Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-19-2011, 08:32 PM   #426
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,157
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Two basic facts:

1)"Telling it like it is" is always, ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder, and you -- the beholder -- has no more claim to knowing what objective reality ("like it is") than anyone else.

2)Absolute freedom of speech is not guaranteed anywhere on the planet, by any means, and most certainly not when you're in someone else's living room. And when you're on a forum that's built and run and paid for by someone else? Cuz, you ARE in someone else's living room, and talk about "freedom of speech" is just silly.
 
Old 04-20-2011, 12:44 AM   #427
George S. Ledyard
 
George S. Ledyard's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Eastside
Location: Bellevue, WA
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 2,670
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Mark

I didn't count the posts - to be fair to Tony he has been away for a month and is catching up on his replies.....
Personally, I would get little or no satisfaction from a further ban.
Tony tells it how it is, not many people like that...I don't always agree with him as I am sure he probably does not with me.
Do I care "" NO "" Does Tony care ""NO "" lets keep the forum open for free speech.

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
http://www.british-aikido.com
When Tony is gone... well, it's a bit dull, oft times. When he's back, it's fireworks and vituperation galore. What does that say about the rest of us? I think one of the things Aikido training is about is developing heightened sensitivity with zero reactivity. I think Tony's here for us to practice on our excess of reactivity... if he exceeds our capacity to do so, there's always the "ignore" function...

That brings up a very Zen scenario... If Tony posts but everyone has hit the ignore button, did he really post?

Let's let Jun off the hook and police things for ourselves, if we want to.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
Aikido Eastside
AikidoDvds.Com
 
Old 04-20-2011, 03:28 AM   #428
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
When Tony is gone... well, it's a bit dull, oft times. When he's back, it's fireworks and vituperation galore. What does that say about the rest of us? I think one of the things Aikido training is about is developing heightened sensitivity with zero reactivity. I think Tony's here for us to practice on our excess of reactivity... if he exceeds our capacity to do so, there's always the "ignore" function...

That brings up a very Zen scenario... If Tony posts but everyone has hit the ignore button, did he really post?

Let's let Jun off the hook and police things for ourselves, if we want to.
 
Old 04-20-2011, 07:44 AM   #429
Diana Frese
Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 386
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

What keeps Aiki Web so interesting is the diversity. But then, I got into construction after publishing downsized .... and the language is a bit "dodgy?" Wonder what that means, will have to ask on the "separated by a common language" thread.

Loved David's story, now it would be great if y'all y'all (all y'all) could post your favorites.

Tony and Henry have made some valuable points we all should be aware of, Henry has no problem, but Tony please try to stay with us even though "drawing room manners" might seem a bit restrictive. Take it as just another challenge...

(I simply must try to learn to use smileys, but there aren't any on quick reply. Guess I'll have to learn Technology and try the other reply mode.)
 
Old 04-20-2011, 07:47 AM   #430
Diana Frese
Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 386
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

No time like the present.

Take it as just another challenge

Let's see if I got the right smiley
 
Old 04-20-2011, 07:48 AM   #431
Diana Frese
Dojo: Aikikai of S.W. Conn. (formerly)
Location: Stamford Connecticut
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 386
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

See I learned something
 
Old 04-20-2011, 09:00 AM   #432
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Diana Frese wrote: View Post
See I learned something
Oh I say, Steady on Dianne!!
 
Old 04-20-2011, 09:48 AM   #433
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,266
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Two basic facts:

1)"Telling it like it is" is always, ALWAYS in the eye of the beholder, and you -- the beholder -- has no more claim to knowing what objective reality ("like it is") than anyone else.

2)Absolute freedom of speech is not guaranteed anywhere on the planet, by any means, and most certainly not when you're in someone else's living room. And when you're on a forum that's built and run and paid for by someone else? Cuz, you ARE in someone else's living room, and talk about "freedom of speech" is just silly.
Dear Mary, all our lovely readers,
Do you not think it would be a bit dull if all our bloggers churned out the same type of blog day in day out? I am prepared to let Tony have his occasional rant .In fact I personally prefer a rant to some of the blogs by Tenyu which might be the the scientifically minded be absolute gems of wisdom .To me Tenyu -sorry old chap-leaves me scratching my head and wondering what is Tenyu talking about?His blogs amaze me for their [from my perspective] compexity.They leave me with a blank look on my face .Still I will read them to see if both Tenyu /myself can find a vibration/energy field that we both understand.
Diversity is the in my opinion good.From an other example, would anybody like to live eating t bone steaks or porridge ever day?You would soon get sick of the same meal every day
Cheers, Joe.
 
Old 04-20-2011, 09:54 AM   #434
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
I am with Craig's on this, you have no clue!

Tohie was outweighed probably by double - he was not put down, but the other guy was on a couple of occasions. To me, that is what true Aikido would look like in a true combative encounter - it is not about the picture perfect form of a technique, it is about the application of principles and concepts - to me, Tohei appeared to be playing with this guy - for those that do impromptu randori in your training, this is exactly what it looks like, not pretty, but effective if done right.

Greg
yehaaaay!!
 
Old 04-20-2011, 10:09 AM   #435
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,157
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Dear Mary, all our lovely readers,
Do you not think it would be a bit dull if all our bloggers churned out the same type of blog day in day out?
It would indeed be dull if all our posters churned out the same type of post day in day out...but...we don't.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
I am prepared to let Tony have his occasional rant.
Let's not particularize this to Tony, ok?

On the question of whether rants should be permitted...a lot of people think rants are just fine, as long as they themselves are not the target. When someone says that they think a bloody fray is just fine, and they themselves were not among those attacked, I take their view with a big grain of salt.

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Diversity is the in my opinion good.
But incivility and diversity are two different things. Being a contrarian is not "diversity". Resorting to crude insults is not "diversity". Refusal to politely accept others' different views, or to argue with them in a respectful and civil manner, is not "diversity". If anything, it is the opposite. If your view has merit, you can argue it in a civil manner, with others who have different views. That's diversity. A din of blustering bullies is not.

Last edited by akiy : 04-20-2011 at 11:25 AM. Reason: Fixed quote tag.
 
Old 04-20-2011, 10:15 AM   #436
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Tony,

It's clear, though, that you're still stinging from having been suspended from the forum for awhile. I know the feeling. I've gotten too involved in disputes with people on here several times and gotten suspended. And I've recognized that it was my own behavior that earned the suspension. And I can tell you, you earned yours. No need to be offended by it. The offense was yours.

You'll do well just to quit wagging your staff and actually listen to what some people are telling you. There are some excellent martial artists on here with more than a little experience in fighting--people who do martial arts regularly with top teachers from around the world; people who actually own their dojos and control when the space is available and exactly what kind of mats are there. They don't have to beg or make excuses for what they charge. Some of them don't charge at all, yet deliver up some of the best training available anywhere. If they're not able to teach, it's usually because they're out of the country, training with some real master. And that kind of "interruption" doesn't sneak up on them: they're well-paid professionals who created and maintain the space and time in their lives for serious martial arts training and they don't waste that time. They get and give the best.

You could gain a lot by listening to what those people have to say about martial arts. And I'm sure you'd find much more respect from those who read these forums if you will.

Otherwise, I'd expect a few more head-butt sessions before you get a permanent ban, in which case no one will miss you.

It all starts with a good look at oneself and a measure of respect for other people.

Good luck with that.

David
David you sound like a school teacher with a bad pupil, I suggest you take heed of your own words? Me stinging? You have got to be having a laugh old son, some advice, take it or leave as I really don't give a toss......
You talk about he who must be obeyed right? I have noticed that you often bring it in to your posts....... I have another alternative that maybe you should read and see what you come up with. It seems to me that you have the sour grapes and cannot see that in yourself?
I am well aware of who is a "master" and who isn't , it certainly isn't you as you have someone on your side? True masters wouldn't even bother with this forum as they are probably too busy minding their own business just as you say? I doubt if there are any really true "masters" these days, As I am aware even our great teacher referred to himself as just a beginner?

http://godisimaginary.com/

If lightning doesn't strike me twice in the next half hour and you haven't been converted then I'm afraid there is no hope for you....

Take care old son.......
 
Old 04-20-2011, 10:30 AM   #437
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
It would indeed be dull if all our posters churned out the same type of post day in day out...but...we don't.

Let's not particularize this to Tony, ok?

On the question of whether rants should be permitted...a lot of people think rants are just fine, as long as they themselves are not the target. When someone says that they think a bloody fray is just fine, and they themselves were not among those attacked, I take their view with a big grain of salt.

But incivility and diversity are two different things. Being a contrarian is not "diversity". Resorting to crude insults is not "diversity". Refusal to politely accept others' different views, or to argue with them in a respectful and civil manner, is not "diversity". If anything, it is the opposite. If your view has merit, you can argue it in a civil manner, with others who have different views. That's diversity. A din of blustering bullies is not.
Mary lighten up for what's is names sake? You sound like a school mistress too.....
 
Old 04-20-2011, 11:00 AM   #438
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 641
England
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Mary lighten up for what's is names sake? You sound like a school mistress too.....
Tony and Jo

I salute you both for trying against all the odds

Henry Ellis
Aikido Articles
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Hellis : 04-20-2011 at 11:14 AM.
 
Old 04-20-2011, 11:44 AM   #439
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,511
United_States
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony and Jo

I salute you both for trying against all the odds

Henry Ellis
Aikido Articles
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
There's really no odds, Sir T.

Especially with Jo, who is pretty reasonable. You're pretty reasonable, too.

But Tony reminds me of a truck driver who used to come into a coffee shop I frequented. He took to sitting with a group of people I liked and with whom I used to have lengthy conversations on interesting topics.

The problem was, this guy was all talk and no listen. He would make his statements in a loud and crude voice and when you tried to respond, he would just make another statement, talking over you. Maybe if he'd had something interesting to say, people would have listened to him, but it was all noise, negativity, complaints and bragging. And if you tried to "converse" with him, compare notes, make an observation, he would just keep on moaning right over you. I soon found another place to sit and I could hear him criticizing me from the bar for thinking I was better than "them". He soon found himself alone. The coffee shop also went down about that time. He's no good for talk and he's no good for business.

Sad, really, but what more can you do?

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 04-20-2011, 01:02 PM   #440
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
There's really no odds, Sir T.

Especially with Jo, who is pretty reasonable. You're pretty reasonable, too.

But Tony reminds me of a truck driver who used to come into a coffee shop I frequented. He took to sitting with a group of people I liked and with whom I used to have lengthy conversations on interesting topics.

The problem was, this guy was all talk and no listen. He would make his statements in a loud and crude voice and when you tried to respond, he would just make another statement, talking over you. Maybe if he'd had something interesting to say, people would have listened to him, but it was all noise, negativity, complaints and bragging. And if you tried to "converse" with him, compare notes, make an observation, he would just keep on moaning right over you. I soon found another place to sit and I could hear him criticizing me from the bar for thinking I was better than "them". He soon found himself alone. The coffee shop also went down about that time. He's no good for talk and he's no good for business.

Sad, really, but what more can you do?

Best to you.

David
Definitely sour grapes? tsk tsk.....

http://godisimaginary.com/
 
Old 04-20-2011, 01:17 PM   #441
Gorgeous George
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 464
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Jesus...when will the ban hammer fall (again)?
 
Old 04-20-2011, 01:20 PM   #442
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Jesus...when will the ban hammer fall (again)?
Where's your mate Tetley.....?
 
Old 04-20-2011, 01:21 PM   #443
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Jesus...when will the ban hammer fall (again)?
He won't help.... tried that, failed miserably.....
 
Old 04-20-2011, 01:33 PM   #444
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,266
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
It would indeed be dull if all our posters churned out the same type of post day in day out...but...we don't.

Let's not particularize this to Tony, ok?

On the question of whether rants should be permitted...a lot of people think rants are just fine, as long as they themselves are not the target. When someone says that they think a bloody fray is just fine, and they themselves were not among those attacked, I take their view with a big grain of salt.

But incivility and diversity are two different things. Being a contrarian is not "diversity". Resorting to crude insults is not "diversity". Refusal to politely accept others' different views, or to argue with them in a respectful and civil manner, is not "diversity". If anything, it is the opposite. If your view has merit, you can argue it in a civil manner, with others who have different views. That's diversity. A din of blustering bullies is not.
Dear Mary,
Hope you are well.Mary , nowhere in my blog do I mention anything related to being civil /or uncivil. I stated that I felt diversity of opinion from our contributors makes thing more interesting.As I stated I find it difficult to get my head around some articles on this forum but I do not consider myself a person who resorts to crude insults or can be put in the category of a blustering bully.
Cheers, Joe
 
Old 04-20-2011, 01:42 PM   #445
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,266
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
When Tony is gone... well, it's a bit dull, oft times. When he's back, it's fireworks and vituperation galore. What does that say about the rest of us? I think one of the things Aikido training is about is developing heightened sensitivity with zero reactivity. I think Tony's here for us to practice on our excess of reactivity... if he exceeds our capacity to do so, there's always the "ignore" function...

That brings up a very Zen scenario... If Tony posts but everyone has hit the ignore button, did he really post?

Let's let Jun off the hook and police things for ourselves, if we want to.
Hi , Ledyard Sensei,
Very Zen like concept regarding Tony.Almost as strange as the question if a tree in a forest falls and there is no one there, does the tree make a sound?Or the other one, What is the sound of one hand clapping? Good stuff.
Cheers, Joe
 
Old 04-20-2011, 01:42 PM   #446
Gorgeous George
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 464
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Where's your mate Tetley.....?
Mate? Tetley...?
 
Old 04-20-2011, 02:29 PM   #447
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Oh dear...... aren't we a little slow?
 
Old 04-20-2011, 02:30 PM   #448
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Hi , Ledyard Sensei,
Very Zen like concept regarding Tony.Almost as strange as the question if a tree in a forest falls and there is no one there, does the tree make a sound?Or the other one, What is the sound of one hand clapping? Good stuff.
Cheers, Joe
Same as the other one?
 
Old 04-20-2011, 03:26 PM   #449
Gorgeous George
Join Date: Sep 2009
Posts: 464
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Oh dear...... aren't we a little slow?
Hmm...if I was slow, I might have actually read the torrent of drivel you ceaselessly post - however, I haven't, which is probably a testament to some amount of wisdom.
That probably explains why I don't understand your pseudo-witty reference.

...thanks for 'Telling it like it is.'. When you are permanently banned, good luck finding something else to do with your time.
 
Old 04-20-2011, 04:26 PM   #450
akiy
 
akiy's Avatar
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 5,988
Offline
Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

I don't see any sense in continuing this thread at this point seeing what the discussion has devolved into.

Thread closed.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
 

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
If you could buy just ONE book about Aikido techniques, what would it be? Karol Kowalczyk Techniques 45 02-01-2014 12:35 AM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 18 Peter Goldsbury Columns 187 09-08-2011 03:41 PM
I'm Leaving Aikido Daniel Ranger-Holt General 122 10-07-2010 09:01 PM
"Off-The-Mat" Forum akiy "Off-The-Mat" 6 06-02-2008 01:22 AM
The Point of Aikido George S. Ledyard Columns 50 10-04-2007 06:17 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 02:33 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate