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Old 04-15-2011, 03:57 PM   #26
Erick Mead
 
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Re: MMA not a MA?

Quote:
Hunter Lonsberry wrote: View Post
MMA is not a martial art:

It is a ruleset.
I agree with that definition.

A martial art is oriented to war. War has no rules -- it has an ethic, but no rules.

I recall something about supreme excellence in war being to win without fighting. Not that you can't, but you avoid having to without losing -- that is the goal in any event.

No warrior in his right mind would step into a cage to "win" a prize of some paper tokens of value.

Saotome was right: You fight, your prize is you keep your head.

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 04-16-2011, 12:05 PM   #27
grondahl
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Re: MMA not a MA?

Still many involved in combat sports does not compete but still just train for the joy of training and personal progress. others compete but use it only as a metod for checking that their training is going in the right direction. At the same time many involved in aikido is searching for tangible results for their training outside regular waza.

I think it´s more a difference in mindset of the individual rather than the art itself.

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
It may just be me, but it seems natural to make a distinction between the type of martial art where you go to the dojo and train, period, and the type of martial art where you go to the dojo to prepare for getting into a ring and winning a rules-restricted fight.

if a martial art remains free of the business of having to succeed in a sporting environment, then it can become a place where deep principals and impossible techniques are studied. When you have to put fighters into a ring and have them come out victorious, deep principals and elaborate techniques tend to go away. The journey of transformation has a different quality and I think it leads to a different place.

Personally, I consider training for a combat sport to be so driven by the need to obtain tangible results that it is silly to call it "art" in the same sense that a lifetime+ journey like Aikido training is.
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:07 PM   #28
Cliff Judge
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Re: MMA not a MA?

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
Still many involved in combat sports does not compete but still just train for the joy of training and personal progress. others compete but use it only as a metod for checking that their training is going in the right direction. At the same time many involved in aikido is searching for tangible results for their training outside regular waza.

I think it´s more a difference in mindset of the individual rather than the art itself.
I don't think it is, at least not in terms of the original topic. What if a mid-career cagefighter decides he really needs to add eight hours per week of yoga to his training regimen. Does this make yoga a combat sport?

My point is that you look at the objective of a training system, what it is trying to produce in the trainee. There aren't clear lines, and the argumentative types on this board will not have a difficult time finding grey areas. But I think a little common sense will show you that MMA is not evolving towards producing spiritually balanced, enlightened leaders of men who can express cosmic truths through their movement, or whatever. And Aikido is not evolving into a ring-dominating system or the de facto assasination system of the world's special operators.

The point about MMA that I am harping on is that the ring is an extremely circumscribed arena and the pressure is on the coach to figure out what works there, and not to quickly drop and forget techniques and types of training that don't work there or take too long to master to a sufficient level.
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Old 04-17-2011, 01:30 PM   #29
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: MMA not a MA?

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
But I think a little common sense will show you that MMA is not evolving towards producing spiritually balanced, enlightened leaders of men who can express cosmic truths through their movement, or whatever.
But aikido is full of them.

Quote:
And Aikido is not evolving into a ring-dominating system or the de facto assasination system of the world's special operators.
Doesn' need to, but

Quote:
if a martial art remains free of the business of having to succeed in a sporting environment, then it can become a place where deep principals and impossible techniques are studied.
or a place for delusion, cultish behaviour, brain washing, larping, psudo philosophizing, et cetera.
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Old 04-17-2011, 02:19 PM   #30
Erick Mead
 
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Re: MMA not a MA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
But aikido is full of them.
Aikido, like MMA, is possessed of many who are full of it...

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
or a place for delusion, cultish behaviour, brain washing, larping, psudo philosophizing, et cetera.
If one trains with anything less than a deadly serious intention, it is not really a martial art that anyone should take seriously, and this includes a fair swath of aikido, IMO, as it does much else. If one begins to WANT the seriously deadly consequences -- then one is likewise entering into the opposite end of the "place for delusion, cultish behaviour, brain washing, larping, pseudo philosophizing, et cetera."

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
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Old 04-17-2011, 04:37 PM   #31
Cliff Judge
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Re: MMA not a MA?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
But aikido is full of them.

Doesn' need to, but

or a place for delusion, cultish behaviour, brain washing, larping, psudo philosophizing, et cetera.
This all supports my point. Thanks.
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Old 04-17-2011, 04:55 PM   #32
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: MMA not a MA?

Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
This all supports my point. Thanks.
You're welcome.
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