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Old 04-19-2011, 09:12 AM   #401
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
John Burn wrote: View Post
Hi Joe,

Far from it - I'm just working on things in my own club whilst trying to follow a few teachers but not be a copycat, I'm trying to figure out how to get my body to do the things some of their bodies can. I've not felt any Aikido teacher in this country who feels like some of the guys who I like - I mean that from an 'internal' feeling point of view. Hard to explain, but kind of like feeling how the hell did they just do that to me. Mostly I feel (in this country) definite muscling of most techniques on me - every way of course has it's merits and to each his own.

I'm absolutely not wanting to see uke's fly away or fall over without being touched - that would impress me about as much as it would impress you.

I'm afraid that I rarely watch youtube for my Aikido fixes, I usually get out to seminars and train with people as opposed to stomping around a mat telling others that they should try to understand the principles behind the techniques when it's someone not even of their background or 'flavour' of aikido teaching. Ahem, some Scottish chap did that to me once or twice lol.

I'm far from an expert on anything internal, but I do know what I've felt is not something 'normal'. I've trained with quite a few guys in this country, you included (you're the Scottish guy I mentioned above lol) and no-one has given me the same feeling of utter confusion yet. Lot's of pain yes, but not lots of confusion.

I never meant any offense to Tony's aikido, indeed for what it was it looked good, just I was expecting something more from how he was talking in the IS threads. Indeed some of the thumb grabs and wrist manipulations reminded me of my first teacher, brought back a few memories .

Tony - yes and no, I don't think your internal works any different, I think you're talking about something entirely different which you are calling internal - and that's great for you. But it's not what the other guys are talking about .
Nothing internal except guts? Mind se's body move body moves....?
either that or stay still? I just like to keep it simple.....
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:14 AM   #402
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
That's not accurate at all. Tohei had strict limitations put upon him by Ueshiba...
So do the shodokaner shoddy thugs......
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:17 AM   #403
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Craig Hocker wrote: View Post
You have no clue what you are talking about.
<sigh>
do you?
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:21 AM   #404
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
Oh Tony....you're so fine....you're so fine....you blow my mind....HEY TONY !
Hey Mickey please...... next thing you'll be asking me for a dance....

hello sailor........... .
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:23 AM   #405
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
David

I imagine that Graham is thinking the same

Henry Ellis
Aikido Controversy
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Sorry Henry I'm back to haunt......
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:25 AM   #406
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
To me the question is nonsensical.

I would ask rather 'Is your reality up to Aikido?'

To you this may be nonsensical.

To Aikido it's obvious!
Yes.....
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:36 AM   #407
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Sorry Henry I'm back to haunt......
Hi Tony

Good to see you are back to take a reality check

Nice to see you and Graham getting on so well, you keep in with him and he will help you back onto the true path...

Henry Ellis
Aikido Controversy
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:43 AM   #408
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Hi Tony

Good to see you are back to take a reality check

Nice to see you and Graham getting on so well, you keep in with him and he will help you back onto the true path...

Henry Ellis
Aikido Controversy
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
I've already had five point awarded as an infraction and I've only been back 5 mins !! What's this 1 point per one minute? Geeeeeze!! Who's the creep?

I think its time to start a new Fred......?

Sorry Sensei, thought I'd get things of to a good start?
Not bloomin' likely.....

Graham' s allright Just doesn't see what I see I suppose, Must get one of those 'ats though, really coooool.....

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 04-19-2011 at 09:45 AM.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 09:55 AM   #409
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I've already had five point awarded as an infraction and I've only been back 5 mins !! What's this 1 point per one minute? Geeeeeze!! Who's the creep?

I think its time to start a new Fred......?

Sorry Sensei, thought I'd get things of to a good start?
Not bloomin' likely.....

Graham' s allright Just doesn't see what I see I suppose, Must get one of those 'ats though, really coooool.....
Tony

What is five point infraction ?? never heard of that ..

You need to make ``new `` friends, say nice things, such as admire Grahams hats

Henry Ellis
Aikido Books
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
 
Old 04-19-2011, 10:12 AM   #410
john.burn
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Nothing internal except guts? Mind se's body move body moves....?
either that or stay still? I just like to keep it simple.....
Would you be so kind as to translate what you just said into legible English? I think you already responded to this way back when.

If you're trying to say there's only guts inside then.. oh dear .

Best Regards,
John

www.chishindojo.co.uk
 
Old 04-19-2011, 10:55 AM   #411
chillzATL
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

awesome, I've got 1 week, over/under anyone?
 
Old 04-19-2011, 11:00 AM   #412
lbb
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Taking the under. WAY under.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 11:18 AM   #413
john.burn
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

6 days...

Best Regards,
John

www.chishindojo.co.uk
 
Old 04-19-2011, 11:55 AM   #414
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
John Burn wrote: View Post
Would you be so kind as to translate what you just said into legible English? I think you already responded to this way back when.

If you're trying to say there's only guts inside then.. oh dear .
Last time I looked there was.... I worked in the local hospital for twelve and a half years in all department as a sparks. I was quite interested in the autopsy's in the morgue (last stop hotel) where they would cut out all the tripe, liver, kidneys, heart, lungs and other bits and pieces and put them in different buckets for close inspection as well as the donor's that were whisked off for transplantation elsewhere after the rta's that came in...... Usually in different bags... that is messy
the worst bit is when they do the first cut and all the gases escape.... Phooor what a stink!! wretch wretch !! Just like gutting a bunny......
It's the zip stitch up they do afterwards, so neat and tidy, when they put back what is no good, or a fry up......?
 
Old 04-19-2011, 11:58 AM   #415
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

What is five point infraction ?? never heard of that ..

You need to make ``new `` friends, say nice things, such as admire Grahams hats

Henry Ellis
Aikido Books
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
I do, I do..... How is Tetley? ...... aka Tea Cosy....
 
Old 04-19-2011, 01:40 PM   #416
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
John Burn wrote: View Post
6 days...
Don't you believe it unless you have "friends"?
 
Old 04-19-2011, 02:30 PM   #417
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Don't you believe it unless you have "friends"?
Tony

As I said, you need friends - Good to see you making new friends,

Henry Ellis
Aikido in MMA
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
 
Old 04-19-2011, 03:03 PM   #418
Mark Freeman
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Jason Casteel wrote: View Post
awesome, I've got 1 week, over/under anyone?
I'm in with Mary on this one

18 posts in quick succession, he's back....but for how long?

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 03:15 PM   #419
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
I'm in with Mary on this one

18 posts in quick succession, he's back....but for how long?
Mark

I didn't count the posts - to be fair to Tony he has been away for a month and is catching up on his replies.....
Personally, I would get little or no satisfaction from a further ban.
Tony tells it how it is, not many people like that...I don't always agree with him as I am sure he probably does not with me.
Do I care "" NO "" Does Tony care ""NO "" lets keep the forum open for free speech.

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
http://www.british-aikido.com
 
Old 04-19-2011, 04:06 PM   #420
Mark Freeman
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Mark

I didn't count the posts - to be fair to Tony he has been away for a month and is catching up on his replies.....
Personally, I would get little or no satisfaction from a further ban.
Tony tells it how it is, not many people like that...I don't always agree with him as I am sure he probably does not with me.
Do I care "" NO "" Does Tony care ""NO "" lets keep the forum open for free speech.

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
http://www.british-aikido.com
Hi Henry,

I'm all for free speech, apart from yelling Fire! in a theatre. I respect that Tony has strong opinions, a dodgy sense of humour and little good to say about aikido that doesn't fit his view of how it should be.
I'm not sure that people dislike the fact that Tony tells it how it is, maybe it is the delivery that rankles some? Some unpalatable truths can be accepted when explained in the right way.

Personally I would get little satisfaction from a ban either, I like a banter and a good argument now and then. However, this is Jun's forum and him's that makes and enforces the rules.

One of the best examples I saw of 'ironic' free speech was seeing a group of muslim protesters at a rally in the UK with one holding up a placard saying "Kill all those who say that Islam is not a religion of peace". They were being protected by the police! So free speech, yes let people say what they want, let everyone else judge the merits of what they say.

regards

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
 
Old 04-19-2011, 05:39 PM   #421
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Hi Henry,

I'm all for free speech, apart from yelling Fire! in a theatre. I respect that Tony has strong opinions, a dodgy sense of humour and little good to say about aikido that doesn't fit his view of how it should be.
I'm not sure that people dislike the fact that Tony tells it how it is, maybe it is the delivery that rankles some? Some unpalatable truths can be accepted when explained in the right way.

Personally I would get little satisfaction from a ban either, I like a banter and a good argument now and then. However, this is Jun's forum and him's that makes and enforces the rules.

One of the best examples I saw of 'ironic' free speech was seeing a group of muslim protesters at a rally in the UK with one holding up a placard saying "Kill all those who say that Islam is not a religion of peace". They were being protected by the police! So free speech, yes let people say what they want, let everyone else judge the merits of what they say.

regards

Mark
Crikey, I'm ranked with the radicals now..... May he who must be obeyed strike me down with lightning bolts..... ouch!!...
 
Old 04-19-2011, 05:50 PM   #422
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Mark

I didn't count the posts - to be fair to Tony he has been away for a month and is catching up on his replies.....
Personally, I would get little or no satisfaction from a further ban.
Tony tells it how it is, not many people like that...I don't always agree with him as I am sure he probably does not with me.
Do I care "" NO "" Does Tony care ""NO "" lets keep the forum open for free speech.

Henry Ellis
British Aikido History
http://www.british-aikido.com
Henry Sensei has me weighed off, surely the rest of you can see that.... Sorry about my dodgy sense of humour, I'm just not me without it..... Maybe some of of us need to develop more Rhino Skin....?
Can you? I know I did many eons ago whilst in service for my country. Boy oh boy there was some right wind ups.......
I do have a serious side to me sometimes, but the older I get the funnier things get to.... I will try to be more serious........
 
Old 04-19-2011, 05:58 PM   #423
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Hi Tony

Good to see you are back to take a reality check

Nice to see you and Graham getting on so well, you keep in with him and he will help you back onto the true path...

Henry Ellis
Aikido Controversy
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Not up the garden path I 'ope.....? So long as there is a good brew there I'm up for it..... Tea anybody? With or without? One lump or two?
 
Old 04-19-2011, 06:19 PM   #424
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Henry Sensei has me weighed off, surely the rest of you can see that.... Sorry about my dodgy sense of humour, I'm just not me without it..... Maybe some of of us need to develop more Rhino Skin....?
Can you? I know I did many eons ago whilst in service for my country. Boy oh boy there was some right wind ups.......
I do have a serious side to me sometimes, but the older I get the funnier things get to.... I will try to be more serious........
Tony,

It's clear, though, that you're still stinging from having been suspended from the forum for awhile. I know the feeling. I've gotten too involved in disputes with people on here several times and gotten suspended. And I've recognized that it was my own behavior that earned the suspension. And I can tell you, you earned yours. No need to be offended by it. The offense was yours.

You'll do well just to quit wagging your staff and actually listen to what some people are telling you. There are some excellent martial artists on here with more than a little experience in fighting--people who do martial arts regularly with top teachers from around the world; people who actually own their dojos and control when the space is available and exactly what kind of mats are there. They don't have to beg or make excuses for what they charge. Some of them don't charge at all, yet deliver up some of the best training available anywhere. If they're not able to teach, it's usually because they're out of the country, training with some real master. And that kind of "interruption" doesn't sneak up on them: they're well-paid professionals who created and maintain the space and time in their lives for serious martial arts training and they don't waste that time. They get and give the best.

You could gain a lot by listening to what those people have to say about martial arts. And I'm sure you'd find much more respect from those who read these forums if you will.

Otherwise, I'd expect a few more head-butt sessions before you get a permanent ban, in which case no one will miss you.

It all starts with a good look at oneself and a measure of respect for other people.

Good luck with that.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 04-19-2011, 06:36 PM   #425
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

But to get back to reality and the topic of this thread, "Is aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?"

Many people may not be aware of this, but Tenshin Shoden Katori Shinto Ryu is an actual martial art: besides subjects like sword, staff and spear, they teach the ancient samurai way of building fortifications--structures to prevent horses and enemy troops from passing a line. And they teach spy-craft and assassination methods.

That is a real martial art.

Does anyone in aikido teach or even know that kind of thing?

I'm sure there is no "style" or group of aikido that teaches that way. So, no, aikido is not a soldier art. It doesn't include marching to a cadence, turning a column or by the flank.

At best, aikido is an art of personal self-defense, and that is how I view it. The question then is, "Is your aikido effective for street encounters with thugs?" And I have to say that mine is. Take it or leave it, I have the experience and to say otherwise makes the speaker a fool.

And I have also passed that art to others. One person who really impressed me was a small woman who was working as a cosmetologist in New York City. She trained with me for several months before moving up there and was pretty good in randori. She told me two stories about defending herself from two attackers each time.

In the first case, she was walking with her cosmetology kit in one hand when she became aware that two guys were following her closely and coming closer. Just as she glanced back, one guy rushed up and grabbed her from behind, his arms around her waist and his head coming out from under her arm. His friend was hanging back. My former student simply brought her make-up case across her body and bonked the fellow in the head with it. He instantly let her go and staggered back, holding his head. The other guy said, "Oh, man! This is not cool!" and they both ran away.

In the other incident, she realized that two guys were following her as she neared her building and she sensed that they were going to follow her inside and rob her. She knew they didn't live in her building and she could sense that they were targeting her. Her building had a double door arrangement: the street-level door was open to the public, but at the top of a set of steps was a locked door. She went through the first door and put her key into the second door just as the guys came through the first door. She got the second door unlocked just as they were coming up the stairs and she could tell that they were going to rush in behind her and rob her. So, with the second door unlocked, she turned to the guys and as the first one reached the top step, she just shoved him back and he fell onto the second guy, who was following him. They both fell down the interior steps while she went inside and the door locked behind her.

Two separate two-man attacks, each handled by one "move" that was not even a "technique". She credited her training with me for giving her the "sense" of how to do those things: effortless, effective, perfectly timed actions that cut to the heart of the matter.

How could she have done more perfectly?

Her aikido was certainly up to reality. And since she learned it from me....I'm proud of her.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 

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