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Old 03-06-2011, 01:35 PM   #1
"last straw"
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dirty uniform

I have a question recently a young lady joined the dojo and I have noticed a lot of the students shy away from training with her but now I know why to much makeup and lipstick how can you tell this young lady to tone it down a bit without starting drama thanks
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Old 03-06-2011, 03:46 PM   #2
lbb
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Re: dirty uniform

I'd let some of the women in the dojo handle it -- this is an issue best handled in the women's dressing room, where someone can casually say, "Whoa, look at my gi! Who's wearing the makeup? Oh, it's you? See, this is why we don't wear makeup on the mat" etc.
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Old 03-06-2011, 04:03 PM   #3
philipsmith
Dojo: Ren Shin Kan
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Re: dirty uniform

Just tell her.

We give each new student a list of do's and dont's including things like length of fingernails, make-up etc.

Since we've done that (some years now) we haven't had a problem
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Old 03-06-2011, 09:45 PM   #4
ninjaqutie
 
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Re: dirty uniform

I would think it would be a bit more comfortable for this female to hear coming from another female, so I agree with Mary's suggestion. Maybe one of the girls there can show up in makeup, but then wash it off there and explain why she did it to the new girl. Either that or create a list of rules that you can give her.

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 03-06-2011, 11:39 PM   #5
Janet Rosen
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Re: dirty uniform

Is it just me or what????
I really don't think it's that big deal to say, Hey your lipstick stained my gi, would you mind taking it off before training next time?
I mean... if you are mature enough to show up and pay dues, what's the big frikkin' deal????

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:39 AM   #6
mrlizard123
Dojo: Templegate Dojo
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Is it just me or what????
I really don't think it's that big deal to say, Hey your lipstick stained my gi, would you mind taking it off before training next time?
I mean... if you are mature enough to show up and pay dues, what's the big frikkin' deal????
I agree with Janet on this; I think that as adults we should just be able to ask politely if they could leave the make up off when coming on the mat.

As long as it's approached with tact and not called out in front of the class or anything I cannot see why it would be a problem.

(so at least it's not just you Janet if you'll accept my company! )

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:43 AM   #7
lbb
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
I mean... if you are mature enough to show up and pay dues, what's the big frikkin' deal????
The "big frikkin' deal" is if you didn't already have a list of rules conspicuously posted -- then it becomes awkward. I agree it's common sense not to train in makeup -- or with anything other than very short nails, or while wearing jewelry of any kind, or in an unwashed gi. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, people in the US are going to think of a dojo as being like a gym, and people do all those things at a gym. If you've ever been in a gym and seen the way some women get all chicked out to work out, you should know that there's a cultural thing. Working with it seems like the sensible thing.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:54 AM   #8
mrlizard123
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
The "big frikkin' deal" is if you didn't already have a list of rules conspicuously posted -- then it becomes awkward. I agree it's common sense not to train in makeup -- or with anything other than very short nails, or while wearing jewelry of any kind, or in an unwashed gi. But I've said it before and I'll say it again, people in the US are going to think of a dojo as being like a gym, and people do all those things at a gym. If you've ever been in a gym and seen the way some women get all chicked out to work out, you should know that there's a cultural thing. Working with it seems like the sensible thing.
I think that the point is that it's not a big deal to discuss the situation with the student in a respectful fashion irrespective of published rules etc.

It might make one consider publishing such rules/guidelines for future reference but a polite discussion with a student shouldn't be a problem in my opinion.

I've had several discussions about appropriateness of clothing, removal of jewlery etc on numerous occasions with new starters and never had one take umbrage; maybe they were all outraged but too "British" to make a fuss though

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile
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Old 03-07-2011, 08:48 AM   #9
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: dirty uniform

Must remember to put my make up on next time I'm on the mat,
Make sure my handbaggo wa is tidy at my side.
Where's me lipstick dukky?
Do I look alright?


Ooooooh sailor you look lovely!!!
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Old 03-07-2011, 10:22 AM   #10
Basia Halliop
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Is it just me or what????
I really don't think it's that big deal to say, Hey your lipstick stained my gi, would you mind taking it off before training next time?
I mean... if you are mature enough to show up and pay dues, what's the big frikkin' deal????
Yeah, I'm with Janet. If there was something I was doing that was bothering other people, I'd rather they just told me right out in a normal (pleasant) way instead of being all 'diplomatic' and 'subtle', which makes it feel like it was really a huge deal. The more casual and matter of fact, the less awkward, IMO.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:42 PM   #11
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Must remember to put my make up on next time I'm on the mat,
Make sure my handbaggo wa is tidy at my side.
Where's me lipstick dukky?
Do I look alright?


Ooooooh sailor you look lovely!!!
Tony,
Just make sure your wig is nailed on securely and you false eyelashes are glued on . You look great - like Marilyn Monroe after a train wreck. Joe.
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:50 PM   #12
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Tony,
Just make sure your wig is nailed on securely and you false eyelashes are glued on . You look great - like Marilyn Monroe after a train wreck. Joe.
Blimey!! That tasty.....
As I stand with hand on hip, and the other one making flamboyant suggestions....

Tiny
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Old 03-07-2011, 01:51 PM   #13
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
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Re: dirty uniform

I'm from California, and the Left Coast to boot, but I still have a question: when did women become such delicate flowers that a polite and tactful request regarding make-up/lipstick/perfume become politically incorrect? To my neanderthal mind, it still seems reasonable for the aggrieved party to discretely speak up about a soiled uniform, regardless of gender.

And I think the gym comparison is faulty as well. Men and women go to a gym for different reasons than they train in Aikido. In the gym you generally find one of two classes of people; those who are out of shape and trying to improve, and those who are in good shape and proud to show off their tone and muscle development. In the dojo most folks are there to learn an art and aren't quite so interested in demonstrating their attractiveness.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:01 PM   #14
Janet Rosen
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Re: dirty uniform

When you start doing things in a gym that involve the possibility of smearing cosmetics on other people, then the same issue applies. I stand by my post; if some people insist on treating adult life as if they were in middle school, doesn't mean the rest of us have play into it.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:04 PM   #15
kewms
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Re: dirty uniform

Reminds me of the time some guy hadn't washed his feet and tracked dirt all over the mat. I loudly called him out for it, he hastily apologized and bowed out to take care of it, and it never happened again. If someone's head will explode because the owner of a makeup-smeared keiko gi complains, how will they ever deal with the other stress that comes with studying a martial art?

With that said, one doesn't necessarily want to blast beginners off the mat for their first etiquette infraction. So you might want to mention it more discreetly. Just be matter-of-fact about it: you don't care what she does off the mat, but remember that aikido is a full-contact practice.

Katherine
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:34 PM   #16
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: dirty uniform

Many moons ago, we had a particular feller who was a bit shy of soap and water...... I doesn't take much to imagine what it was like every time he raised his arms and parted his legs in what ever he happened to be doing. After a couple of sessions it became apparent who the offender was..... What we all did at the next session was all turned up with clothes line washing pegs at the ready....
When it was the turn of anybody to partner up as his uke we all donned the pegs to our hooters.
It had quite a surprising difference to his attitude and he never ever turned up stinking again..... He turned out to be quite a good aikidoka and we were sorry to lose him when he emigrated to Aussie....
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:41 PM   #17
lbb
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
I'm from California, and the Left Coast to boot, but I still have a question: when did women become such delicate flowers that a polite and tactful request regarding make-up/lipstick/perfume become politically incorrect?
Oh, honestly. Where did you get this "polite and tactful request" becoming "politically incorrect"? No one said or suggested any such thing. OP just asked for suggestions on how to handle the situation. People gave opinions. AFAIK no one criticized any suggestion saying "Oh wow no you can't do that, that's POLITICALLY INCORRECT!!!" So why the need to create this strawman?
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Old 03-07-2011, 02:42 PM   #18
lbb
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
When you start doing things in a gym that involve the possibility of smearing cosmetics on other people, then the same issue applies. I stand by my post; if some people insist on treating adult life as if they were in middle school, doesn't mean the rest of us have play into it.
Who did this, Janet? Who "insist[ed] on treating adult life as if they were in middle school"?
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:25 PM   #19
Michael Hackett
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Re: dirty uniform

Sorry Mary, I don't see the strawman either. Your suggestion that it best be handled by the other women of the dojo gave rise to my comment. I simply don't see any reason why any person in the dojo couldn't successfully speak to this woman in a polite and tactful way. Your advice sounded to me as if you considered it inappropriate that a male address the issue, thus suggesting to me that political correctness was rearing it's head. If that wasn't your intent, then I apologize. If it was, I will ask one of the women to offer you my apologies for offending you.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 03-07-2011, 03:58 PM   #20
dps
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Re: dirty uniform

Isn't sensei in charge of the class.

We had a similar situation at our dojo.
We complained to sensei and he told the woman.

dps
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:02 PM   #21
Janet Rosen
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Re: dirty uniform

There were suggestions it should be a woman making the suggestion, that a woman might want to wear makeup in order to wash it off in front of her... all as if a simple, direct communication would, in the words of the OP, "create drama."

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 03-07-2011, 04:17 PM   #22
Hellis
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Re: dirty uniform

I had one student that had a ` pen & ink ` problem, I took him to one side and informed him that Boots the Chemist were doing two deodorants for the price of three...worked...

Henry Ellis
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Old 03-07-2011, 05:16 PM   #23
Anthony Loeppert
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Boots the Chemist were doing two deodorants for the price of three...worked...
2 for the price of 3? I think I'd shop elsewhere

Regards,
Anthony
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Old 03-07-2011, 06:51 PM   #24
raul rodrigo
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Re: dirty uniform

I've had no trouble telling women in our dojo that it's best for them to remove earrings and the like. And anyone who hasn't practiced some basic hygiene gets feedback about it immediately. No drama to it.

Two of our yudansha use the Japanese cotton indigo hakama, which stains other people's gis a lot. We complain, but there really seems to be nothing to do; indigo is like that, even if they try to fix it with vinegar and whatnot. We just wait out the month or so it takes for the staining to stop.
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Old 03-07-2011, 07:51 PM   #25
Janet Rosen
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Re: dirty uniform

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
Two of our yudansha use the Japanese cotton indigo hakama, which stains other people's gis a lot. We complain, but there really seems to be nothing to do; indigo is like that, even if they try to fix it with vinegar and whatnot. We just wait out the month or so it takes for the staining to stop.
Vinegar doesn't "fix" indigo. It might conceivably help the fabric shed the massively excess amount of dye applied to it, but probably no more than simple wash/rinse/repeat will.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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