Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-21-2011, 10:41 AM   #51
AsimHanif
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 494
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

I think these below are great exercises which emphasize trapping, taisabaki, and countering at a much more realistic distance than what we see in most aikido practice.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6PYLm...eature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MeZ9jhnl2S4
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 10:57 AM   #52
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,182
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Quote:
David Valadez wrote: View Post
Underneath, I have been thinking about something else. It has bothered me for quite a while now.

It starts like this:

Kihon Waza is a training in basics. Basics by default assume the presence of non-basic material, what is commonly referred to as advanced material. Think of it like this: You can't have a basement until you have a first floor above it. You can't have basic material until you have advanced material. As the point of a basement is to build upon it, the (or at least a) point of basic material is to build upon it.

So, when you talk about basic material, it begs the question: What is the advanced material? What are Aikidoka building when they build upon their basic material?

For most of us, advanced material has become a matter of doing basic material faster or harder. For a few of us, advanced material has become a matter of cultivating the inner essences of basic material. Still, while I can understand that there is a sophistication involved with these things, I still see these things as a cultivation of basic material - as basic, as a basement. There's no expanding; there is only a reinforcing. True, that reinforcing is necessary, but it cannot be equating to an expanding of basic material.

One might ask, "Why is this an issue?" One might say, "Folks can do a lot with basic structures once they have mastered Aiki or Kokyu or once they have become fast and strong." "What is lacking?"

Well, I think, one can learn a lot about basements when they are put to the task of having to built upon it. I think when you have to build, for example, 50 stories on top of a basement, you not only come to learn new things about basements, but you also come to learn essential things about basements.

In the same way, when you are expected to build upon, expand upon, your basic material, you come to gain new insight into that material. For that reason, if we are truly valuing basic material, it seems it is in our interest to attempt to generate something "advance" - something where we take a basic construct and use it to build something else, something more complex, something more detailed, something more difficult to construct, something more dynamic, etc.

That's how I came upon these knife disarms. While these dynamic fulcrum disarms are performed all over the place, the mechanics therein are also found in Aikido basic waza.

For example, Disarm I is merely a dynamic version of the mechanics used to pry the knife out uke's arm at the conclusion of tanto-dori tsuki kote-gaeshi. Disarm II is the same te-sabaki from hanmi-handachi katate-dori shiho nage omote. And, Disarm III employs the same mechanics of kote-gaeshi.

Now, I'm not saying one should not train in basics. Nor am I saying that the essences of basics can be done without. Both of these things are of the utmost priority. However, equally, should be our quest to be able to understand our basics to a point where we can employ them in new and expanded ways.

I offer this here, because, in my opinion, the biggest problem facing Aikido as a martial art and as a spiritual path today is that it is experiencing what I call a "museum death." Think of an ancient water pot that was excavated and stuck in a museum - where the pot is admired and studied for a whole bunch of other reasons that had nothing to do with why it was first admired - where the pot is never again used for carrying water. In that museum death, the pot, that was once used to carry life, is now partitioned off from life. It is killed - it dies a museum death and it does so in the name of preservation.

Sometimes, when we never look to expand upon our basic material, we end up with a fetishism of that material. In that fetishism, we end up killing our art, and often in the name of preservation. We in turn study our art for a whole bunch of reasons that had nothing to do with the art when it was a alive. In turn, we all become art critics and museum curators - a kind of sub-group of martial artists, hardly warriors.

That seems problematic to me.

dmv
That is an excellent observation! When the art was alive, O sensei clearly leaded it as a pursuit of spiritual development through the martial techniques. On can observe it by studying Founder life right from the beginning of XX century. Here on Aikiweb the column written by Peter Goldsbury explains it with great details.

After Founder passing, some students abandoned spiritual aspect and continued with only physical techniques, others tried to develop spiritual side of art without carry on martial techniques. Such situation resulted now in many deformations, and the art of M. Ueshiba becoming forgotten.

Martial techniques (as you call it ‘basement') and spiritual goals (‘advance material') nourish themselves mutually, and can't be separated. That is only way in my opinion to preserve aikido alive.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 02:33 PM   #53
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

I only looked at the top vid, but I really like the drill and the way she moves. BUT I would never do that in (OMG) **Real Life**. For me, not entering deeper than she does is a death sentence against a knife fighter (OK, sure, I'm probably dead no matter what). If I sucseed in one of the passes, I'm going in and through...not standing waiting for the next cut/thrust, which will almost certainly get me. Just my passing thoughts...

Just looked at that drill again, I counted at least 3 easy aikido waza entries from her movement...step in throw, first control, hijishime...nice stuff.

Best,
Ron (and I mean it, I love the way she moves...remind me never to fight either of them)

PS Hey Mr. S, good posts!

Last edited by Ron Tisdale : 03-21-2011 at 02:38 PM.

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 02:50 PM   #54
AsimHanif
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 494
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

I agree Ron. After the first pass, entering deep is prob your best shot. I like the drill though. Very good shift/deflect movements.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 02:54 PM   #55
Ron Tisdale
Dojo: Doshinkan dojo in Roxborough, Pa
Location: Phila. Pa
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 4,614
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Hi Asim! And notice where she steps on those passes...very much to the sokomen iriminage position used by many Aikikai "styles"...I think...

Best,
Ron

Ron Tisdale
-----------------------
"The higher a monkey climbs, the more you see of his behind."
St. Bonaventure (ca. 1221-1274)
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 04:30 PM   #56
sorokod
Join Date: Sep 2008
Posts: 716
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

One more by the penjak-silat guy: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lLWZhuwV5DQ

Lovely; irimi, atemi and kokyunage.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 05:03 PM   #57
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,426
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
I agree that Nage has to be able to deal with an attack from any distance. However why the initial distance is very important, particularly for black belt level - because from such exaggerated distance in most cases the attacker will over commit (that is clearly visible on the video). This automatic over commitment allows Nage to develop a false technique - Nage will never learn how to create an opening in the attack (I.E. lead attacker to over commit his attack) as in every attack the opening already exist. It will build also false confidence in Nage mind as he becomes comfortable. And being comfortable in front of armed attacker is a deadly situation.

I believe there are clearly distinctive initial distances for jo, bokken, tanto and empty hand techniques. So mixing this distances means for me misunderstanding of martial context of encounter.

I wrote nothing about any kind of ‘reality' in the context of tanto training.

You wrote about "trapping the knife'. I think it is physically impossible to do without large over commitment of attacker AND his passive behavior after failed attack. That is the reason why I prefer to stick to the principle of controlling attacker center by using his elbow (or shoulder for example). I see a tanto as merely extension of his body so it can't be a main goal of the technique.
You'll have to point out what you mean by over committed in the video (mine). Perhaps we have a different opinion of what that term means.

As for things like "misunderstanding," again, perhaps we have a different orientation or perspective to our training. I know, for example, my does not have any connection to "black belt" or lack thereof. This in turn would lead me to a different conclusion than you: for example, I do not hold that a knife works at a different distance than empty hand. Again, perhaps you can provide a video or point one out to show what you mean. Because as of now, I have no idea.

please/thanks.
d

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-21-2011, 09:00 PM   #58
NagaBaba
 
NagaBaba's Avatar
Location: Wild, deep, deadly North
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,182
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Hi Ron, nice to see you posting again!
David, forget whatever I wrote. It is not so important. Honestly, I shouldn't write at all.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 05:06 AM   #59
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,075
Spain
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Quote:
David Valadez wrote: View Post
For me, whenever I see or hear an instructor start talking about reality and what it doesn't consist of, I don't think they've been in many real situations themselves. For me, it's a red flag, and I think it should be one for everyone.
I turn the sound off. I only watch, analyze and test the waza. I'm tired of listening to what is "real", what is not and assorted byzantine discussions, the only thing that matters if if the waza works.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-23-2011, 11:08 AM   #60
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,645
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
I turn the sound off. I only watch, analyze and test the waza. I'm tired of listening to what is "real", what is not and assorted byzantine discussions, the only thing that matters if if the waza works.
This is a good point. You constantly see people discussing what is "real". There is no need to discuss real, just experience it, everything is "real". What works is another issue. The only way you're going to figure out what works is to try it.

  Reply With Quote
Old 03-24-2011, 02:11 PM   #61
Insane Duane
 
Insane Duane's Avatar
Dojo: TenShin Budo Kai
Location: Washington
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
This is a good point. You constantly see people discussing what is "real". There is no need to discuss real, just experience it, everything is "real". What works is another issue. The only way you're going to figure out what works is to try it.
I agree with you but I do make the distinction between "real" and "realistic". To me "real" encompasses pretty much everything (expect the unexpected), "realistic" is mimicking an attack with the intent of hurting the nage (making sure you don't try to counter the known technique just because you know what is coming). I know the preceding statement will possibly be interpreted differently than what I meant so I'll expand. Realistic to me means that the uke is "attacking" the nage, not going through the motions. I understand that the nage will first have to learn the technique but then the nage should experience a "realistic" attack to work on a more dynamic technique instead of having every attack the same. Play with it, have the uke move around and not telegraph, change the angles slightly. Have the uke fight back if the opportunity arises instead of assisting the nages technique but going into auto uke mode. This is what I mean by "realistic".
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-04-2011, 01:34 PM   #62
Insane Duane
 
Insane Duane's Avatar
Dojo: TenShin Budo Kai
Location: Washington
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Here are a couple videos I made the other night. I didn't have an uke so I went over some basics. Please give me an honest opinion and how these can be improved. Hopefully I will be able to film tonight at the dojo showing how we do our techniques.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jm2rMm2KxpU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XJVCt2hI-yo
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 11:34 AM   #63
Insane Duane
 
Insane Duane's Avatar
Dojo: TenShin Budo Kai
Location: Washington
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

I was able to train last Monday with some junior students and made the following video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MindnGYUEe8

Hopefully we will do some tanto waza this coming Monday.

After reviewing the video I am able to see many things that I need to improve on and I think I will start making videos part of my normal practice so I can critique them. What a great tool.

All honest comments are welcome and appreciated. I hope I am not "hijacking" David Valadez's thread but I felt this a good place to post since he started this thread regarding videos.

Peace
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 03:38 PM   #64
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,426
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

No man - it's appreciated.

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 03:44 PM   #65
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,426
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Okay - I can't really comment on the first video. On the third video:

I like it. I like it because I can see you are engaging the art. I say, "Keep it up!"

In the third video, and anticipation of you running the above mentioned knife exercise, you had the guy come in with jodan tsuki. In response, you execute kote-gaeshi. If your interpretation of the suggested exercise is going to have you just stick a knife in the uke's hand, please let me point out again: uke's job is to repeated stab/cut at you. As a result, not only should their arm being moving all over the place as fast as possible (which is what makes catching the wrist very difficult, if not impossible), their body too should be moving all over the place in an attempt to gain as many cutting angles. (i.e. uke should not just take one step in and stand there waiting to be thrown). This kind of dynamic movement is a priori present in a violent encounter. It is often absent from kihon waza - which makes sense since such training is a matter of acquiring basics.

This is why my option in the three disarms was to address the knife in the midst of its initial thrust in the midst of the uke's initial movement.

Also - while you are running that experiment, run through the three disarms. Let's see what you get and what questions might arise from that.

Please. Thanks so much,
d

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 04:54 PM   #66
Insane Duane
 
Insane Duane's Avatar
Dojo: TenShin Budo Kai
Location: Washington
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Thanks for the reply! Since my training time is currently limited to only 3 hours every 2 weeks I don't have time to experiment too much. Luckily my training days coincide with another higher ranking aikidoka so we should be able to practice in an even more dynamic fashion than my previous video. If we are able to do tanto waza I will make sure we do the multiple knife thrusts (or atleast attempt to). I/we have experimented with quick, multiple slashes but tsuki thrusts defense techniques are typically executed on the first thrust.

It good to hear about other people experimenting with attacks vs sticking only to traditional techniques!
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 06:18 PM   #67
aikidoc
Dojo: Aikido of Midland
Location: Midland Texas
Join Date: Dec 2000
Posts: 1,652
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

For what it's worth, I disagree with the approach for yokomenuchi. As you open up, you are exposed for an atemi (jab)to the face. I prefer to move off the line and turn into the side of the head or neck while delivering the strike in a shomenuchi fashion or at least down the center line and turning the wrist slightly out at the last second in a snapping motion. The strike is a strike to the side of the head, it does not have to come in with the arm moving to the side exposing the center line. Just MHO.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2011, 11:04 PM   #68
Charles Hill
Dojo: Numazu Aikikai/Aikikai Honbu Dojo
Location: Three Lakes WI/ Mishima Japan
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 837
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Hey Duane,

Nice work. My advice would be to work with your ukes on ukemi more. You are moving a beat or two ahead of them and it is causing them to stiffen up. Take a look at David's videos and you will see that his uke move right with him. My guess is that David spends a fair amount of class time on ukemi skills. I also will guess that he is very aware of how they are reacting and adjusts accordingly.

Of the Seagal influenced aikido, Matsuoka Sensei's is the best in my opinion. His movement is nice and sharp, but he clearly trains his ukes well. I suspect that this is due to two things, his personality and the fact that he has taken so much ukemi himself.
  Reply With Quote
Old 04-08-2011, 12:20 AM   #69
Insane Duane
 
Insane Duane's Avatar
Dojo: TenShin Budo Kai
Location: Washington
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 31
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Quote:
John Riggs wrote: View Post
For what it's worth, I disagree with the approach for yokomenuchi. As you open up, you are exposed for an atemi (jab)to the face. Just MHO.
Thank you for your opinion John. I would typically be moving and have my other hand ready for a counter attack when actually attacking vs a warm up drill but I see your point. Now that I'm recording I'll examine it once I get some yokomenuchi on film.

Quote:
Charles Hill wrote:
My advice would be to work with your ukes on ukemi more. You are moving a beat or two ahead of them and it is causing them to stiffen up.
Hello Charles,

I agree. I should have slowed it down a bit since they are lower ranking and don't have their ukeme skills up to that level of speed. Also, both are very stiff and haven't learned how to relax (it took me many years to realize that I wasn't actually relaxed and then I made an effort to become relaxed) This coming Monday the other higher ranking aikidoka should be there so we should have some smoother action.

Quote:
Of the Seagal influenced aikido, Matsuoka Sensei's is the best in my opinion.
I am in total agreement with you. I have all 12 DVD's (Ikazuchi.com) and think they are great. When the dojo first started we were being influenced by Luis Santos (student of Seagal) (we were part of the TAF and he gave us some seminars). After some strange events happened we became unaffiliated with him and then Jaime Calderon (another student of Seagal) came and put on a seminar. We also went to Calderon's dojo in Chico for another seminar. I like Calderon, watching him is what started me on the road to relaxation. Santos's stance is more aggressive and caused me to be tense, Calderon's is much more relaxed. Now we are studying Matsuoka's videos and tweaking our technique. It's the journey, right?
  Reply With Quote
Old 05-29-2011, 03:18 PM   #70
senshincenter
 
senshincenter's Avatar
Dojo: Senshin Center
Location: Dojo Address: 193 Turnpike Rd. Santa Barbara, CA.
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,426
United_States
Offline
Re: YouTube: Senshin Center New Video

Here's one more:

http://youtu.be/jGFr-LPIa-o

Had a camera up for some Jiyu Waza basic training. My opinion is that Jiyu Waza training is at the heart of the art and is often not practiced enough - i.e. not reflective of being the heart of the art. If you got some Jiyu Waza videos, please post them. Let's share how we take on this type of training, or why we may opt not to, etc.

Please/thanks,
d

David M. Valadez
Visit our web site for articles and videos. Senshin Center - A Place for Traditional Martial Arts in Santa Barbara.
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Off Center, and into the Zone R.A. Robertson Columns 2 12-18-2009 03:32 PM
YouTube Video - "Ima Juku impressie" arjandevries General 16 09-14-2009 10:37 AM
YouTube: Aikido Demo Video danielab1924 General 49 04-26-2009 03:07 AM
YouTube: Video of my Sensei doing randori Fox Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 45 04-24-2009 04:28 PM
YouTube Video: Shiho Nage Study fudoshin9 Techniques 0 08-15-2008 06:08 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 07:09 AM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate