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Old 01-16-2011, 06:29 AM   #201
Josh Reyer
 
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
In English the statements of general principle I made about budo and bujutsu do not imply that there could never be any exceptions.
Actually, the bujutsu ryuha that did not engage in free practice were probably the exceptions. The majority of kenjutsu ryuha in the Edo period were favorably disposed to shiai, which is why they were lost; they became subsumed in the late-Edo period popularity of what is now modern kendo. Many jujutsu ryuha were similarly subsumed by judo in the Meiji period. Even among the kenjutsu ryuha that survive today, virtually all of them doing so because they were the most conservative of ryuha, you had Nen-ryu, Shinkage-ryu, Jikishinkage-ryu, and Niten Ichi-ryu actively practicing shiai, even though they placed greater importance on kata than other, now lost, ryuha. I think it's a mistake to extrapolate too much from the classical ryuha that still exist. In a sense, the conservatism that helped them survive to modern day make them poor representations of "typical" ryuha of the Edo period.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:27 AM   #202
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Thanks, Josh, that's very interesting. Free practice isn't something you would usually associate with koryu. What I actually said was 'without matches and competition' and I meant those in the normal sense we apply to gendai budo. Do you have any comments about nuances in the Japanese phrases masakatsu agatsu or kokkishin? Thanks, Niall

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
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Old 01-16-2011, 06:15 PM   #203
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
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Thanks Demetrio. I appreciate all your comments and the trouble you went to. There is a danger though in getting absorbed with details and missing the main points as a result. Of course the details must be accurate but please don't forget to consider the thesis.
I didn't forget the thesis: "For hundreds of years people have studied budo and bujutsu without matches and competition. They are learned by studying basic movements and kata - stylized forms." and what this implies regarding O Sensei banning 試合

You are using exceptions (ryuha whose training was kata only based) as if they were the rule. There are also numerous accounts of matches and competitions in Edo and Meiji eras. As this should be in the "non aikido martial traditions", and not wanting to break the rules, I'll stop here.

BTW, I've checked Prof. Friday's "Legacies of the Sword", the pages I was referring to are 100-119. Would you mind to read it and tell me where he is wrong, Same for Ellis' "Old School" and Guttman & Thompson "Japanese Sports: A History". Thanks in advance.

Quote:
Minor is an accurate description of competition aikido
You mean "not very important or valuable" or "small in number, quantity, or extent" or "not very serious"?

Quote:
Traditional and purist are also accurate terms. They are not loaded.
No, they arne't accurate and yes, they are.loaded

Quote:
But that detail is not relevant to the point that Tomiki Sensei took his judo Weltanschauung and imposed it on his aikido.
Dilthey much?

Quote:
kokkishin 克己心 victory over self (victory with a sense of beyond)
This phrase is sometimes heard in martial arts including kendo.
Also means self-denial, but we are not talking about the river in Egypt, are we?

Regards.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 01-16-2011 at 06:17 PM.
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Old 01-16-2011, 07:45 PM   #204
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Demetrio you need better dictionaries. I've made my position clear and I'm not interested in repeating myself. I noticed you used the word suki. So you see a discussion as competition. My model of discussion is an exchange of opinions so that everyone learns. But it certainly explains your aggression in forums. By the way when you say we all know that aikido is not a sport who are you speaking for? Tomiki Sensei thought it was and so might his students.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
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Old 01-16-2011, 08:45 PM   #205
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

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...you see a discussion as competition. My model of discussion is an exchange of opinions so that everyone learns. But it certainly explains your aggression in forums.
Well said.
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Old 01-16-2011, 10:36 PM   #206
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
Demetrio you need better dictionaries. I've made my position clear and I'm not interested in repeating myself. I noticed you used the word suki. So you see a discussion as competition. My model of discussion is an exchange of opinions so that everyone learns. But it certainly explains your aggression in forums. By the way when you say we all know that aikido is not a sport who are you speaking for? Tomiki Sensei thought it was and so might his students.
Tomiki thought to replicate the shiai model that judo had within an aikido framework - to attribute that to imply he thought aikido was a "sport" is rather erroneous and speaks to some ignorance around how Kano modeled judo to begin with. That they have evolved to sporting competitions, I'd argue there's persons within both "sports" that wish for older days when it was more about the shiai and less about the "competition".

Niall, both you and Graham seem to only want to focus on the sides of the discussion that support your points, while minimizing the counterpoints offered - then crying foul when someone does it back to you. If you really want to keep it to an "exchange of opinions" try taking the high road and give credence to the very valid counterpoints offered based on historical precedence
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:04 AM   #207
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
both competition judo and competition aikido have been derived from the essence of the ancient schools of jujutsu and developed into modern, competitive sports.
Kenji Tomiki.
Well that's what he said.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:52 AM   #208
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
Demetrio you need better dictionaries.
For sure. I've been using Compact and New Nelsons for Japanese and a Pocket Collins for English. Which ones you recommend?
Quote:
I've made my position clear and I'm not interested in repeating myself.
No problem.
Quote:
I noticed you used the word suki. So you see a discussion as competition.
It’s a budo term.
Quote:
My model of discussion is an exchange of opinions so that everyone learns.
Mine is similar, but there is a slight difference between your model and mine: I provide as support of my opinions data and references everybody can check and review.
Quote:
But it certainly explains your aggression in forums.
How so?
Quote:
By the way when you say we all know that aikido is not a sport who are you speaking for?
For those in the know.
Quote:
Tomiki Sensei thought it was and so might his students.
I’d like to read your hermeneutical work about Tomiki Sensei.
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:38 AM   #209
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Demetrio, in budo first you have to learn to deal with yourself, not the 相手 aite. So my advice is 克己心 kokkishin. Good luck.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
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Old 01-17-2011, 12:02 PM   #210
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

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Demetrio, in budo first you have to learn to deal with yourself, not the 相手 aite. So my advice is 克己心 kokkishin. Good luck.
Being deeply learned and skilled, being well trained and using well spoken words; this is good luck.

Thanks for the exchange.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 01-17-2011 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:48 PM   #211
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Interesting but tiresome thread. It's loaded with many wrong assumptions about Tomiki's approach (and Kano's as well), especially the blog. Honestly, too many to itemize and comment on.

At the time when Tomiki trained with Ueshiba M., O-Sensei taught Daito Ryu Aikijujutsu (later called Aiki Budo). The vast majority of religious, non-combative elements that make up "modern" "traditional" "Aikido" did not even exist in the training at that time. At that time it was a martial art - a means of combat and a form of Jujutsu. The central idea was to win (aka survive) when in a combat or self defence situation. As a result, what Tomiki and those of that time studied is not what most "traditional" Aikidoists would call or recognize as "Aikido".

Suffice it to say that if one is doing a martial art (a term that does not apply to most of the training methods used in the Aikido world today), it is critical to test your technique, strategy, tactics and concepts against every possible scenario for the sake of ones own development. Competition is not a perfect approach to this sort of testing but it does give very good feedback on core areas. It is a great tool when used in the proper training context.

Folks talk a lot about "victory over self" as a key objective. If one has ever stepped on the mat in Shodokan shiai (or even in randori practice) one would realize that without victory over the self at many levels, it is impossible to even enter shiai or resistance randori, much less last an entire bout. Shiai is designed to test victory and control over physical, emotional and spiritual self when one is placed in adverse conditions where victory is not guaranteed by prior arrangement or agreement.

I have no issue if certain Aikidoka want nothing to do with competition. That is a personal choice that is linked to their overall goals. But Ueshiba M. was kept abreast of Tomiki's research into competitive Aikido throughout much of its development and did not indicate any issue with the path that was being taken at Waseda University. Tomiki's method was even introduced to the Aikikai before Ueshiba K. took control of operations there, so I find it hard to believe that Ueshiba M. condemned the whole concept, despite well known statements to the contrary. I think the actual relationship between Tomiki and Ueshiba M. on competition was somewhat more complex than an absolute "no to shiai" else O-Sensei would not even allow the method to be taught to Aikikai students in the earlier days and later in Osaka at Hirokazu Kobayashi's Aikikai dojo.

Some have issue with the win/lose concept of competition. I dare say that if one is trained and taught correctly, this is not an issue in Aikido shiai. This is because shiai is about self development and should provide a win/win scenario when done right. If one loses a match he wins because he should be learning something about himself and how close or far away he is from "victory over self". Why one lost the match goes a long way towards where one needs to work next to move closer towards self victory.

If one wins a match, one also learns something about oneself and can analyze ones performance and work on ways of becoming even more efficient or effective in shiai and also apply the lessons learnt to situations outside of the limited competition environment.

Sadly, competition is often blamed for what are really weaknesses in the human ego. Shiai reveals critical weaknesses in our overall self so we often blame the messenger instead of addressing the weakness.

Like anything else, if the individual allows the training method to cause tunnel vision (i.e. focusing ONLY on shiai, or ONLY on kata) then one compromises the potential for learning and self development as the lessons are not applied to the wider world. Imho this applies to all martial arts and martial artists and is not limited to any particular individual, style or system. In the end what you don't train can hurt you. The real question is whether one cares or not.

Just some thoughts.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:14 PM   #212
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Honest thought in my opinion Larry.......
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:50 AM   #213
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Great post Larry!
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Old 01-18-2011, 03:26 AM   #214
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
I didn't forget the thesis: "For hundreds of years people have studied budo and bujutsu without matches and competition. They are learned by studying basic movements and kata - stylized forms." and what this implies regarding O Sensei banning 試合
More accurately the debate about competition or not has been going on for 100s of years. Judo itself got its recognition by victory over several jujitsu ryu and it was expected in many ryu that student's would go out and test their mettle often by arrangement.

Karl Friday talks about his teacher going up against an 8th Dan aikidoka (no names were mentioned) and winning. Ueshiba faced the Kendo guy. These were matches by any definition. Personally I think Tomiki was right when he said that Aikido training was missing something. He thought the answer was Judo like randori and shiai for the young bucks. It is pretty clear that Ueshiba had a somewhat different view but I also don't think the lack of competition has saved most aikidoist from themselves.

Peter Rehse Shodokan Aikido
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:36 AM   #215
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Hi Peter,

I think you misunderstood my post.
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:47 AM   #216
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

@Larry
@Peter

Thanks a lot, guys. There have been a few people from the Tomiki style who have been incoherent, and abusive, in the way they express themselves; you two are a credit to your style.

Regards competition/training with a resisting partner: I train aikikai, and I love it; Seishiro Endo Sensei really sums up what I want to be able to achieve in aikido.
I don't have any desire to compete, and I can't even compete when playing football anymore - that desire has been trained out of me... - but occasionally, me and my step-father will playfight.
He's very strong, having been a mechanic for all his life, and he has a fighting history even Mr Wagstaffe would accept(!); anyway, I easily avoid him pushing me over, and I even got a nikkyo on him, the other day. I just stood there, holding his hand and arm, wondering how the hell i'd done it.

So I guess that has shown me that my aikido works - in spite of my training method - and that I had the right attitude: 'no mind'.

In the wake of that, I have thought quite a bit about the possibility of doing some competition: just going to a judo club, maybe, where the other person would instigate, and make all the running, so I wouldn't have to (I don't think I could, or would like to) - not a competitive aikido class; but as fun as it was just doing some aikido in a freestyle format, I don't think I could do competition, as I think it'd require a mindset - not 'no mind', but a pre-conceived mentality.

How have you guys found competition: do you have to stifle your impulse to strike, or do illegal techniques? Do you tense up, and begin wrestling/using physical strength? Do you try and force techniques - going against 'the flow'?

I guess the issue I have with competition in aikido is that the essence of it, for me, is non-resistance, and freedom from desire: you strive to avoid conflict - but that's what a competition is...

Sincerely

- Graham
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:53 AM   #217
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
@Larry
@Peter

Thanks a lot, guys. There have been a few people from the Tomiki style who have been incoherent, and abusive, in the way they express themselves; you two are a credit to your style.

Regards competition/training with a resisting partner: I train aikikai, and I love it; Seishiro Endo Sensei really sums up what I want to be able to achieve in aikido.
I don't have any desire to compete, and I can't even compete when playing football anymore - that desire has been trained out of me... - but occasionally, me and my step-father will playfight.
He's very strong, having been a mechanic for all his life, and he has a fighting history even Mr Wagstaffe would accept(!); anyway, I easily avoid him pushing me over, and I even got a nikkyo on him, the other day. I just stood there, holding his hand and arm, wondering how the hell i'd done it.

So I guess that has shown me that my aikido works - in spite of my training method - and that I had the right attitude: 'no mind'.

In the wake of that, I have thought quite a bit about the possibility of doing some competition: just going to a judo club, maybe, where the other person would instigate, and make all the running, so I wouldn't have to (I don't think I could, or would like to) - not a competitive aikido class; but as fun as it was just doing some aikido in a freestyle format, I don't think I could do competition, as I think it'd require a mindset - not 'no mind', but a pre-conceived mentality.

How have you guys found competition: do you have to stifle your impulse to strike, or do illegal techniques? Do you tense up, and begin wrestling/using physical strength? Do you try and force techniques - going against 'the flow'?

I guess the issue I have with competition in aikido is that the essence of it, for me, is non-resistance, and freedom from desire: you strive to avoid conflict - but that's what a competition is...

Sincerely

- Graham
Not abusive Graham just a wee bit of pee taking..... if ya can't handle that? What can you handle? I really wonder.....
Why not pop along to a Shodokan club and try out the training, you might be quite surprised
Plenty near your way.....

You wouldn't like me abusive Graham..... I go all green.......

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 01-18-2011 at 10:58 AM.
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:05 PM   #218
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
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How have you guys found competition: do you have to stifle your impulse to strike, or do illegal techniques? Do you tense up, and begin wrestling/using physical strength? Do you try and force techniques - going against 'the flow'?
Hi Graham,

Everything you said above are quite possible with competition training so it is important that one knows where the benefits of the training tool exist and where they stop.

As for me - the impulse to strike (as in deliver a k.o. punch or similar) is not really there since the atemi waza we are taught are designed to off-balance and throw ones partner. As a result, when I hit my partner the objective is to throw him, not to use a percussive strike to cause direct injury.

Tensing up and wrestling are some pitfalls that I have found showing up with many who do a lot of competition training. It takes a lot for humans to not tense up when in a non-compliant situation. It's a natural response to a threat.

For me, I work to stay true to the kata and kihon waza. If I do that while practicing shiai and randori then true Aikido technique appears and the wrestling and tensing is kept to a minimum or eliminated. The thing is, the more resistance randori one does, the more one learns where fear starts to set in and where tension and the need to "fight" or wrestle shows itself. In this way we can work on increasing our ability to stay relaxed under pressure as we can systematically reveal the points where abnormal tension occurs as we proceed through a bout with our partner.

As regards forcing technique, yes I have seen this happen a lot and is again a result of the fear that sets in when ones first technique does not work. The thing is, ones partner knows every technique that one can apply and will block it or counter immediately unless kuzushi is achieved and maintained throughout the technique. So executing successful waza against a skillfully resisting opponent is difficult for almost everyone. This is where combination techniques come in, where one uses the resistance and movement of ones partner as the means to effect the next technique.

Imho the only difference between shiai and non-shiai folks in this light is that those who do shiai have a much better idea of where their failure points are and have probably developed mechanisms to compensate for them or fix them, whereas the non-shiai folks will probably first discover these limitations during a serious encounter where there is little room for failure.

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
I guess the issue I have with competition in aikido is that the essence of it, for me, is non-resistance, and freedom from desire: you strive to avoid conflict - but that's what a competition is...
To me, the ideal situation in shiai is non-resistance. If this is not achieved it becomes the exploitation of resistance to create non-resistance. If one resists by tensing up instead of relaxing he greatly limits his potential to sense his partner's subtle movements correctly and execute effective waza when suki appears.

Mushin mugamae (no mind no posture) is a central tenet of how we train, regardless if it is for shiai, self defence or personal development. The person who is focused on winning almost always creates openings for his partner to exploit (mental focus is separated to more than one simultaneous objective), so imho and ime desiring to win is contrary to actually achieving that goal. So a good competition mindset should be free of desire imho.

As regards striving to avoid conflict I see things differently. Imho I can only hope to continually evade and/or prevent something by improving my understanding of it. While shiai is not a conflict as in a life and death struggle (it is usually very friendly actually), it does give me insight into how I behave when placed in a situation where I do not always get my way. This information is priceless for me as it teaches a bit about why I should aim to avoid conflict to start with (i.e. I might become a walking pin-cushion for someone with sharp object).

By entering into competition I mimic many of the final elements of an actual conflict (the stage of physical engagement) and once again the knowledge gained in these tests give information that cannot otherwise be easily obtained by non-violent means. It is not a perfect model of what may happen in a combative engagement but it gives more insight than if I did not engage in such a practice.

Imho Aikidoka may have common potential weaknesses in technique, tactics, strategy etc. across training methods, styles, organizations etc. Competition and resistance training are a couple ways of testing to find out what those weaknesses may be within a controlled environment to ensure that proactive steps may be taken to fix those weaknesses.

As said earlier, there are many whose training goals have nothing to do with the martial aspects of the art and as a result, shiai will make no sense to them as it has no purpose in regards to the goals they want to achieve. There is nothing wrong with that, but this is not the only approach to Aikido that exists.

Just my thoughts.
LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
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Old 04-05-2011, 06:52 AM   #219
SteliosPapadakis
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

i feel i owe an apology to everyone for something i have written...,
Somewhere, in the past previous pages on this thread, i insisted on something i had read in the past. It concerned a particular event in which O' Sensei stood in front of a firing squad and avoided their bullets in order to prove the power of (his) internal excellence...On my post i insisted that it was Roy Suenaka Sensei that describes this event as an on the spot whitness.
Lately, i had time to browse through my books and found out that Roy Suenaka Sensei does not descibe such an event in his book "Complete Aikido". Search upon search in my library revealed that the particular incident is described by John Stevens Shihan in the book "The Art of Peace".
Again, my apologies to all...
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Old 04-05-2011, 06:54 AM   #220
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Hi Stelios,

Sometimes memory fail us. Don't worry.
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Old 04-20-2011, 07:02 PM   #221
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Interesting article from AJ.....

http://www.aikidojournal.com/article?articleID=430
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Old 04-21-2011, 11:38 AM   #222
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Thanks Tony.

One of the best articles I've read in a while.

Best to you.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
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Old 04-21-2011, 12:12 PM   #223
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
Thanks Tony.

One of the best articles I've read in a while.

Best to you.

LC
And to you..... But I have to admit to being a little biased.
Tomiki Shihan is one of the least well known about, it's shame as I feel he was most likely the best teacher out of all Proff Ueshiba's Deshi...
He has made "aikido" a lot easier to understand and make practical to all those who have tried the T/S system.... I would say that Shioda comes a close second, followed by Saito....
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:44 PM   #224
David Orange
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

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Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
So I know that this has been discussed - quite heatedly - in the past, here.
And I know that there have always been people saying that there is ambiguity, on account of translation from Japanese to English, about O'Sensei's opinion.

But I got this book for Christmas:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Heart-Aikido...4343973&sr=8-1

...it's the translation, and organisation of a series of lectures O'Sensei gave to a religious organisation, and while I understand the author (John Stevens) has no doubt got his own interpretation, and outlook, etc., there is a passage which is very detailed, and so, I think, near-impossible to be mistaken about:

'True budo can never be a sport. In budo we strive to refine and perfect our characters. If we can perfect our characters, we can accomplish anything; in that spirit we as human beings can protect the environment from harm.

Our country never developed Western-style competitive sports, but these days there are those among us who are glad that martial arts are becoming sports. That, however, is a gross misunderstanding of the true nature of budo. Sports are games and a form of play, They are games played by physical entities, not matters of the spirit. In other words, they involve mere competition. Budo, however, is a means to maintain and promote harmony'


(Morihei Ueshiba and John Stevens, The Heart of Aikido: The Philosophy of Takemusu Aiki (Kodansha International Ltd, 2010), p. 52)

Opinions, interpretations, insights...?
I think that describes O Sensei's attitude very well. Mochizuki Sensei shared that attitude. Though he developed a system of all-out randori to ground submission if necessary, it was never a sport and there was never a score. Every encounter was pure research and the outcome was pure experience to be understood in terms of the principles of budo. Even Jigoro Kano resisted the inclusion of judo as an Olympic sport and that inclusion has degraded judo. Yoshio Sugino, a very tiny man, but incredibly formidable in judo, quit judo when weight classes were established.

There is some room for sporting elements in budo--such as old-style judo--but when the sporting element takes over, the budo is no longer there.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
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Old 04-21-2011, 08:55 PM   #225
Chris Li
 
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Re: Aikido as Sport: Did O'Sensei Condemn It?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
I think that describes O Sensei's attitude very well. Mochizuki Sensei shared that attitude. Though he developed a system of all-out randori to ground submission if necessary, it was never a sport and there was never a score. Every encounter was pure research and the outcome was pure experience to be understood in terms of the principles of budo. Even Jigoro Kano resisted the inclusion of judo as an Olympic sport and that inclusion has degraded judo. Yoshio Sugino, a very tiny man, but incredibly formidable in judo, quit judo when weight classes were established.

There is some room for sporting elements in budo--such as old-style judo--but when the sporting element takes over, the budo is no longer there.

Best wishes.

David
It's a translation of "Takemusu Aiki" (somewhat abridged to make it more comprehensible). And yes, in the original Japanese Ueshiba states quite clearly that competition is "forbidden".

Once again, before anybody goes nuts again, I'm not saying he's right (or wrong), just that his opinion was stated quite clearly, in his own words.

Best,

Chris

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