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Old 05-13-2011, 12:45 PM   #26
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Kotegaeshi: hand or wrist?

Interesting...so middle finger in the wrist crease being a and pinkie being b?
To anyone: what are the pluses and minuses between these two? I understand if everything else (structure) is solid enough it's probably somewhat moot, but I'm curious about different folks interpretations. I've been taught version b, for the record, which seems like it would potentially affect more bend to the wrist due to the palm being centered more on the back of aite's hand...but that's just my guess. Coincidentally, we seem to also really enjoy the index-finger "button" with the other hand for kotegaeshi...at least, the last few times I practiced it that's how we were working the technique.
Take care,
Matt

Last edited by mathewjgano : 05-13-2011 at 12:47 PM.
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Old 05-13-2011, 01:04 PM   #27
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Kotegaeshi: hand or wrist?

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Interesting...so middle finger in the wrist crease being a and pinkie being b?
To anyone: what are the pluses and minuses between these two? I understand if everything else (structure) is solid enough it's probably somewhat moot, but I'm curious about different folks interpretations. I've been taught version b, for the record, which seems like it would potentially affect more bend to the wrist due to the palm being centered more on the back of aite's hand...but that's just my guess. Coincidentally, we seem to also really enjoy the index-finger "button" with the other hand for kotegaeshi...at least, the last few times I practiced it that's how we were working the technique.
Take care,
Matt
...sigh...
Just read ealier on...um...I guess what I meant to say was...er...any more thoughts? Too much coffee; not enough...oh hey shiney!
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Old 09-29-2011, 07:18 AM   #28
Commander13CnC3
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Re: Kotegaeshi: hand or wrist?

Quote:
Reuben Yap wrote: View Post
The way that I find works for me is to ensure that the opponent is overextended so that his balance is broken already before applying the kote-gaeshi so that you aren't just relying on the wrist-turn (and is generally less painful). Trying to kote-gaeshi someone with a strong wrist in a balanced position is risky. Just my 2 cents.
Our dojo seems to rely upon this heavily, and many (including myself) are building resistance to static kote-gaeshi, enough so that you can almost walk out of it.
I say thumb in between pinky-ring finger knuckles and other fingers wrapped tightly around meat of the hand with a dynamic technique is the best way for this technique.

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Old 09-29-2011, 07:31 AM   #29
Tim Ruijs
 
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Re: Kotegaeshi: hand or wrist?

why is google-fu better than ya-hoo? ...sorry...

The position of hands in a) is better. You should be able to control aite easily this way. Your other hand can be used for atemi.

In a real fight:
* If you make a bad decision, you die.
* If you don't decide anything, you die.
Aikido teaches you how to decide.
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Old 09-29-2011, 08:07 AM   #30
ewolput
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Re: Kotegaeshi: hand or wrist?

in Tomiki's Aikido when we talk about kote gaeshi we also have to talk about kote hineri. Kote gaeshi is bringing the body into a backward kuzushi position, kote hineri is a forward kuzushi position. For us, kote geashi and kote hineri are not throws, but movements to create kuzushi, and after kuzushi we can apply nage-waza, katame-waza, kansetsu waza or atemi waza (as a throw).
Kote gaeshi and kote hineri are movements with a chain reaction in the body. Doing kote gaeshi alone on the "kote" is not practical and can be countered very easy. Without kuzushi no throw or other technique.
This we know from doing randori.

Just a Tomiki view.

Eddy
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Old 09-29-2011, 10:26 AM   #31
Janet Rosen
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Re: Kotegaeshi: hand or wrist?

Eddie, I have never had a chance to visit a Tomiki dojo (someday!) but I agree that the grip is less important than the kuzushi.
When my thumb arthritis acts up, I can't do anything resembling a "proper" kotegaishe grip. So what? I grab uke's forearm near the wrist and go from there.

Janet Rosen
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Old 09-29-2011, 12:47 PM   #32
Basia Halliop
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Re: Kotegaeshi: hand or wrist?

Last spring I sprained my thumb and for a little while I wore a brace that also immobilized my wrist. I trained a bit with it, and I found that plenty of people had no problem doing kotegaeshi on me.
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Old 09-29-2011, 09:54 PM   #33
kewms
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Re: Kotegaeshi: hand or wrist?

It's not about the wrist. One of our regular visitors is missing most of one arm below the elbow. Kotegaeshi works fine on him, provided kuzushi is achieved.

That said, the "ideal" kotegaeshi as I was taught places the pinky in the crease of the wrist. Plenty of perfectly legitimate variations exist, though, depending both on relative hand sizes and on where nage's grip happens to land.

Katherine
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