Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Training

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-07-2011, 10:34 AM   #51
jurasketu
Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 137
United_States
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Mary-

I couldn't locate a source for the quotation Stirling gives about warriors. Can you post a link or something? His definition doesn't square with (a) the dictionary (b) the encyclopedia (c) any contemporary slang usage I've ever heard (d) or mention in any of the military histories I've ever read (250+ books covering the entire span of human history).

Technically, the dictionary says a warrior is literally "one who wages war" or just "soldier". Which is kind of a "duh". It also lists the more contemporary civilian usage referring to sports and corporate competition.

Generally speaking, the bulk of historical evidence is that undisciplined "warriors" don't fare well in combat against disciplined "warriors".

Robin

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 10:36 AM   #52
jurasketu
Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 137
United_States
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Tony/Henry-

Man. Guys... The good points you guys make get lost when you act like Internet Trolls. Harsh banter can be fun and acceptable in person but it doesn't work well at all on the Internet.

Robin

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 10:45 AM   #53
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote: View Post
Tony/Henry-

Man. Guys... The good points you guys make get lost when you act like Internet Trolls. Harsh banter can be fun and acceptable in person but it doesn't work well at all on the Internet.

Robin
Part of being a "warrior" is being able to take it, as well as give it.... It was part of the training when I was in the Mob. It wouldn't hurt some on this site to sign up yourselves and do a bit of worrying or warrioring, then you would find out.....
I believe conscription is still in force over the pond. It's voluntary here and one can be made redundant!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 10:56 AM   #54
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 641
England
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Part of being a "warrior" is being able to take it, as well as give it.... It was part of the training when I was in the Mob. It wouldn't hurt some on this site to sign up yourselves and do a bit of worrying or warrioring, then you would find out.....
I believe conscription is still in force over the pond. It's voluntary here and one can be made redundant!!
Tony

You are so insensitive to many humourless members of this forum.
I think you should be banned again ( add me

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 11:00 AM   #55
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

You are so insensitive to many humourless members of this forum.
I think you should be banned again ( add me

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
Who me insensitive Henry?

What made you think that.....
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 11:07 AM   #56
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,164
United_States
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote: View Post
Mary-

I couldn't locate a source for the quotation Stirling gives about warriors. Can you post a link or something? His definition doesn't square with (a) the dictionary (b) the encyclopedia (c) any contemporary slang usage I've ever heard (d) or mention in any of the military histories I've ever read (250+ books covering the entire span of human history).
He is a fiction writer. His books are works of fiction. He speaks through the voices of his characters, who are not real people. He is not writing a dictionary or an encyclopedia, whether a traditional one or one of contemporary slang, and he is not writing scholarly works of military history. He uses the term "warrior" to mean one thing. Graham uses "warrior" to mean something else. In my experience, people on Aikiweb generally use "warrior" in a rather ego-gratifying way, to be honest -- they're using "warrior" to fit their fantasies, and then arguing with other people about who's more warriorly. But nobody owns the word, not you, not me, not Graham, not S M Stirling, and not your 250+ books of military history -- so maybe it's time to stop squabbling and trying to own it. Or, alternately, maybe it's time to stop granting the term such stupidly slavish respect. When the word "warrior" can't be used without the testosterone stench starting to rise, maybe it's better abandoned altogether.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 11:52 AM   #57
jurasketu
Dojo: Roswell Budokan
Location: Roswell GA
Join Date: Nov 2010
Posts: 137
United_States
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Aw man, Tony. I'm too old for military service. As a young man, I worked 5+ years as a carpenter (framing houses and office buildings), so verbal abuse doesn't even register with me and enduring physical suffering and discomfort I understand to a fair degree. I even understand what its like to suffer or risk harm to prevent a more serious injury or death to someone else - because I did more than once.

But calling me "humorless" - now that really hurts. You and Henry are funny - but I was just trying to point out that it comes across the wrong way.

Mary - Ah... I understand your point better now. Admittedly, I readily enjoy squabbling over the meaning of things.

Robin

All paths lead to death. I strongly recommend taking one of the scenic routes.
AWA - Nidan - Started Aikido training in 2008
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 12:48 PM   #58
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 1,220
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote: View Post
Aw man, Tony. I'm too old for military service. As a young man, I worked 5+ years as a carpenter (framing houses and office buildings), so verbal abuse doesn't even register with me and enduring physical suffering and discomfort I understand to a fair degree. I even understand what its like to suffer or risk harm to prevent a more serious injury or death to someone else - because I did more than once.

But calling me "humorless" - now that really hurts. You and Henry are funny - but I was just trying to point out that it comes across the wrong way.
Mary - Ah... I understand your point better now. Admittedly, I readily enjoy squabbling over the meaning of things.

Robin
Hi Robin,

There's not a massive amount of humour to be had here on Aikiweb, we all seem to take things pretty seriously. Fun does get poked, but it is pretty kyu grade stuff. There are a few high grades around, at the monent Phi Truong is easily the best practitioner, his technique is pretty effortless. He can playfully burst a pompus bubble with a sharp observation. Irreverence, cheek and a healthy dollop of self depreciation, a true jestoka.

Tony and Henry are a bit like Statler and Waldorf (but without the benefit of script writers), when they get going. I hope they have sense of humour enough to see the funny side of that

There was a brit on here a while back (Ian Hurst - Happysod), now he was funny. Come back Ian, we need you...

playful regards

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 12:56 PM   #59
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Robin Johnson wrote: View Post
Aw man, Tony. I'm too old for military service. As a young man, I worked 5+ years as a carpenter (framing houses and office buildings), so verbal abuse doesn't even register with me and enduring physical suffering and discomfort I understand to a fair degree. I even understand what its like to suffer or risk harm to prevent a more serious injury or death to someone else - because I did more than once.

But calling me "humorless" - now that really hurts. You and Henry are funny - but I was just trying to point out that it comes across the wrong way.

Mary - Ah... I understand your point better now. Admittedly, I readily enjoy squabbling over the meaning of things.

Robin
Robin, If that is the case, then you would still find it humorous, Us Brits do have a tendency for dryness and sardonic wit and I/We must have thicker skins than we realise? Or am I to blunt? Yes I am..... One of my faults I suppose, but I do have a wicked sense of humour and I'm sorry if it offends you that much.....

Take care buddy
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 01:07 PM   #60
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 641
England
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Tony

The funny little faces ? well, they are no longer funny.

Perhaps we can start a thread on the British economy, we can then all be miserable and depressed.

Henry Ellis
Positive Aikido
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 01:16 PM   #61
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

The funny little faces ? well, they are no longer funny.

Perhaps we can start a thread on the British economy, we can then all be miserable and depressed.

Henry Ellis
Positive Aikido
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
Precisely Sensei...
With our economy we need a good sense of humour...
We have sod all else at present....
Will stop using little green man, can you suggest an alternative?
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 01:20 PM   #62
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Mark Freeman wrote: View Post
Hi Robin,

There's not a massive amount of humour to be had here on Aikiweb, we all seem to take things pretty seriously. Fun does get poked, but it is pretty kyu grade stuff. There are a few high grades around, at the monent Phi Truong is easily the best practitioner, his technique is pretty effortless. He can playfully burst a pompus bubble with a sharp observation. Irreverence, cheek and a healthy dollop of self depreciation, a true jestoka.

Tony and Henry are a bit like Statler and Waldorf (but without the benefit of script writers), when they get going. I hope they have sense of humour enough to see the funny side of that

There was a brit on here a while back (Ian Hurst - Happysod), now he was funny. Come back Ian, we need you...

playful regards

Mark
Mark, who's Statler & Waldorf? I thought we were more like Morcambe & Wise....
Happysod sounds good....
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 01:37 PM   #63
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,266
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Mark, who's Statler & Waldorf? I thought we were more like Morcambe & Wise....
Happysod sounds good....
Stattler and Waldorf-sounds like couple of run down motels where I have bedded down in the U.S.A.
Cheers, Joe.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 01:44 PM   #64
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Stattler and Waldorf-sounds like couple of run down motels where I have bedded down in the U.S.A.
Cheers, Joe.
Ha, ha...!!
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 01:46 PM   #65
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind


Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 01:56 PM   #66
dps
Join Date: Apr 2006
Posts: 2,300
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Mark, who's Statler & Waldorf? I thought we were more like Morcambe & Wise....
Happysod sounds good....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0IVFa...eature=related

dps
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 03:20 PM   #67
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Isn't there a distinction between the two.
One is for fighting and the other for fun?

dps

I
Give that man the Kewpie doll !!!

Jodie Lives!

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 03:23 PM   #68
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
IMHO, the distinction isn't the weapon or the occupation, but the person.
The distinction is the nature of the desire of the person for the weapon.

All human evil begins as a spiritual evil. A sword is a shiny chunk of refined rocks...

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 04:16 PM   #69
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
Location: london
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 2,697
England
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
He's a writer of fiction, Graham. He's got a good grasp of military history, and I'm sure he could cite many examples for you of warrior societies in which it was far more than the "odd arrogant one" who was a glory-seeker. As for Maasai and samurai "warriors", that's history if you're rigorous -- if you take the trouble to study and find out what they were really like, instead of telling yourself fancy stories. It's not here and it's not now. People love that word "warrior", but what do they even mean by it, and what relevance does it have to the contemporary reality of their lives? I think in most cases, it's a tenuous connection at best.
Mary,I know it's fiction but you used the writer as an example didn't you?

Read the original post properly and you'll find it's about two different states of mind.

As far as warriors go in relation to the topic and just for you bringing it up to nearer present time I could give you a big list. It's nothing to do with male or testosterone either.

In fact I would say Florence Nightingale and Mother Theresa are good historical examples. The woman I saw in the Egypt conflict recently who just set up a stall with medical equipment out in the open whilst all the fighting was going on around her was also a great example.

You could have Ghandi, Mandela, Buddha, Jesus. You could have people you know. None of those busied theirselves fighting and arguing and blaming and complaining. They decided and acted without fear, with compassion and immovable mind and not may I add for glory.

True warriors all. Then along come the fighters and fight about it.
Same ol same ol.

Regards.G.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 08:15 PM   #70
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote: View Post
Aaaaaaah the muppets!!

Which one are you Henry....?

I look like the geezer on the left......
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-07-2011, 08:39 PM   #71
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,164
United_States
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Mary,I know it's fiction but you used the writer as an example didn't you?
That's right. It's an example of how no one owns the words, and anyone can make up a definition for them.

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Read the original post properly and you'll find it's about two different states of mind.
Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall...
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 02:22 AM   #72
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 641
England
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Tony
Aaaaaaah the muppets!!

Which one are you Henry....?

I look like the geezer on the left......
Tony

You are bringing humour and funny faces to the forum again.
. I can see you getting another reprimand...Please note this is a serious forum.
I am on my best behaviour.....I am going to ```cosy``` up to Graham and learn from a true worrier.

Henry Ellis
Aikido Articles
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 03:01 AM   #73
CitoMaramba
 
CitoMaramba's Avatar
Dojo: Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui Group Philippines
Location: Plymouth, UK
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 492
Philippines
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
That's right. It's an example of how no one owns the words, and anyone can make up a definition for them.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall...
Quote:
"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all."
Chapter 6 in Through the Looking-Glass, and What Alice Found There (1871), by Lewis Carroll

Inocencio Maramba, MD, MSc
Dangayan Singkaw Aikido Shinzui
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 08:38 AM   #74
Erick Mead
 
Erick Mead's Avatar
Dojo: Big Green Drum (W. Florida Aikikai)
Location: West Florida
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 2,614
United_States
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Inocencio Maramba wrote: View Post
Quote:
:
Mary Malmros wrote: That's right. It's an example of how no one owns the words, and anyone can make up a definition for them.

Humpty Dumpty sat on a wall, Humpty Dumpty had a great fall...
"When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, 'it means just what I choose it to mean — neither more nor less."
"The question is," said Alice, "whether you can make words mean so many different things."
"The question is," said Humpty Dumpty, "which is to be master— that's all."
Such wisdom in the auld rhymes ...

"... and all the King's horses and all the King's men,
couldn't put Humpty together again. "

Shatter the wholeness in the complex pattern of Truth, and you lose the Way -- and you are well and truly lost...

Cordially,

Erick Mead
一隻狗可久里馬房但他也不是馬的.
  Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2011, 08:45 AM   #75
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Re: Fighting Mind vs Warrior Mind

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Tony

You are bringing humour and funny faces to the forum again.
. I can see you getting another reprimand...Please note this is a serious forum.
I am on my best behaviour.....I am going to ```cosy``` up to Graham and learn from a true worrier.

Henry Ellis
Aikido Articles
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
Now that really worries me......
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
"Off-The-Mat" Forum akiy "Off-The-Mat" 6 06-02-2008 01:22 AM
How do you train/achieve nothingness? L. Camejo General 41 01-07-2007 09:19 PM
Does aikido train the mind? Kat.C Training 48 10-30-2005 07:49 AM
Cross-Training/Mixed-Discipline Fighting Bugs General 5 09-11-2005 01:43 PM
Who said this? Jim23 General 34 02-16-2001 03:18 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 08:55 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate