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Old 01-06-2006, 03:50 PM   #51
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

heh. I'm with Roy.

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
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"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
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Old 01-06-2006, 04:16 PM   #52
Kevin Leavitt
 
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

I'd probably put my 20 on Jason as well.

Also, I think you will find that what goes on in the ring is pretty close to what happens in "real combat" from a close quarters combat perspective. This is why we in the military are studying MMA UFC style these days...not because we are bored and have nothing better to do with our time. Pretty much anything outside of grappling range we are either running away or using some other object that is much more lethal or immobilizing than "empty hand".

Ditto as well on what Wendy has to say about small joing manipulation...fingers mainly. Tons of other things that you can do from kotegaehsi, to toe holds and twisting knee locks etc.

The basic aiki princples will be there..they always are, but again, who cares if it is labeled aikido?

Dave Valdez. Great post as usual!

Also, those that are making light of Jason getting into the ring. Well I don't think you probably have ever been trained with a "professional". It would humble you to the point that you would not be makin these kind of comments about them. I don't think you'd last more than 15 seconds on your first irimi before the ref pulled the guy off you. There is much more skill in these guys than you think! Don't think they don't understand "aiki" principles...they do more than you think!
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Old 01-06-2006, 04:36 PM   #53
wendyrowe
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Quote:
Mike Fugate wrote:
Who wants to see Steven Seagal vs. Jason Delucia? I got 20 bucks on Take Sensei
Funny you should say that. The way the famous dojo challenge fight between Jason and Royce Gracie (the video is commonly known as "Royce Gracie vs. Kung Fu" where the Kung Fu guy is wearing yellow trunks) came about was that Jason was camped out in town trying to fight Steven Seagal because of the challenge SS issued in Black Belt Magazine. He went to Steven Seagal's dojo every day and SS never accepted the challenge; but at least Jason got to watch a lot of Haruo Matsuoka Sensei's Aikido classes and take the Gracie challenge while he was there. The Gracie Challenge led to his UFC fights, starting him on the path to where he's at today. Everything happens for a reason.

So your suggesting that here might fit in even better than you'd thought!
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Old 01-06-2006, 05:43 PM   #54
Saji Jamakin
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Straight Face Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Quote:
Wendy Rowe wrote:
Cage Rage rules are the same as UFC, except for a weird new "open guard" rule that isn't particularly relevant to this discussion.

"No small joint manipulation" rules out grabbing a finger or two and cranking them, for instance, but doesn't rule out irimi and ikkyo and tons of Aikido techniques.
Well then....it is possible to train in Aikido specifically for these types of matches. The only drawback is tha you have to include some type of offense in your strategy and Aikido is defensive relying on the opponents Ki to blend with or as in Tomiki to steal/snatch. I still remember the UFC reality show where we followed the MMA fighters throughout there training that in those matches turning the head in anyway was not allowed. So I looked in the rules I figured small joints were elbows, shoulders and wrists since I never see any type of that stuff being done in the MMA matches. Just arm-bars.

Last edited by Saji Jamakin : 01-06-2006 at 05:46 PM.
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Old 01-06-2006, 06:12 PM   #55
wendyrowe
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Quote:
Saji Jamakin wrote:
... The only drawback is tha you have to include some type of offense in your strategy and Aikido is defensive relying on the opponents Ki to blend with or as in Tomiki to steal/snatch...
But remember, in your defense you can bait your opponent into attacking in a predictable way, say by leaving an opening or by moving in a way that leads your opponent to choose a particular attack so you'll have him where you want him. And since the match keeps moving, it's not like two people standing there and one never being able to attack. Once the attack begins, one move leads to another and you can see everything you do as always defending against the attack he just made and setting him up to make his next attack something you'll be ready for. It's like in randori, where you might start out considering one person uki and one nage but after the first moves the role distinctions are lost.
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Old 01-06-2006, 06:39 PM   #56
Mike Fugate
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Smile Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Quote:
Wendy Rowe wrote:
Funny you should say that. The way the famous dojo challenge fight between Jason and Royce Gracie (the video is commonly known as "Royce Gracie vs. Kung Fu" where the Kung Fu guy is wearing yellow trunks) came about was that Jason was camped out in town trying to fight Steven Seagal because of the challenge SS issued in Black Belt Magazine. He went to Steven Seagal's dojo every day and SS never accepted the challenge; but at least Jason got to watch a lot of Haruo Matsuoka Sensei's Aikido classes and take the Gracie challenge while he was there. The Gracie Challenge led to his UFC fights, starting him on the path to where he's at today. Everything happens for a reason.

So your suggesting that here might fit in even better than you'd thought!
Wow, I was just messing around trying to lighten up this place, BUT this I did not know. You never know Seagal may have been busy making a movie. According to Seagal, many tried to defy him in Japan and tried to prove his Aikido ineffective but they were the ones proved wrong. Im sure Sean Ravens would know about the credibilty of the instance you are speaking of. Kewl Stuff, but I still say Seagal would kick his ass

"When you cease to strive to understand, then you will know without understanding." -- Caine
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Old 01-07-2006, 12:56 AM   #57
xuzen
 
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Quote:
Wendy Rowe wrote:
Funny you should say that. The way the famous dojo challenge fight between Jason and Royce Gracie (the video is commonly known as "Royce Gracie vs. Kung Fu" where the Kung Fu guy is wearing yellow trunks) came about was that Jason was camped out in town trying to fight Steven Seagal because of the challenge SS issued in Black Belt Magazine. He went to Steven Seagal's dojo every day and SS never accepted the challenge; but at least Jason got to watch a lot of Haruo Matsuoka Sensei's Aikido classes and take the Gracie challenge while he was there. The Gracie Challenge led to his UFC fights, starting him on the path to where he's at today. Everything happens for a reason.

So your suggesting that here might fit in even better than you'd thought!
Wendy, I saw the video. Just a question, was Jason already an aikido practitioner when that vidoe was taken or was he still a pure 5 animal kungfu stylist at that time?

Boon.

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Old 01-07-2006, 04:29 AM   #58
Jorx
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Just a note: wristlocks are allowed almost in every promotion. They just do not happen because these are low-percentage techniques. I do not know if ever a MMA match has ended due to a wristlock. Quite some in BJJ though - mostly gokyo type.
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Old 01-07-2006, 06:52 AM   #59
wendyrowe
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Quote:
Xu Wenfung wrote:
Wendy, I saw the video. Just a question, was Jason already an aikido practitioner when that vidoe was taken or was he still a pure 5 animal kungfu stylist at that time?

Boon.
At the time of the dojo challenge, Jason's highest rank was in 5 Animal Kung Fu, he called himself a Kung Fu practitioner, and he had not yet gone to Japan and been introduced to the Honbu.

What muddies the water slightly is that he was already studying martial arts when he was young (mainly tae kwan do first, but also kung fu, kenpo and uechi ryu), so he was never a "pure" anything thanks to the varied exposure. And says he saw O'Sensei on TV when he was around 8 or 9 and was very inspired by him. On aikidog.com he said that "it was easy to see mr.ueshiba wasn't relying on any one technique ,but a way .and i instinctively knew through constantly distilling this knowledge i would come to the same way." So you could say that he was a Kung Fu practitioner with Aiki tendencies even before he started training in Aikido.
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Old 01-07-2006, 09:23 AM   #60
JasonFDeLucia
 
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Quote:
Mike Fugate wrote:
Who wants to see Steven Seagal vs. Jason Delucia? I got 20 bucks on Take Sensei
i've always envisioned an empty handed match with rules of sumo ,judo ,or strictly sword hand , or any rules he decides .i never met the man but it would be an honor .
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Old 01-07-2006, 07:25 PM   #61
Mike Fugate
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Wink Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Jason,
I was just trying to spice this place up since almost everyone has an opinion of Steven Seagal whether it be good or bad. lol. But After reading your comment about the situatuation I like ya. You appeared to be humble and not cocky, at least what I have seen. Most would assume a match with Seegal a joke, you said it would be an honor. Thats awsome, and yes I understand alot of what you have said since I have been reading up on your site. To me studying O-Mei Kungfu allowed me to better understand Aikido since these techniques are in Kung fu origanally. But to me Aikido is a very natural feeling art to my soul. Best of Luck in you match

"When you cease to strive to understand, then you will know without understanding." -- Caine
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Old 04-02-2011, 11:43 AM   #62
brent drubin
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

too bad steven seagal is not as good an actor as he is a martial artist. as a matter of fact he is cheesey. he makes horrible movies and comes off as an egotistical person, making comments of whose ass he can kick. yeah...that's very aikido-like.

i think his best role in a film was "executive decision", where he gets killed in the first 10 minutes of the movie.
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Old 04-02-2011, 03:43 PM   #63
Janet Rosen
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Wow a five year old thread resurrected....

Janet Rosen
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Old 04-02-2011, 07:47 PM   #64
Michael Varin
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Re: A Chance to see Aikido in MMA

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote:
Wow a five year old thread resurrected....
Yes.

And one with such significant and insightful discussion...

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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