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Old 06-10-2011, 05:44 PM   #26
phitruong
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
Jesus once stopped a mob stoning a woman by a few words scratched in the sand and a single question.
"Can we all get along?"

or

"Anyone know where i can find Ki or perhap Waldo?"
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Old 06-10-2011, 08:10 PM   #27
Erick Mead
 
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
"Can we all get along?"
or
"Anyone know where i can find Ki or perhap Waldo?"
'Who is without sin? -- he can throw the first stone."

I always like to think he looked at each of those in front and wrote their chief sin on the ground in front of them.

Whether one believes or not -- it is a very serious point about words and manner taking center when dealing with violence.

That is also a basic.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 06-10-2011, 09:36 PM   #28
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
No, no it won't. And for that matter it won't get you even close to doing aiki.
Fighting well...is fighting well. It has nothing to do with the subject of good basics to attain aiki in Aiki...do.
Otherwise ya might as well call the art, jujutsu and done with it.

Where we agree is that having some measure of IP/aiki and not knowing how to fight has brought a credibility gap. One which has been worsened by those deluded and timid souls thinking they understand IP/aiki and going about their business constantly evading attacking energy by twirling and making large body displacements and thinking they are demonstrating Ki strength. I am just as saddened by this stuff as you are.

The major difference between you and I, is actually having IP/aiki and then the ability to use it ...to fight with, not the end goal of effective delivery.

I agree, but the other side of that mantra is.... "Most people I have met and talked to, were convinced they already had it and got it to some degree....until they did actually.......feeeel it?
And that...my friend is why ten thousand words of debate all end...in person, and why one by one...people are seeing the thruth of the real power behind these arts and training it!
All the best
Dan
As I keep saying Dan, lets see it on video, you are the man with the know how? Lets see it as well as feeeeel it Maybe it's what I do? jujutsu that is.... You are good at telling this to us, so why not let us see it? It's all I ask.....
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Old 06-10-2011, 10:49 PM   #29
DH
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
As I keep saying Dan, lets see it on video, you are the man with the know how? Lets see it as well as feeeeel it Maybe it's what I do? jujutsu that is.... You are good at telling this to us, so why not let us see it? It's all I ask.....
Not interested Tony.
Neither are you really. I see no actual interest from you when I was in your town and offered to host you for free...you don't even remember it, because you never once took it seriously. No big deal to me, I don't mind the fun, but don't think for a minute I am taking you seriously either.
If however, you decide to get serious, shoot me line. I assure you- you are NOT doing what I do, and frankly you would not last a minute with what I could to you ....at will. Yes, I just said that.
I bear you no ill will. You are me on any other day. I didn't believe in this stuff either when I first encountered it...I find it sort of a divine comedy that I am now an advocate. God has a great sense of humor.

Maybe we'll meet someday. I like to think it will be with a smile and open arms. And after...beers and dinner.
In the mean time, good on you for calling people on their crap.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 06-10-2011 at 11:03 PM.
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Old 06-10-2011, 11:07 PM   #30
DH
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Quote:
Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote:
One cannot know if one does not train with full resistance. As for the basics? Goes without saying, good bodily core strength combined with the basics done at full resistance will see to that....
No, no it won't. And for that matter it won't get you even close to doing aiki.
Fighting well...is fighting well. It has nothing to do with the subject of good basics to attain aiki in Aiki...do.
Otherwise ya might as well call the art, jujutsu and done with it.

Where we agree is that having some measure of IP/aiki and not knowing how to fight has brought a credibility gap. One which has been worsened by those deluded and timid souls thinking they understand IP/aiki and going about their business constantly evading attacking energy by twirling and making large body displacements and thinking they are demonstrating Ki strength.
Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
<<Marking calendar in red -- "Agreed with Dan.">>
Hm.
And that's the interesting part. Those who don't get it...pretty much all think they do...till they meet someone wo actually does.
I would not rush to agree with me on that. I suspect we are looking at this from two very different positions.
Just say'n
Dan
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Old 06-11-2011, 01:57 PM   #31
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Not interested Tony.
Neither are you really. I see no actual interest from you when I was in your town and offered to host you for free...you don't even remember it, because you never once took it seriously. No big deal to me, I don't mind the fun, but don't think for a minute I am taking you seriously either.
If however, you decide to get serious, shoot me line. I assure you- you are NOT doing what I do, and frankly you would not last a minute with what I could to you ....at will. Yes, I just said that.
I bear you no ill will. You are me on any other day. I didn't believe in this stuff either when I first encountered it...I find it sort of a divine comedy that I am now an advocate. God has a great sense of humor.

Maybe we'll meet someday. I like to think it will be with a smile and open arms. And after...beers and dinner.
In the mean time, good on you for calling people on their crap.
Dan
Have you ever thought that I might believe in it in another way? My students would often tell me that they could not feel my grip or where my "power" was coming from when they were thrown, they said it was soft yet powerful at the same time, yet at the same time non-resistant, so I am only going by what they say, no more.... as you say I might have it without realising or thinking about it as I don't, that is where we probably differ. I can resist them at will any time or stop their attempt at waza instantly, so we are not that far apart, but as you say see it from another perspective, so I'm happy to leave it at that..... Are you paying for the beers and dinner ?
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:03 AM   #32
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Not interested Tony.
Neither are you really. I see no actual interest from you when I was in your town and offered to host you for free...you don't even remember it, because you never once took it seriously. No big deal to me, I don't mind the fun, but don't think for a minute I am taking you seriously either.
If however, you decide to get serious, shoot me line. I assure you- you are NOT doing what I do, and frankly you would not last a minute with what I could to you ....at will. Yes, I just said that.
I bear you no ill will. You are me on any other day. I didn't believe in this stuff either when I first encountered it...I find it sort of a divine comedy that I am now an advocate. God has a great sense of humor.

Maybe we'll meet someday. I like to think it will be with a smile and open arms. And after...beers and dinner.
In the mean time, good on you for calling people on their crap.
Dan
Dear Dan,
I have read your comments to Tony.Personally I find them offensive. You [may I suggest ]stop issuing out statements like 'you would not last a minute etc '.Its not necessary to blow your own Big horn or try and be the fastest gun in town.You might just might just meet someone , think your the top man , and end up with egg on your chin.Remember no matter how big, good you think you are , there is always somebody bigger /better etc.
Modesty does not seem to me to be your forte.In my book anybody who makes these type of remarks should curb their ego.
You might think your the bees knees[maybe you are ]but I think you are just demeaning others and yourself.
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:17 AM   #33
DH
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Thank you Joe
Don't take these things seriously
Tony had no trouble telling Marc, George, me and a host of others that we are aiki bunnies and we don't get it and we would not last a minute under real stress or testing and so on and so on.....
Were you offended for us then?
I wasn't. I can at least understand where Tony is coming from and have said so many times. I wont bother reposting them all, but if you care that much go back and read how many times I also stated I understand his doubt, bear him no ill will, offered to host him free, then offered to buy dinner after.
Tony and I will get along just fine when we meet, and we will laugh and tell stories after over beer.
Thanks for your concern.
Dan

Last edited by DH : 06-12-2011 at 09:28 AM.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:34 AM   #34
sakumeikan
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Thank you Joe
Don't take these things seriously
Tony had no trouble telling Marc, George, me and a host of others that we are aiki bunnies and we don't get it and we would not last a minute under real stress or testing and so on and so on.....
Were you offended for us then?
I wasn't. I can at least understand where Tony is coming from and have said so many times. I wont bother reposting them all, but if you care that much go back and read how many times I also stated I understand his doubt, bear him no ill will, offered to host him free, then offered to buy dinner after.
Tony and I will get along just fine when we meet, and we will laugh and tell stories after over beer.
Thanks for your concern.
Dan
Dear Dan ,
If your comments were made with tongue in cheek, I guess I owe you an apology.Tony says the sweetest things about everybody , I get dizzy reading his comments.He's a good lad and I get on with him fine.
Cheers, Joe.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:46 AM   #35
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Basics are really not so basic. The building blocks of good posture, relaxation, positive mind and coming from center are involved in all technique and for me, life.
I was told if I never leave the basics I won't have to go back to them.

Today affords me another opportunity to incorporate this practice into everyday and when I feel resistance an opportunity to watch myself and correct when I am ready. I wish I was always ready the instant I need to change.

Sometimes I am so human I want to hang onto my ways while they are not working for me. Patience with myself and others on and off this journey is developed though this practice. The edges are getting chipped off just as I notice others being less prickly.
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Old 06-12-2011, 09:49 AM   #36
DH
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Dan ,
If your comments were made with tongue in cheek, I guess I owe you an apology.Tony says the sweetest things about everybody , I get dizzy reading his comments.He's a good lad and I get on with him fine.
Cheers, Joe.
No worries, Joe
That's why I said go back and read all the times I defended him. I have talked and or met a bunch of guys who know him or have trained with him, They said the same thing you did.
So I've had a good idea where he's coming from.
Then again it's pretty funny calling a bunch of guys who grew up grappling, and others who have done more serious testing...aiki bunnies in the first place. If you saw the pictures Marc and George took of themselves eating carrots with buck teeth, I think you will see that no one is taking this stuff seriously or getting angry. Life's too short.

Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 06-12-2011 at 09:52 AM.
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Old 06-12-2011, 03:17 PM   #37
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Thank you Joe
Don't take these things seriously
Tony had no trouble telling Marc, George, me and a host of others that we are aiki bunnies and we don't get it and we would not last a minute under real stress or testing and so on and so on.....
Were you offended for us then?
I wasn't. I can at least understand where Tony is coming from and have said so many times. I wont bother reposting them all, but if you care that much go back and read how many times I also stated I understand his doubt, bear him no ill will, offered to host him free, then offered to buy dinner after.
Tony and I will get along just fine when we meet, and we will laugh and tell stories after over beer.
Thanks for your concern.
Dan
Naaah Dan, I said that Marc and George were bunnies!! You are just subtle with words and manipulation and a lot more ego than me, that is for sure..... Have you ever thought that your reluctance to put up on video what you claim, is actually making you look and sound incredulous? You might seduce some to your way of thought and "technique", but I'm not so easily led..... I'm sure that Joe and a few others saw it that way to, but you are friendly, too friendly from my point of view, always the mark of a good salesman in my opinion.... Think about it as I'm sure you do.
I suppose to some extent we mirror each other, but I'm not so manipulative as you...... In fact I'm stupidly honest.....
I'd like to ask you how you came about your "knowledge" if you would permit yourself to allow that much "insight" to what it is you do, as you were so keen to offer me a freebie why not everybody else??
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:36 PM   #38
DH
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Well, that didn't go well did it?
Here I thought you were being far more innocuous than this.
As for me...
Manipulative?
Marketing?
I don't where you got your education or training, but in my world the way to market...is...to produce video, to advertize, and to have an organization.
I don't do video, even for my own people
I don't even advertize my own dojo
and I don't have any organization at all.

Were I interested in growing...I am doing all the wrong things!
Were I interested in training with groups of people who might actually get this away from the limelight...I am spot on.

I any event, I now get the tenor of your views of me and will not converse with you further.
Dan
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Old 06-12-2011, 05:52 PM   #39
graham christian
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Well, that didn't go well did it?
Here I thought you were being far more innocuous than this.
As for me...
Manipulative?
Marketing?
I don't where you got your education or training, but in my world the way to market...is...to produce video, to advertize, and to have an organization.
I don't do video, even for my own people
I don't even advertize my own dojo
and I don't have any organization at all.

Were I interested in growing...I am doing all the wrong things!
Were I interested in training with groups of people who might actually get this away from the limelight...I am spot on.

I any event, I now get the tenor of your views of me and will not converse with you further.
Dan
Come on Dan, don't play the innocent.

I don't think it's necessary to put another down but I do think a little honesty is in order here.

You do advertise and in fact many appear on this forum advertising your events.(whether personally put up by you or not but done in your name nevertheless, with your full agreement)

Thus you do tap into this Aikido market don't you? You market your product right here on Aikiweb.

I'm not against you doing so but find it strange you insist you don't.

Regards.G.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:16 PM   #40
DH
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
You market your product right here on Aikiweb. I'm not against you doing so but find it strange you insist you don't.
Regards.G.
I'm not against it either. I will let you know if I attempt to do so in the future. Were that to happen you will se video, pictures, flyers, notices, a schedule, a syllabus, and an organization, probably with ranks. The only trouble with that is as soon as I saw all of that happening....I would quit.
I've also closed two successful Dojos as well; one in 97 and one 2002. There are people here that were members of those dojo when it happened. I've also refused dozens of students. I walked out to train privately and get better. Was that marketing too, Graham?

This is not marketing kiddo, my participaton in these discussions would actually run counter and be harmful to a marketing campaign were I to have one. I am just notifying folks these get togethers are happening. I've done 38 of these. The majority of them had no notices up that they were even happening. The others I put up had just a few spaces left when they went up.and the notices were last minute. I'm doing one in two weeks and no one here knows it is happening.
Hey, I'm not going to quibble with you. But if you think what I have been doing is marketing....be glad you're not in the advertising biz...you'd be bankrupt!
Dan

Last edited by DH : 06-12-2011 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:27 PM   #41
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Well, that didn't go well did it?
Here I thought you were being far more innocuous than this.
As for me...
Manipulative?
Marketing?
I don't where you got your education or training, but in my world the way to market...is...to produce video, to advertize, and to have an organization.
I don't do video, even for my own people
I don't even advertize my own dojo
and I don't have any organization at all.

Were I interested in growing...I am doing all the wrong things!
Were I interested in training with groups of people who might actually get this away from the limelight...I am spot on.

I any event, I now get the tenor of your views of me and will not converse with you further.
Dan
A very good marketing ploy and it works well, again very manipulative in itself if I might say so..... Dan you are a very clever chap so power to you and those that are easily led, good luck...
You can check me out anytime, but there is no information on you, I find that a little strange as I'm sure a few others do, You must have had teachers and the like, so who are they? Where was your training? What ranks did you receive? You say you have grappling and MMA experience? Well lets hear your story, I'm truly interested, We only have the say so of those you have as students on this site and a few other leads who still know nothing about you? But it seems even they can't come up with any information, but just say so as they like you? Again I find this strange? Even Takeda & Ueshiba were well known and connected in their own spheres as are other martial artists yet nobody has heard or knows anything about you....
You see, I am not in MA for the money as you seem to say you aren't and are quick to defend your expenses on your seminars, as I was just doing a few sums to articulate in a previous post. Going by all concerned it was a pretty successful seminar numbers wise, so you must have made a few bob? Not everyone on video is trying to advertise but just put up their stuff, nothing wrong with that, in fact I wish a few more on this site would, even Graham does, bless his cotton cosy....
All those I have asked to put up seem to have shut up, so I can take flack , but it seems many on here can't as they are far too sensitive about what they don't know...... who really cares?
What I don't like are manipulators, whether I'm wrong or right I don't know, but my experience of martial arts "masters" would have me guessing that way.... Sadly nine times out of ten I am usually right, but that is no surprise as human nature is not always honest is it.......
The geezer from Aunkai, if I got that right, has some demo video up
so I can see what he is doing and can also see what he is doing with his body, which is not far off what I am doing with mine, or very similar....
You won't, so I cannot buy into something I am not even able to have a peek at before I decide to buy, hence my suspicion, even with your fans on this site saying how good you are, then again I have experienced something like this before and was very disappointed when I have paid to be taught something I have already learnt for myself, such is life....
Oh please don't worry about your freebie offer I knew it wasn't for real
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:36 PM   #42
DH
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Deleted
Good luck in your training and good bye.
Dan
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:42 PM   #43
graham christian
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I'm not against it either. I will let you know if I attempt to do so in the future. Were that to happen you will se video, pictures, flyers, notices, a schedule, a syllabus, and an organization, probably with ranks. The only trouble with that is as soon as I saw all of that happening....I would quit.
I've also closed two successful Dojos as well; one in 97 and one 2002. There are people here that were members of those dojo when it happened. I've also refused dozens of students. I walked out to train privately and get better.Was that marketing too, Graham?
This is not marketing Graham, in some respects it would actually run counter to my goals were I to have set any. Aikido folks are a portion of those who train with me. I am just notifying folks these get togethers are happening. I've done 38 of these. Most of them had no notices up that they were even happening. Most of the others I put up had just a few spaces left when they went up.and the notices were last minute.
Hey, I'm not going to quibble. But if you think what I have been doing is marketing....be glad you're not in the advertising biz...you'd be bankrupt!
Dan
Dan. To place your service or product on a public place showing when it is, where it is and how much it costs is marketing. It's nothing to do with an organization as you are a one man business offering a service for money.

It does come under marketing and it also comes under promotions.

If you think marketing is just something to do with big organizations and flyers and and the rest of it then it is you who are confused. Just putting an ad in the local paper to sell something comes under marketing. Think about it. Putting something on the market and communicating it's there and it's cost.

I notice you do have in your advertisements a schedule and you promote a sylabus. In your own words that's part of marketing. The other part of marketing and promotions ie: visible things like videos, pictures etc you decide not to have. So you have your service advertised in words but not in pictures. That's your choice.

Therefore I conclude that you do market your service by words and not by visuals for your own reasons.

In fact I would say that here on this forum if a service or product is being advertised for money then it should be under the heading of marketplace.

There's another part of business or organization (verb) I could tell you about also Dan and that's P.R. Now you definitely do that part.

Regards.G.
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:47 PM   #44
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Deleted
Good luck in your training and good bye.
Dan
No I wasn't spitting in your face Dan, I noticed that you deleted very quickly as a second thought...... I just like to get to the bottom of things that's all. You see, again you have had a wee go at me and I may have brought out your true nature, but as you say good bye and good luck, and please try to be a bit more upfront, the "secret" ploy has been around for some time and doesn't work on me, and a few others I know...
God luck in your Aiki IP a new style? who knows.....?
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Old 06-12-2011, 06:59 PM   #45
graham christian
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Basics, Basics, Basics.

1.Advertising something to attract others to buy.=Marketing.

2.Advertising showing something to be superior in quality or of greater worth=Promotions.

3. Communicating to show how great and successful your product is and how bad the others are=PR.

4. Openly talking about the ins and outs of what you do and comparing and sharing such with others who do the same=FORUM.

Regards.G.
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Old 06-12-2011, 08:58 PM   #46
stan baker
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

It is amazing how much time is wasted in speculation.If you want experience high level internal and aiki then go see for yourself. This is what real martial art folks have always done.Stop whining and check out the few good people out there.If one does that you will discover what Dan is saying is true.

stan
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Old 06-12-2011, 10:01 PM   #47
phitruong
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Erick Mead wrote: View Post
I always like to think he looked at each of those in front and wrote their chief sin on the ground in front of them.

Whether one believes or not -- it is a very serious point about words and manner taking center when dealing with violence.
i thought most of them were illiterate so they would have stop and scratched their heads and said "Huh??"

i kinda preferred "superior fire power" when taking center. it really is a model for peace and harmony.
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Old 06-13-2011, 02:31 PM   #48
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
i thought most of them were illiterate so they would have stop and scratched their heads and said "Huh??"

i kinda preferred "superior fire power" when taking center. it really is a model for peace and harmony.
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Old 06-13-2011, 03:48 PM   #49
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Stan Baker wrote: View Post
It is amazing how much time is wasted in speculation.If you want experience high level internal and aiki then go see for yourself. This is what real martial art folks have always done.Stop whining and check out the few good people out there.If one does that you will discover what Dan is saying is true.

stan
You would do Stan as "disciples" often do, fine from a loyalty point of view, but we only have your word and a few others on this site that have been seduced by his charms, yet we still have no information on Dan other than his own and his own "fans"..... Which is producing nothing I keep asking who are Dans teachers as he was shown this also, yet we can find no reference to them. He openly admits this....
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Old 06-13-2011, 05:54 PM   #50
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
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Re: Basics, basics, basics

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
... we only have your word and a few others on this site that have been seduced by his charms, yet we still have no information on Dan other than his own and his own "fans".....
316 Students who trained at my dojo.
762 Seminar attendees.
All seduced by my charms? This just gets better and better. I have to tell Bill this tomorrow. Maybe, I'll blow him a kiss, and then run!

Add Ark
Add Mike
Add the Japanese Shihans (one, a life long friend of doshu) going outside the art to learn the same stuff.
Add Ikeda going to two different people, both outside the art,
Add a host of 5th dans, 4th dans, and students of various rank-mostly yudansha- from a variety of arts...
All going outside the art to learn the same stuff

You have to-by sheer logic- now address all of these others who are all going outside of aikido to find the same stuff.

Care to explain to all of us:
1.How did this disparate group of Aikido, Karate, Chinese, and MMA students and teachers from different continents all got together with men
who
2. Themselves don't even know each other ..
to
3. Learn a related body of work they some how magically know
and
4. All these teachers.... got conned together?

Your logic falls flat on it's face.

Try this
Dear Mr. Shihan or teacher of 35 years. You don't get it and I don't think you have the brains or judgment to see that all of this is and was in Aikido. I already know all of this stuff. And since you yourself are now teaching some of the new stuff you are learning outside of the art and openly discussing that it came from outside the art as well. I think you too have become a con artist, huckster and snake oil salesman.
Tony Wagstaffe


Try addressing that to Ikeda or any of the other teachers from Biranki to Aikikai to ASU. See how much traction you get out of that ill conceived logic.

Dan
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