best,

Chris

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Old 06-14-2011, 04:00 PM   #155
graham christian
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
Just to be clear, what I was saying is that IF you claim to be teaching the internals but most people doing your basic exercises aren't doing them with the internals THEN your system has failed. Not that everyone necessarily has to teach them or has to teach them the same way. That's an interesting point but not the one I was making.

I think I acknowledged that what Tohei was showing in your vid may have its own validity; it's just not what I'm pursuing right now.

The Numata Sensei video is here.
Hugh. I've given my opinion on that video and to understand more I would have to hear Numatas explanation of it, no one else's. I like the Gleason ones better as he is explaining what he is doing.

Some of us have been around a long time and have come across many teachers and exponents of various arts and indeed ways of Ki. That's what some folks seem to forget or not take into account.

So far what I've seen and heard explained I understand and recognise.(not under the terms given though)

I show them to students who come and say this person did this and this person did that. I get students to feel it and to learn to do it but I break it into two categories. Tricks and useful applications.

Some I say good now you can do that you can see why it's not part of my Aikido. Oh, by the way, also how to what you would call counter those things and what I would call harmonize with them.

Regards.G.
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:06 PM   #156
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Well, I've got all that - but you didn't listen to me .

Best,

Chris
Nor you me.....
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:19 PM   #157
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
No one has explained what they have learned from DD or how it might have affected their "aikido" just about what may look fake if a video was put up?
That's not true. I've read a few folks describing a fair amount. Josh Philipson posted some very nice descriptions a little while back, if I recall correctly. If I had more exposure than I did, I'd have commented more. Perhaps down the line. Suffice to say I think a key quality to Dan's approach is "hands on." I think it's key to why so many people feel like he has given them a whole new outlook on their training. Looking around Aikiweb you can see a number of highly experienced people who have found benefit to training with Dan. I think the quality issue is somewhat moot. Whatever he does, he's good at it and can help make other people better at it than they were. I got the impression that Dan's teaching method was largely very individualized (more "hands on"). Also, he was training as much as we were, if not more.
I hear you on your BS detector, Tony. I believe I made a comment a while back that it sometimes reads like an infomercial. I think Dan's enthusiasm is catchy and the enjoyment almost everyone seems to get from their training with him is simply shining through. I have a strong skeptical side, but Dan seems to be onto something good for budo practice. Is it exclusive to him? Of course not. The same is true for the others in the "IT" crowd. It's nothing (or very little) new. These people just have a good understanding of specifics that, according to many, are often (for a variety of reasons) overlooked or under trained.
My beginner's 2 bits.
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:37 PM   #158
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Rich Hobbs wrote: View Post
Apparently because going to a seminar and coming back with any first hand experience leaves you less qualified to discuss the subject (which in this case was not teaching us how to do aikido) due to the delusions you acquire whilst attending; no one has the ability to see through a con or if they do they wouldn't talk about it because everyone is too frightened of what people might think.

It's much clearer now; less exposure = greater knowledge.
Not frightened, embarrased....
Less exposure more cultish.... greater knowledge by going about it oneself and learning from others who are not "secretive". Gullible prefer a good mystery as its irresistible or for a reason which nobody seems to understand because they don't = must have it before all the others as its new and nobody else has it yet, got to have it or I'm stuffed without it as my image is on the line, oh shit better go and do it..... got my "badge" as it was issued by the Guru, I'm "safe" cause others like me have done it to..... Phew!

If a good film comes on at the cinema like the latest Pirates of the Caribbean mark 4 everybody goes to it because we know it's going to be good entertainment, not because it's Jonny Debt (he has none at present) but because of all the other popular's in the cast plus its raw entertainment aspect. We know that Jonny is an actor and quite good in most peoples eyes, but supposing its an unknown actor would we we all go to watch it and pay good money, I doubt it.... Part of the reason of why it became popular was of it's previews and it worked and has become a cult almost .
Even more so if you are self employed cabbie, would you still take time off losing a day's earnings to go and see a film in London, when you can see it in your own home in Winchester for a fraction of the price in the evening before going out to work? I know what I would do.....
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Old 06-14-2011, 04:37 PM   #159
Dave de Vos
 
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

I'm just a beginner with this stuff but what understand from it is that you build and use you body in a different way.

It's not the muscles that you train, but the connective tissues. And that is a slow process, because connective tissue develops much slower than muscle tissue. The exercises are not the same as exercises that build muscle strenght.

And then there is another challenge. How to use this kind of body in a martial way, like in aikido, judo, karate, mma, bjj or whatever.

It takes a lot of time and practise to achieve both of these goals.
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Old 06-14-2011, 05:13 PM   #160
Dave de Vos
 
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Some additions:

Together with rewiring the body, you have to rewire the mind in order to rewire the body and to use the rewired body. Also a big challenge.

And about how to use this rewired body in aikido, you have to find it out for yourself mostly as neither Dan nor Mike claim to be aikido teachers.
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Old 06-14-2011, 06:15 PM   #161
graham christian
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Thanks for that view Dave.

Regards.G.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:15 PM   #162
hughrbeyer
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

[Re Numata Sensei's video]
Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
The Ukes I am not too sure of, I do not think they are making any real sort of 'attack.' They seem to me to be quite anxious to bite the dust , a bit too compliant for my taste.
Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Uke's? Well it does show they are committing themselves but it appears to me they are very unstable.
This is an interesting test case, since none of us commenting have trained with Numata Sensei in person. It's all about what you can see, which, I'm guessing, is a reflection of our different experience.

What I see is that yes, the ukes tank quickly. Because they're unstable. Because Numata takes their balance so quickly and with so little external movement that you don't see it. You just see the result.
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Old 06-14-2011, 11:27 PM   #163
hughrbeyer
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Some I say good now you can do that you can see why it's not part of my Aikido.
Which brings us back to the question of why we're doing aikido in the first place.

You, as I understand it, study the Art of Peace which you manifest through your particular non-confrontational approach.

I'm all for the Art of Peace. Where we may differ is that I don't think you can pursue that Art if what you're doing isn't martially valid. The Sword that Gives Life is first and foremost a sharp sword.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:26 AM   #164
sakumeikan
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
[Re Numata Sensei's video]

This is an interesting test case, since none of us commenting have trained with Numata Sensei in person. It's all about what you can see, which, I'm guessing, is a reflection of our different experience.

What I see is that yes, the ukes tank quickly. Because they're unstable. Because Numata takes their balance so quickly and with so little external movement that you don't see it. You just see the result.
Dear Hugh,
How can you unbalance a Uke with a stable posture if you as Tori do not make contact with him/her? There is a distinct lack of contact seen in the Numata Sensei vid.Why would anyone fall over
if their balance was not broken?Try this type of movement on a judoka and you would get a rude awakening.Have you ever been gripped by a judoka , I have , I trained in Judo for 13 years, and no judoka worth his salt would be thrown from some of the body movement shown.I appreciate it was a demo, but at times I ask myself , do these demos do more harm than good to the already tarnished image of Aikido?In some areas Aikidoka are viewed with disdain and classed as weak, dancers and chancers.Some Aikidoka fit this description but some are real Martial Artists.
So lets get a bit of reality into this forum.I want to see a MARTIAL ART not a vid which looks like a rehearsal for a Broadway dance show.
Cheers, Joe.

Ps I expect you might say Numata Sensei is using internal skills/leading the Uke s Ki.Hope you can come up with a answer other than these examples.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:37 AM   #165
sakumeikan
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
Which brings us back to the question of why we're doing aikido in the first place.

You, as I understand it, study the Art of Peace which you manifest through your particular non-confrontational approach.

I'm all for the Art of Peace. Where we may differ is that I don't think you can pursue that Art if what you're doing isn't martially valid. The Sword that Gives Life is first and foremost a sharp sword.
Dear Hugh,
Before you can be benevolent and spare people from pain /punishment/retribution you have to be in a position whereby you have the power to exercise your authority to inflict punishment in the first place.
In society criminals would laugh out loud if the courts
just gave them a slap on the wrist and told these guys, Poor Lad, you have been a naughty boy , robbing old aged people, go home and take you cannabis.Kidding aside his is how it is in the U.K.
At least the Yanks dish out long prison sentences.
So I agree with you here that the sword has to be sharp enough to execute someone, but hopefully /ideally the sword should wherever possible remain in its scabbard.
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 06-15-2011, 03:07 AM   #166
mrlizard123
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Aikikai aikido? Shodokan, Yoshinkan, Iwama, what do you do?
This is relevant because...?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Not frightened, embarrased....
Less exposure more cultish.... greater knowledge by going about it oneself and learning from others who are not "secretive". Gullible prefer a good mystery as its irresistible or for a reason which nobody seems to understand because they don't = must have it before all the others as its new and nobody else has it yet, got to have it or I'm stuffed without it as my image is on the line, oh shit better go and do it..... got my "badge" as it was issued by the Guru, I'm "safe" cause others like me have done it to..... Phew!

If a good film comes on at the cinema like the latest Pirates of the Caribbean mark 4 everybody goes to it because we know it's going to be good entertainment, not because it's Jonny Debt (he has none at present) but because of all the other popular's in the cast plus its raw entertainment aspect. We know that Jonny is an actor and quite good in most peoples eyes, but supposing its an unknown actor would we we all go to watch it and pay good money, I doubt it.... Part of the reason of why it became popular was of it's previews and it worked and has become a cult almost .
Let me get this clear... taking the pieces from your argument you're saying that; less exposure = more cultish... so a better approach is more like Johnny Depp and the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, which became popular because of the previews, and became a cult almost; doesn't this seem bass ackwards to you? Dan's lack of videos make it cultish but he should be like Johnny Depp and have a cult with video previews? I think you meandered off the trail a mite there.

With regards to the rambling nonsense about badges and image and competing to get it before the "others" get it; I freely admit and tell people I train with and who train with me that I don't know everything, am still working to improve my skills in areas where I do know things and am always looking to improve rather than try to rest upon some imagined laurels and stagnate by assuming/believing I know it all; I guess that's where we differ...

I was having a nose at your videos on youtube (you're user "towag" right? otherwise I was watching some other guy) and thought it was interesting the way you have a distinction between your kata and "applied" videos; is this what you mean by testing things under pressure with an uke who's giving you something real to work with?

Since this thread is indeed getting to be something of a Pirates of the Caribbean 5 I'm going to leave this as my last response to you, until there is some fresh material; I personally tend to watch films on recommendations mainly and avoid watching trailers on the whole since they often spoil a good movie by picking out only the best bits and leave the viewer with an incomplete or incorrect impression of what the movie will be like; did you pick out the best bits in your "previews"?

Last edited by mrlizard123 : 06-15-2011 at 03:11 AM.

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile
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Old 06-15-2011, 05:56 AM   #167
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Rich Hobbs wrote: View Post
This is relevant because...?

Let me get this clear... taking the pieces from your argument you're saying that; less exposure = more cultish... so a better approach is more like Johnny Depp and the Pirates of the Caribbean franchise, which became popular because of the previews, and became a cult almost; doesn't this seem bass ackwards to you? Dan's lack of videos make it cultish but he should be like Johnny Depp and have a cult with video previews? I think you meandered off the trail a mite there.

With regards to the rambling nonsense about badges and image and competing to get it before the "others" get it; I freely admit and tell people I train with and who train with me that I don't know everything, am still working to improve my skills in areas where I do know things and am always looking to improve rather than try to rest upon some imagined laurels and stagnate by assuming/believing I know it all; I guess that's where we differ...

I was having a nose at your videos on youtube (you're user "towag" right? otherwise I was watching some other guy) and thought it was interesting the way you have a distinction between your kata and "applied" videos; is this what you mean by testing things under pressure with an uke who's giving you something real to work with?

Since this thread is indeed getting to be something of a Pirates of the Caribbean 5 I'm going to leave this as my last response to you, until there is some fresh material; I personally tend to watch films on recommendations mainly and avoid watching trailers on the whole since they often spoil a good movie by picking out only the best bits and leave the viewer with an incomplete or incorrect impression of what the movie will be like; did you pick out the best bits in your "previews"?
Sorry I'm not so eloquent as you, I was just trying to make an analogy that's all. If it "looks" good you are more likely to go see it, right? If it isn't you have wasted your dosh. Common sense?
If you feel that you have something missing in your aikido, are a fan of Dan, fine, go for it, fill yer boots, I just don't buy it that's all.
I'm sure many still find it strange that we do not know his past history, his teachers and so forth and how he came about his theories and practice only his say-so.
Going by some of his comments on other posts, I have my suspicions that's all.... It's now a closed chapter. Please just put me on your ignore list, me, I have nothing of worth to say, take care Rich
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Old 06-15-2011, 06:07 AM   #168
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Hugh,
How can you unbalance a Uke with a stable posture if you as Tori do not make contact with him/her? There is a distinct lack of contact seen in the Numata Sensei vid.Why would anyone fall over
if their balance was not broken?Try this type of movement on a judoka and you would get a rude awakening.Have you ever been gripped by a judoka , I have , I trained in Judo for 13 years, and no judoka worth his salt would be thrown from some of the body movement shown.I appreciate it was a demo, but at times I ask myself , do these demos do more harm than good to the already tarnished image of Aikido?In some areas Aikidoka are viewed with disdain and classed as weak, dancers and chancers.Some Aikidoka fit this description but some are real Martial Artists.
So lets get a bit of reality into this forum.I want to see a MARTIAL ART not a vid which looks like a rehearsal for a Broadway dance show.
Cheers, Joe.

Ps I expect you might say Numata Sensei is using internal skills/leading the Uke s Ki.Hope you can come up with a answer other than these examples.
Of course Joe can't you see "it" ?
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:38 AM   #169
graham christian
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Hugh Beyer wrote: View Post
Which brings us back to the question of why we're doing aikido in the first place.

You, as I understand it, study the Art of Peace which you manifest through your particular non-confrontational approach.

I'm all for the Art of Peace. Where we may differ is that I don't think you can pursue that Art if what you're doing isn't martially valid. The Sword that Gives Life is first and foremost a sharp sword.
Yes Hugh I do study the art of peace.

Where we differ is probably on many things including 'martial'

The sword of life life quote? I guarantee we differ on it's meaning.

Implications of not martially valid just shows me anothers ignorance, lack of understanding.

Regards.G.
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Old 06-15-2011, 10:46 AM   #170
lbb
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Implications of not martially valid just shows me anothers ignorance, lack of understanding.
Isn't that just a bit too glibly dismissive, Graham? Surely if something is martially valid, this can be demonstrated, no? It's a copout to say, "Oh, you're just ignorant" -- if something is martially valid, can't that be demonstrated?
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:03 AM   #171
graham christian
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Isn't that just a bit too glibly dismissive, Graham? Surely if something is martially valid, this can be demonstrated, no? It's a copout to say, "Oh, you're just ignorant" -- if something is martially valid, can't that be demonstrated?
Of course it can Mary. If a person can't see that something is then they are in for a nasty shock wouldn't you say?

People may always ask for proof, go on prove it! You may end up as some kind of puppet show.

So no it's not a cop out it's an abrupt statement.

Regards.G.
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:30 AM   #172
Hellis
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Hugh,
How can you unbalance a Uke with a stable posture if you as Tori do not make contact with him/her? There is a distinct lack of contact seen in the Numata Sensei vid.Why would anyone fall over
if their balance was not broken?Try this type of movement on a judoka and you would get a rude awakening.Have you ever been gripped by a judoka , I have , I trained in Judo for 13 years, and no judoka worth his salt would be thrown from some of the body movement shown.I appreciate it was a demo, but at times I ask myself , do these demos do more harm than good to the already tarnished image of Aikido?In some areas Aikidoka are viewed with disdain and classed as weak, dancers and chancers.Some Aikidoka fit this description but some are real Martial Artists.
So lets get a bit of reality into this forum.I want to see a MARTIAL ART not a vid which looks like a rehearsal for a Broadway dance show.
Cheers, Joe.

Ps I expect you might say Numata Sensei is using internal skills/leading the Uke s Ki.Hope you can come up with a answer other than these examples.
Joe

I can't agree more.
I reckon if Numata Sensei had stepped off the mat those guys would have just carried on with their ukemi exercise.

How come we never see Chiba Sensei do that stuff

Henry Ellis

http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
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Old 06-15-2011, 11:39 AM   #173
john.burn
 
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
In a park John? Why a park? Unless you are doing Taichi or walking the dog? Or maybe weapons work?And yes you are right about the self anointed ones. Personally I don't rate many of the names you adhere to as I have never seen them actually up against real resistance, even on video so I don't rate anyone until I see it....
Regards
T
Tony, why not in a park? This stuff at the level most of the people on here are at is all about very basic body movement so... why not in a park? Really? You use that as an argument, my god, I think you've lost the plot completely.

As for you not rating any of the names I adhere to then that just show's you to be completely clueless in your answers to people on here - there is only person I generally personally mention in terms of Aikido on here and to quote you elsewhere on this thread or on the other one you asked who he was so you have no idea who he is yet you don't rate him? Hahaha tells me everything I need to know.

Barking mad!

Best Regards,
John

www.chishindojo.co.uk
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:00 PM   #174
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
John Burn wrote: View Post
Tony, why not in a park? This stuff at the level most of the people on here are at is all about very basic body movement so... why not in a park? Really? You use that as an argument, my god, I think you've lost the plot completely.

As for you not rating any of the names I adhere to then that just show's you to be completely clueless in your answers to people on here - there is only person I generally personally mention in terms of Aikido on here and to quote you elsewhere on this thread or on the other one you asked who he was so you have no idea who he is yet you don't rate him? Hahaha tells me everything I need to know.

Barking mad!
Not for me John, when you mentioned a park I thought it was for other purposes fitting your requirements, sorry..... How many people do you know in The T/S world? Humans are only humans after all, none are godlike or anything else, maybe skilful in kata and collusive "aikido" and the like, but that remains to be seen, remember I'm a heretic, I don't really practice "aikido"

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 06-15-2011 at 12:05 PM.
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Old 06-15-2011, 12:00 PM   #175
john.burn
 
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Re: Strength vs Ki.

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Joe

I can't agree more.
I reckon if Numata Sensei had stepped off the mat those guys would have just carried on with their ukemi exercise.

How come we never see Chiba Sensei do that stuff

Henry Ellis

http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
Hi Henry,

Well... I'm guessing he has done that in the past, there's always exceptions to every rule, I have watched many clips of him and whilst I'm not for a second saying I don't think he can look after himself I don't think the uke's are always resisting that much and they're usually doing the very stylized movements you get from people who study with him (I'm not criticizing here, just saying what I see).

One of his favourite teachers was Kuroiwa sensei I believe and when he was asked about O'Sensei and the jo trick he said something like if your teacher tells you you can't push him over what are you going to do... Hmmmm, so when O Sensei was getting on are you really telling me Chiba sensei would have not tanked the ukemi? Kuroiwa was a well known fighter and if he did it then I'm sure Chiba would have too. There's a time and a place for all things.

Admittedly, if I was taking ukemi for Chiba sensei I'm damn sure I wouldn't be fighting the guy

Didn't Dan have a run in with Chiba sensei? Maybe you should ask about that as you guys are all accepting of Chiba sensei and his skill levels so again, if Dan stopped him, from performing his aikido on him then maybe, just maybe he actually does have something?

Best Regards,
John

www.chishindojo.co.uk
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