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Old 05-02-2011, 03:38 PM   #26
chillzATL
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
"The approach between the two was actually a marketing maneuver planned by the agent of Anderson, Jorge Joinha, to give more visibility to it's champion in the American media. The plan worked very well in the first stage, the problem was in the wrong dose and reached the absurdity of assigning a brilliant victory by the biggest name in the MMA of all time to a "Master of Hollywood" who never climbed in the ring.
Unless you've got some proof from Silva or Joinha backing that up, then it's just a claim by someone else who has less credibility than the people making the original claim.
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Old 05-02-2011, 03:50 PM   #27
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

BTW, Joinha is both Anderson and Lyoto agent.

Ed.

Silva denies he learned the front kick he used in UFC 126 from Seagal:

http://artesuavebelem.blogspot.com/2...res.html#links

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 05-02-2011 at 04:04 PM. Reason: link
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:02 PM   #28
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
"The approach between the two was actually a marketing maneuver planned by the agent of Anderson, Jorge Joinha, to give more visibility to it's champion in the American media. The plan worked very well in the first stage, the problem was in the wrong dose and reached the absurdity of assigning a brilliant victory by the biggest name in the MMA of all time to a "Master of Hollywood" who never climbed in the ring.
The thing I don't get is how "the biggest name in MMA of all time" would need additional marketing by working with a guy few people in MMA take very seriously. If he's the biggest name of all time, he's about as marketable as it gets isn't he? Of course that doesn't mean he didn't want extra publicity anyway. That said, if he didn't want people to ascribe any credit to Segal, he probably shouldn't have shot a video of them working together...particularly considering Segal's "Hollywood" reputation.

Quote:
So, that's cleared that up. Segal didn't teach Anderson his fight-finishing kick (which, incidentally, Anderson used on Dan Henderson and Lee Murray and also featured in an instructional he produced TWO YEARS AGO).
This seems to have escaped the notice of Mr Segal himself who has given numerous interviews detailing his "pride" in Anderson's winning technique. He is either deluded or putting in the performance of his acting career.
Per the one interview I saw (in this thread) Segal makes no such claims of teaching him the front kick. He describes working on it with Silva. He may well have done little to nothing to help Silva for all I know, but if he believes he did, expressing pride seems pretty normal. I thought he was very clear that he believes he just helped out with his area of experience (Aikido), but maybe in other interviews he took too much credit.
...Interesting about the agent being for both, though...
Maybe Segal got used a little...turnabout is fair play no?

Last edited by mathewjgano : 05-02-2011 at 04:07 PM.
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:11 PM   #29
Michael Hackett
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

In reading this thread, something came to me. If this was a marketing ploy then it worked. Here we are debating the truth of the matter, but talking about them nevertheless. And this is only one site.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:11 PM   #30
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Seagal teaching "the deadly" to Machida:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NaDGBFB4ZOA

Machida interview:

Q: E de onde você tirou esse chute? Você tinha treinado?

A: Esse chute existe no Caratê, é o Kanku Dai. Quando iniciei a preparação, logo após a cirurgia da hérnia, a minha preparação estava um pouco limitada, então meu pai (Yoshizo) me passou alguns chutes para treinar, e falou para usar nos sparrings às vezes, mas sempre com muito cuidado porque esse é um chute que machuca, é como uma cotovelada. Quando cheguei ao Canadá me encontrei com o Steven Seagal e ele falou "Lyoto, esse chute vai entrar". Mas eu não estava preocupado em fazer ou não, se pintasse a oportunidade eu ia fazer. Vim mais relaxado para o segundo round, soltei o chute e ele encaixou. Não foi nada "do nada".

http://www.tatame.com.br/2011/05/01/Lyoto-Machida

Silva interview (with video):
http://www.tatame.com.br/2011/02/23/...om-os-melhores

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 05-02-2011 at 04:13 PM. Reason: links
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:12 PM   #31
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
BTW, Joinha is both Anderson and Lyoto agent.

Ed.

Silva denies he learned the front kick he used in UFC 126 from Seagal:

http://artesuavebelem.blogspot.com/2...res.html#links
That link only confirms what most everyone has been saying, that Seagal encouraged them to use the front kick in a more decisive manner. Why is this so difficult for people to accept?
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Old 05-02-2011, 04:21 PM   #32
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

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Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
That link only confirms what most everyone has been saying, that Seagal encouraged them to use the front kick in a more decisive manner. Why is this so difficult for people to accept?
Encouragement to use a technique and teaching how to do a technique is not the same thing.

Seagal claimed teaching the kick to Silva and Lyoto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcNgrp2Ftew

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 05-02-2011 at 04:34 PM. Reason: link
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Old 05-02-2011, 05:27 PM   #33
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Encouragement to use a technique and teaching how to do a technique is not the same thing.

Seagal claimed teaching the kick to Silva and Lyoto:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UcNgrp2Ftew
And the interviewer begins by saying "...Anderson after the fight said that he learned that front kick to the face from you..." Perhaps the interviewer misquoted Silva?
...Though Segal does mention "creating" it. Poor choice in words considering his other statement maybe.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 05-02-2011 at 05:36 PM.
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Old 05-02-2011, 06:19 PM   #34
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Probably another marketing manoeuver like Seagal teaching Silva for UFC 126.
After reading and and watching a few of the vids you posted. I would have to say it's more like spilled milk on your part. The fact is Silva and Michida worked with Seagal Sensei to expand and perhaps improve their technique. To say that this is some "conspiracy of marketing" is specious at best. MMA is a business true but the business is not in the driver's seat. Winning is...and had they lost and stated the reason they lost was because of what they were "taught" by Seagal Sensei Then I am sure we might be having a different (or depending on one's bias... the same old) debate.

“As always, victory finds a hundred fathers but defeat is an orphan” -Count Ciano

William Hazen

Last edited by Aikibu : 05-02-2011 at 06:26 PM.
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Old 05-02-2011, 07:37 PM   #35
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
After reading and and watching a few of the vids you posted. I would have to say it's more like spilled milk on your part.
Let's say my Portuguese (me being native Galician speaker, living at 35 km from Portugal and dealing with a native brazilian BJJ instructor) is better than yours until otherwise proven.

If you want to say Silva and Machida are lying in the interviews they gave to brazilian press when they say Seagal did not taught them "the kick"(because that is what they are saying) and Marcelo Alonso (editor of Tatame Mag.) is also lying when he says Seagal training Silva and Machida was a marketing ploy organized by Joinha that went out of hand... whatever floats your boat.
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Old 05-02-2011, 09:19 PM   #36
Aikibu
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Let's say my Portuguese (me being native Galician speaker, living at 35 km from Portugal and dealing with a native brazilian BJJ instructor) is better than yours until otherwise proven.

If you want to say Silva and Machida are lying in the interviews they gave to brazilian press when they say Seagal did not taught them "the kick"(because that is what they are saying) and Marcelo Alonso (editor of Tatame Mag.) is also lying when he says Seagal training Silva and Machida was a marketing ploy organized by Joinha that went out of hand... whatever floats your boat.
So how much do you think Michida was paid to thank Seagal during his post fight interview with Joe Roggin? And what about the vids of Seagal training with them both are all of them "fake"? LOL

I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the "spin" between both Joinha and Alonso.

Lying about success, abilities, and achievements!??!! Unheard of in the Martial Arts "Business"!

William Hazen
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Old 05-03-2011, 04:07 AM   #37
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

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William Hazen wrote: View Post
So how much do you think Michida was paid to thank Seagal during his post fight interview with Joe Roggin? And what about the vids of Seagal training with them both are all of them "fake"? LOL

I suspect the truth lies somewhere in the middle of the "spin" between both Joinha and Alonso.

Lying about success, abilities, and achievements!??!! Unheard of in the Martial Arts "Business"!

William Hazen
Especially in aikido......
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Old 05-03-2011, 06:07 AM   #38
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Lying about success, abilities, and achievements!??!! Unheard of in the Martial Arts "Business"!
We all know Seagal is totally uncapable of exaggerating. Damned third world tanned skin speedo wearing brazilians. How dare they to spread doubts about the greatest aikido master ever honesty.
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Old 05-03-2011, 10:26 AM   #39
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
We all know Seagal is totally uncapable of exaggerating. Damned third world tanned skin speedo wearing brazilians. How dare they to spread doubts about the greatest aikido master ever honesty.
Didn't he say he was god or was that a misquotation....?
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:25 AM   #40
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Let's say my Portuguese (me being native Galician speaker, living at 35 km from Portugal and dealing with a native brazilian BJJ instructor) is better than yours until otherwise proven.

If you want to say Silva and Machida are lying in the interviews they gave to brazilian press when they say Seagal did not taught them "the kick"(because that is what they are saying) and Marcelo Alonso (editor of Tatame Mag.) is also lying when he says Seagal training Silva and Machida was a marketing ploy organized by Joinha that went out of hand... whatever floats your boat.
Demetrio, you seem to be choosing to ignore the subtleties of language to favor your position. Silva, through his translator, used the word taught after his fight, but he obviously didn't mean to say Seagal TAUGHT him the kick. Seagal used the word as well, but in later videos (after machida's fight) clearly said that he didn't "teach" anyone the front kick. Machida and Silva, after the fact, both still gave Seagal credit for encouraging them to use the kick. So I think we've resolved that and can move on.

As for the guy saying it was a marketing ploy, where's the proof? Silva and Machida don't seem to be upset about it and I'm not sure what benefit they perceived there would be in this ploy.
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Old 05-03-2011, 11:41 AM   #41
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

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Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
Demetrio, you seem to be choosing to ignore the subtleties of language to favor your position.
No, what I'm doing is providing the original and untranslated interviews with Silva and Machida andthe brazilian press articles.

Exercising power as translator is not my cup of tea.

My position is: listen to and read the original sources, then draw your own conclusions.
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Old 05-03-2011, 02:48 PM   #42
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
No, what I'm doing is providing the original and untranslated interviews with Silva and Machida andthe brazilian press articles.

Exercising power as translator is not my cup of tea.

My position is: listen to and read the original sources, then draw your own conclusions.
Thank You for providing them. I have... and came to the same conclusion as Jason. Hence my opinion.

William Hazen
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Old 05-05-2011, 05:32 AM   #43
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

just my two cents but I seem to remember working out how to apply much the same front kick not too long after learning how to balance on one foot I was about 5 years old. I think i worked it out when some one threw a football at me and i kicked it instinctively. throwing a leg straight out in front of you is a totally instinctive thing for most people, generating power may be taught but again most kids work that out too to some extent. the whole discussion seems pretty pointless really. it would be different if Machida had pulled off a specific aikido technique he simply applied (well)a very basic kick imo. no one should be taking any credit for teaching it really.
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Old 05-06-2011, 09:43 AM   #44
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Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Let's say my Portuguese (me being native Galician speaker, living at 35 km from Portugal and dealing with a native brazilian BJJ instructor) is better than yours until otherwise proven.

If you want to say Silva and Machida are lying in the interviews they gave to brazilian press when they say Seagal did not taught them "the kick"(because that is what they are saying) and Marcelo Alonso (editor of Tatame Mag.) is also lying when he says Seagal training Silva and Machida was a marketing ploy organized by Joinha that went out of hand... whatever floats your boat.
I do remember seeing on MMA Live that Seagal sensei was given credit for teaching them. Now whether that means teaching them the complete technique or simply refining it I do not know. Given Seagal sensei's ability, that he has been practicing martial arts longer than those guys have been upright and breathing so he just may have something to offer, and that MMA Live has always been very reputable I would tend to give Seagal sensei the benefit of the doubt.

I mean really, out in the main stream I would assert that a lot more people know who Seagal sensei is than any MMA competitor by a wide margin should be fairly obvious. In addition, I am sure there would be no competition if bank accounts were compared so I don't belive Seagal sensei would have that much to gain by not being truthful.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:14 AM   #45
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=197MTYn4nW4

Machida on "the kick" (starting at 1:15)

http://www.sherdog.com/news/news/Sea...chniques-32108

Seagal on training Silva, Machida and more to come.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 05-06-2011 at 10:21 AM.
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Old 05-06-2011, 10:35 PM   #46
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The MMA world does not take Aikido seriously for the most part. I, for one, think it's pretty great! The fact that it's Seagal that they're having to give credit to is possibly the most ironic scenario possible
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Old 05-07-2011, 04:28 AM   #47
Shany
 
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

So seagal is now teaching unseen techniques from Karate? WTF?!

A good stance and posture reflects a proper state of mind
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Old 05-07-2011, 10:00 AM   #48
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Ki Symbol Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Shany Golan wrote: View Post
So seagal is now teaching unseen techniques from Karate? WTF?!
I have not heard that the technique/techniques were "unseen" per se. Also, Seagal sensei, I believe, received a shodan in karate from Fumio Demura.
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Old 05-08-2011, 08:39 PM   #49
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Dear Mr. Seagal,
Thankyou for again bringing more students to the dojo. It seems like only yesterday that you were releasing cinema blockbusters that brought a veritable flood of students to our dojos. But the last few years in between have been a bit quiet. The widening of the genre to feature native american values, environmental issues, just guns or perhaps only a single technique was perhaps missed by the mainstream population. So we welcomed Lawman in eager anticipation and held firm in the belief that there would something special coming soon. Domo arigato

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Old 05-10-2011, 04:46 AM   #50
Maarten De Queecker
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Re: Steven Seagal's Impact on MMA?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Didn't he say he was god or was that a misquotation....?
A misinterpretation, rather. A quote taken entirely out of context and used to make fun of Seagal. Go watch that video again, now in its entirerity and while paying attention to everything Seagal said.

I'm not saying this because I'm a Seagal fan, I'm saying this because I can't stand people making fun of others basted on information taken out of context.
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