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Old 04-23-2011, 08:00 PM   #26
Tenyu
Dojo: Aikibodo
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Re: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
Well that's an interesting point. But, in aikido part of our process is to relinquish an ego-based point of view, so shouldn't the head just be considered another appendage? In other words any psychological issues with that throw reveal where progress needs to be made? Just a thought. Of course the safety is still my main concern.
Not only does nage have no need to grab uke's head or neck, from a purely technical perspective it's the most inefficient and ineffective way to practice non-lethal Aikido. Monty and Matthew mentioned it's popular with ego-pandering WWF because it simulates and satiates a representation of lethal violence. O Sensei didn't randomly exclude kubinage from his training. There's no separation between nage and uke. Whatever disrespect nage gives uke, nage gives himself. Progress happens when violence or violent representations are no longer normalized or justified. Our society, our culture, our language is filled with violence, but that's precisely why we're in this mess(reference to recent discussions in open topics forum nuclear thread).
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Old 04-24-2011, 01:55 AM   #27
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

Quote:
Monty Collier wrote: View Post
An old timer told me this was the old snap mare takeover. He said he learned it at the boys club back in the 1950's.
Is he right???

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C3o5Mxly2OY

Watch that vicious ear-pull finisher at the 2:40 mark!
Ouch!!!

Oh, there's a head plant at the 5:40 mark!!!
Maybe this can be dangerous in the wrong hands!!!
Look at that guys face!
Good thing he got tossed on a spring loaded floor.

At the 6:20 mark there's a mysterious masked man!
Anyone train with a mask at their dojo?
What if your sensei started wearing a pro-wrestling mask?
How cool would that be?
Hi All,
Kendo Nagasaki ???Is this the masked assassin?Joe.
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Old 04-24-2011, 07:32 PM   #28
Basia Halliop
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Re: YouTube: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

Quote:
Not only does nage have no need to grab uke's head or neck, from a purely technical perspective it's the most inefficient and ineffective way to practice non-lethal Aikido. Monty and Matthew mentioned it's popular with ego-pandering WWF because it simulates and satiates a representation of lethal violence. O Sensei didn't randomly exclude kubinage from his training. There's no separation between nage and uke. Whatever disrespect nage gives uke, nage gives himself. Progress happens when violence or violent representations are no longer normalized or justified. Our society, our culture, our language is filled with violence, but that's precisely why we're in this mess(reference to recent discussions in open topics forum nuclear thread).
I'm not sure I understand. Do you believe that head throws are literally more dangerous and more likely to cause serious injury or death than other Aikido techniques? Or are you saying that they look more violent and feel more violent and should be discouraged for that reason?
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Old 04-24-2011, 08:16 PM   #29
JW
 
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Re: YouTube: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

I think an aikidoka should be able to think of kubi nage without getting stuck in psychological issues. It's just a throw, and we shouldn't have weird machismo attached to it.

I'm talking from the point of view that the head is the tip of our body structure. One reason the throw is cool and interesting is that you are latching onto the free end of the uke's vertical column. The 2 bodies integrating and twisting together (which is the real nature of all our throws) is so plainly demonstrated in this throw. That's kind of nice.

I think it would be great in class to highlight the kind of safety concern and involvement that this throw demands, and to be sure that we can do this together without getting all macho (from nage's end) or upset (from uke's end).

I mean, we do it every class with all the other throws we practice-- we are doing "nice" versions of things that are supposed to land the attacker on his head to hurt/kill. We let them roll instead, and in kubi nage we take care of them too.
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Old 04-26-2011, 01:40 PM   #30
sorokod
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Re: YouTube: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

Another way to "set it up" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NIJDj7rPDoM Not something to be practised in the general class I think.

Last edited by sorokod : 04-26-2011 at 01:43 PM.

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Old 04-26-2011, 03:58 PM   #31
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Re: YouTube: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

Landing is not a problem, taking off is.

Here is another one in similar spirit: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=21y32ASY3Sw&t=29s

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Old 04-27-2011, 08:39 AM   #32
sorokod
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Re: YouTube: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

I also think that these throws bring into sharp focus the subject of "resisting a technique". It is obvious that in these cases "resistance" is very, very dangerous and will probably cause severe damage to the uke. The choice that faces the uke is to resist and be hurt or to blend and hope to reverse latter on or escape.
This, it seems to me, provides the rational for cooperation which is rooted in completely self serving motivation and makes good martial sense.

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Old 04-27-2011, 10:09 AM   #33
JW
 
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Re: YouTube: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
I also think that these throws bring into sharp focus the subject of "resisting a technique". It is obvious that in these cases "resistance" is very, very dangerous and will probably cause severe damage to the uke. The choice that faces the uke is to resist and be hurt or to blend and hope to reverse latter on or escape.
I think that's right on, from uke's point of view.
From nage's perspective, there is also though the idea of forcing a throw you "want" rather than letting it happen because you are actually getting it.
The videos show kata training, where uke is giving this throw to nage. We can learn the motions this way.

But in randori, if you "try" to do things they often don't work out. If there is kuzushi and the head is moving forward, that's one thing. But "I want to do kubi nage" could be a really bad thought for nage.. it should happen honestly, otherwise it could be quite dangerous. I'm thinking about yanking here, not the landing, as has been mentioned.
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Old 04-27-2011, 10:21 AM   #34
sorokod
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Re: YouTube: Neat ways to set up Kubinage...

I am thinking that every technique (not just kubi nage) should be done with this kind of quality i.e.: resistance makes no martial sense.

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