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Old 06-02-2011, 11:52 AM   #1
Marie Noelle Fequiere
 
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Casualty of nikyo

Sensei is out of town these days. Yesterday, two black belts were filling in for him. We were only two students to show up for class, so each black belt took one under his wings.
My instructor is not much bigger than me, but very strong. We were working on nikyo. He was firmly holding my left hand against his shoulder with one hand and was manipulating it with his other hand, talking and explaining something to me. I was already almost kneeling, but the pain was bearable, and I was listening to his explanations. Suddenly, he pressed his thumb on the back of my hand, like you do in a kotegaeshi. He was talking, I was listening, and, suddenly, we both heard: KAP!
Of course, he let go immediately. I was in pain, but not too much. He quickly showed me that he was sorry, and I quickly showed him that I was alright. The class ended soon after that, and, when I made it home, the back of my hand was swelling. I could no longer make a fist, and I noticed that it was my index and middle fingers that could not curl. The other fingers are ok. I can also bend them all backward with no problem. The pain had also intensified. So I applied Ben Gay and slept with an old sock over my hand. This morning, the swelling is less localized, but it has spread over the back of my hand. The pain is also less severe. I can curl my index and middle fingers farther, but I do not want to force them.
The thing is, I really hate going to the doctor, although this is what I always advise everybody to do at the slightest problem. My hand is feeling better, anyway, I can type with just a little pain, and I use my hand with caution.
Any advice on how to speed my recovery? As I see it, there will be no katame waza for my left hand and no push ups for me for a while.
I have small and weak arms and hands, and I really need to exercise them.
Thanks in advance to you all.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:44 PM   #2
Alberto_Italiano
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

Tendon injury - by which I don't mean an inflammation, but probably a lesion, maybe it got partially or totally borken (if finger functionality is impaired, the lesion is very likely) go to the doc asap, because if you won't repair a possibile tendon injury within 48 hours, i am unsure whether you can do it ever again...

So, whatever you're doing no, you're doing the wrong thing. To the doc, my friend . or the ER: now - not in a lil while

Only a scan may ascertain whether there is an injury indeed, but as said a tendon is something capricious that, if lesioned, needs immediate action.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:45 PM   #3
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

ummm... seriously. Go to a Dr. What you heard very well may have been something getting really damaged. My guess would be a torn tendon or ligament. If it does not heal properly it could mean a lot of trouble for you in the future.
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:46 PM   #4
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

RICE is probably the answer: Rest, Ice, Compression, Elevation.

Good luck! Heal fast!

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 06-02-2011, 12:52 PM   #5
Alberto_Italiano
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

ps: if they decide to intervene, DEMAND the surgery room. No quick surgeries within a ward. Tell them that if they operate in the ward because they want to make even just a preliminary surgical inspection to determine whether you need the surgery room, and as a consequence of that surgical inspection in a space that is not sterile you get an infection (which may be devastating: ward infections are terrible because bacterias there are often drug resistant strains), you're going to sue them...

I know what I am talking about, in this case, unfortunately.

Last edited by Alberto_Italiano : 06-02-2011 at 12:56 PM.
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:31 PM   #6
Marc Abrams
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

Alberto is likely correct. A torn or partially torn tendon needs to be assessed ASAP. Go to the ER and demand that an orthopedic surgeon evaluate you. If a surgical re-attachment is necessary, find the BEST sports medicine hand doctor to do it as soon as possible. Good Luck!

By the way, I have issues with what the black belt was doing to you. We can always look at that later. That person is largely responsible for the injury.

Marc Abrams
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Old 06-02-2011, 01:53 PM   #7
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

I know it's not what you want to hear, but I have to agree with everyone else here: you do need to see a doctor, if at all possible!

Pauliina
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:01 PM   #8
Cliff Judge
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

When an injury causes you to suddenly lose the ability to move a joint you should go to see a doctor as soon as possible.
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Old 06-02-2011, 02:28 PM   #9
Marie Noelle Fequiere
 
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

You guys are seriously panicking me!
Alright, I called my orthopedist - the one who fixed my wrist when I broke it during a karate class. I explained, and I insisted that I feel better. He insists that something that goes KAP! is something that gave, and he wants me in his office tomorrow morning. He doesn't seem happy that I waited that long to call him, either.
If he talks about surgery, I will faint.
Thank you all for your advice, I will keep you updated.
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:14 PM   #10
Diana Frese
Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

When anyone, especially Marianne, a former student, (more like a kohai in my opinion...) asks for advice, I can usually find her answer in something she herself said. She calls me the "spin doctor" because I usually manage to put a positive spin on things. So here goes my attempt ....

So.... you like katame waza, you like push ups, so that's why you're going to the doctor tomorrow and if there is surgery (personally I'm scared of it but you all have convinced me that if ever I need it, I should get it....)

You'll get it, because you like katame waza and push ups... For the future, think of the future.... We're your friends and we're "rooting for you" as we say here in the US. And, see, how many different countries have already answered and are friends too...
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:22 PM   #11
Janet Rosen
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

I have had tendons rupture. You do not want to delay evaluation if this has been a possibility.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 06-02-2011, 06:44 PM   #12
RED
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

GOOD, Please see that Doctor. Tendon injuries typically hurt bad when they first happen, but once the damage is done the pain lessens. But the damage is done, don't let the feeling of getting better fool you. Listen to the doctor and make sure nothing was torn.

MM
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Old 06-03-2011, 11:10 AM   #13
Marie Noelle Fequiere
 
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

Thank you so much for caring to you all, my friends. And I am pleased to be here this morning - it's noon right now in Haiti - with good news!
I am just out of the doctor's office. Upon examination, he quickly reassured me that surgery would not be necessary. Yipee!
Also, the x ray showed nothing is broken nor torn beyond hope.
What was this KAP! about then? He did not offer an explanation, probably because he wants me in his office every time a KAP! happens.
So he sent me off to the drugstore for some pills for the inflammation and a cool stuff I had never heard of before, it's called Stopain, and it comes in a roll on bottle.
He wants to see me in a week, and no, no Aikido before he gives me the green light. I did not tell him that I can still go to class, I will just notify Sensei that I can be uke only if my right hand is involved. My left is off limit for a few days.
It's still swollen, but I can almost close my fist now.
Thank you again to you all, and relax, I will be fine!
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Old 06-03-2011, 03:59 PM   #14
Janet Rosen
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

Noelle I am so glad you didn't break or rupture anything. But I wish you wouldnt train. As uke what happens if something happens and you have to use that hand to save yourself or steady yourself? How can you do technique as nage without using that hand?

Janet Rosen
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Old 06-03-2011, 09:09 PM   #15
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

I'm glad it's not serious but Janet is right you should really listen to your Dr. I know how hard it is to sit out but it's really better to let it heal right now rather then spend a lot more time off the mat later.

I had to sit out for a month last fall due to a knee injury. I hated it but I did what was best for my long term aikido future instead of looking for the short term gratification. I actually found that sitting and watching the classes gave me a lot of really good information that I would not have gotten if I had been training. It ended up being a good learning experience for me. If your sensei is as sensible as mine he won't allow you to train if your Dr has not cleared you. As he said. We want you here for the next 20 years so let it heal. Aikido isn't going anywhere.
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Old 06-04-2011, 03:15 AM   #16
Michael Varin
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

Marie,

Glad to hear you've had a positive outcome so far.

You know, this thread got me thinking. In just over twelve years of aikido training, I have not injured anyone beyond a bruise or minor abrasion.

I'm proud of that!

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 06-04-2011, 09:42 AM   #17
Marie Noelle Fequiere
 
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

Janet and Cherie have a point, I have to admit. But I see a few students training with "bad" shoulders, or "bad" elbows. They find a way around it. Sensei himself has a bad shoulder, he avoids using it when demonstrating a technique for the class.
I will give it a try. I will wear a bandage more for reminding both me and my partners to be careful with this hand. If I cannot find a way, I will sit and watch, I promise.
Congratulations, Michael, for your accomplishment. Really, it is. It reminds me of a funny incident during my Karate days. I was just an eight kyu, and I was working on a self defense move with another student, a sweet and shy kid who was no more than about fourteen years old. Sensei was watching. I did the technique, I brought the kid down, and Sensei said that it was good, but I needed to go a bit softer. The kid said nothing, he got back on his feet and the class resumed.
I never saw him again on the mat.
Years later, I was visiting my best friend, and her son was chatting with his own friends. One of them saw me, and his eyes became wide. I later learned that he told my friend's son that I was this scary lady who hurt him one day during a Karate class, so he never went back. I had completely forgotten the incident, and I could not believe he kid had recognized me after all this time.
So, yes, Michael you can be proud of yourself!
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Old 06-04-2011, 11:53 AM   #18
Janet Rosen
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

I train with a bad knee and bad thumbs because they are chronic disabilities. That's a whole lot different than trying to function with an acute injury. Whatever - just people who have been there sharing their own cautionary tales; you're a grown up so do what feels tight and good luck.

Janet Rosen
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Old 06-04-2011, 08:51 PM   #19
Shadowfax
 
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

I have bad knees and have to be mindful of them when I train. In fact I do very little shikko or swari waza because I don't want to make already chronic old injuries worse. But training while being mindful of an old injury that has healed ,as much as it is going to, is really not the same as training with an active unhealed injury. Doing so is what leads to the chronic injuries that one must always be careful of and which will limit you for the rest of your life.
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Old 06-06-2011, 01:11 PM   #20
Marie Noelle Fequiere
 
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Re: Casualty of nikyo

I went to class yesterday, and I do not regret it. Sensei is back, and we had a very basic class, with emphasis on foot work, apo rundo, irimi.There was no katame waza. As I promised, I wore an bandage.
My hand is better, I thank you all for your concern, but I am not as reckless as I might seem.
When I broke my wrist during a Karate class a few years ago, my doctor fitted me with a horrible apparatus that was screwed directly into my bones (how do you call that in english?) and instructed me to stay away from the mat for a while. Well, I still went to class. I could mot make a fist, but I practiced my kihon and my kata with absolutely no problem. Of course, sparring was out of the question! But I did not have to sit miserably, watching everybody else train and have fun. And my wrist healed just fine.
My hand is better, I swear.
Now, I would like to thank everybody again for their help and support, and please, stop worrying, my injury was not as serious as it seemed at first, and I will be fine.
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