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Old 03-04-2011, 05:11 AM   #151
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
While attending the FBI National Academy in Quantico, my friend Jerre and I decided to visit Baltimore's famous Inner Harbor. We parked in a public parking lot and played tourist. Towards nightfall we decided to visit Little Italy next door for dinner before returning to Quantico. There weren't many people on the street and we spoke with a BPD officer and asked him if there was any problem walking there and back for dinner and he assured us there wouldn't be.

We wandered off for dinner and had a wonderful meal, without any alcohol by the way. As we were walking back towards our car two guys in hoodies and track suits started following us, getting closer slowly, but surely. As we entered the parking lot they picked up the pace and followed us in. Our car was sitting under lights and was the only car in the immediate area. They picked up the pace a little more. As we got towards the car, they were about 25 feet away and moving quickly towards us. Neither of us were armed, so we turned to face them as we removed our heavy coats. The two guys made immediate turns left and right and walked away from us. To this day both of us are convinced that we were targeted for a street robbery and our obvious willingness to confront them thwarted their plans - and then again, maybe they heard their mothers calling them in for dinner - who knows?

We probably looked like good prey as we walked the dark streets late at night; both of us were 50 at the time and sported grey hair. When they saw that we recognized what was in the wind, they decided we weren't worth the trouble. We weren't demonstrating anything nearly as powerful as Imazumi Sensei, but showing what we call "command presence" in our business and a willingness to defend ourselves apparently did the job.

We DID blow all the red lights on the back streets of Baltimore as we left town though.
We have an expression, whilst serving with the Royal Navy, one was taught the "power of command", through projecting ones voice to drilling a squad of men in rifle drill. It was surprising how much could be achieved with the diaphragm in this practice, some would call it kiai.
Army Regimental Sergeant Majors are renowned for it, Petty Officer or Chief Petty Gunnery Instructors are the same equivalent in the Royal Navy. I was particularly good at rifle drill and things of this nature, and was made class leader in basic training for it.... All my fathers family have been military and it just seems to have passed on in the "genes" if you like.....
 
Old 03-04-2011, 06:21 AM   #152
oisin bourke
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I would suggest you read their newspapers online, it is on the increase with western influence, It's not as safe as it was during their rise to commercial and industrial success. Suicide has a big stake there to
They are not as innocent as they like to make out.....
I would suggest you live here for a number of years.

I'm well aware of the social problems in Japan, but the fact is that it's still a comparatively peaceful and safe country. How many drinks and cigarette vending machines do you see standing freely on the streets of your town?

If you think you've got problems now, Imagine what would happen if you doubled the population of Britain and crammed over thirty million people into Greater London
 
Old 03-04-2011, 06:37 AM   #153
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
If you think you've got problems now, Imagine what would happen if you doubled the population of Britain and crammed over thirty million people into Greater London
Actually with the amount of immigrants flooding into the UK each year, It won't be too long before we see that happening here...

Henry Ellis
Silence is Approval.
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-04-2011, 08:24 AM   #154
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Jon Holloway wrote: View Post
David,

Thank you for the reply. I do not have the time to comment at length, due to the fact that I finished work, went and taught an Albo Kali Silat class, spent some time discussing some matters with the instructor for the MMA guys who were working on the other side of the school,as usual when discussing martial arts lost track of time, and have to get up and drive 10 hours to Virginia tomorrow.

I will make time for a couple of highlights, though.

Your description of what appeared to be an attempted robbery by an armed two man "crew" was interesting. Your response was a classic example of tactical movement to break contact and appeared to have been very nicely done. I teach this stuff, have run similar scenarios in training and have seen some pretty well trained people not do as well as you did in real life.

Silat from India? Don't say that too loudly. Since there are hundreds of different silat styles, from various islands and nations, with various oral and written histories of their origins, it gets complicated. Put it this way, if you have five silat guys from five different styles based out of five different nations, you will have as much luck getting a consensus of where things originated from as if you were querying a Catholic, a Baptist, a Muslim, a Pagan and an atheist about creation and the afterlife. I will say some people have tried to trace origins of various styles to India, some China, and some have stuck by indigenous origins. I personally see some Chinese influences in some of the silat styles I practice. As for Albo Kali Silat, it is a family or clan system from the Philippines and it adapted much from various fighting styles of different cultures and nations that have "visited" the Philippines. I see quite a few Chinese influences, as well as Spanish, American (boxing punches in particular), and others. As for "internal" in silat, well, that depends. You see, there is a lot of what I think you guys are labeling "internal" in some silat styles, and, in fact, in Albo Kali Silat. No one I have studied with has called it "internal" or "external" though. It is just movement, sometimes "hard" sometimes "soft." I work on ways of power generation that probably would be familiar to you, but I am not that interested in the most powerful hit, push, etc. but the fastest. A sharp blade needs very little force and takes very little time to do horrific damage. In a blade environment, and a gun environment as well, speed kills. I work on disrupting the opponent's lines and balance but I do it very, very quickly, and concentrate on controlling/destroying/neutralizing attacking limbs on my way into the center line to neutralize the threat. This all sounds very similar to AIkido, does it not? The difference is simultaneous strikes, blocks, parries, and jams may occur, multiple attacks per second will be launched on completely different lines of attack and with compound motions (multiple hits from the same attacking limb without retraction and rechambering), and a multitude of elbow methodologies which mimic reverse grip edge out knife play are used in empty hand fighting. The motions trained are so fast because if they are not very speedy, it is possible for the opponent to cut tendons and muscles in an eye blink, and your arms will become instantly useless.

In any case, it is off to bed for me, and I have drifted far from the topic of this thread anyway. Perhaps when I get back to Ohio in a few days I'll put up a new thread to discuss the interesting relationship between speed, power, and precision in striking, talk a bit and maybe post a video showing how fast a knife really can be, and/or discuss ideas with you and others about balance disruption and power generation at extreme close quarters (corto range in my system). Maybe some would find that of interest in an "Off Topic" or non-Aikido section.

Take care,

Jon
Jon I would find that extremely interesting, don't leave it too long.....

Yes always take care,

Regards

Tony
 
Old 03-04-2011, 08:24 AM   #155
sakumeikan
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Smile Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Actually with the amount of immigrants flooding into the UK each year, It won't be too long before we see that happening here...

Henry Ellis
Silence is Approval.
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Henry,
Will the Egyptians/Libyans /Tunisian use public transport /private hire or will we import the odd dromedary or ship of the desert to offset the excessive workload of our chum Tony [aka Tiny ] Wagstaffe?Answers on a crisp five pound note please.I also accept American Express, Joe.
 
Old 03-04-2011, 08:30 AM   #156
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
I would suggest you live here for a number of years.

I'm well aware of the social problems in Japan, but the fact is that it's still a comparatively peaceful and safe country. How many drinks and cigarette vending machines do you see standing freely on the streets of your town?

If you think you've got problems now, Imagine what would happen if you doubled the population of Britain and crammed over thirty million people into Greater London
So is the UK, but that seems to change at full moon.... We have noticed that kick offs in the city here, seem to be more plentiful at that phase of the moon, when the night life is humming..... could be coincidence though....
 
Old 03-04-2011, 08:33 AM   #157
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Henry,
Will the Egyptians/Libyans /Tunisian use public transport /private hire or will we import the odd dromedary or ship of the desert to offset the excessive workload of our chum Tony [aka Tiny ] Wagstaffe?Answers on a crisp five pound note please.I also accept American Express, Joe.
Ha ha ha haa!! We are over licensed here already thank you very much!! I am one of the few English drivers on the ranks these days, I'm actually a rarity!!

Tiny

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 03-04-2011 at 08:36 AM.
 
Old 03-04-2011, 09:41 AM   #158
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Second thoughts, I suppose we could revert back to the old Hansom Hackney cab, carry a manure bucket and shovel at the back on a hook..... say thanks for the tip Guv, Milady while doffing yer cloff cap....
Wouldn't have to fork out for dried manure from Hilliers, That would please the missus's allotment.....
Wonder what camel dung is like for the spuds, cabbages, carrots, beans and onions..?
 
Old 03-04-2011, 11:33 AM   #159
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Second thoughts, I suppose we could revert back to the old Hansom Hackney cab, carry a manure bucket and shovel at the back on a hook..... say thanks for the tip Guv, Milady while doffing yer cloff cap....
Wouldn't have to fork out for dried manure from Hilliers, That would please the missus's allotment.....
Wonder what camel dung is like for the spuds, cabbages, carrots, beans and onions..?
Tony
One thing that I don't understand about your fellow Muslim cab drivers, they don't believe in Christmas or Easter but charge double
fare on these holiday occasions.???..

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-04-2011, 11:57 AM   #160
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony
One thing that I don't understand about your fellow Muslim cab drivers, they don't believe in Christmas or Easter but charge double
fare on these holiday occasions.???..

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
To tell you the truth Henry I know they work xmas day, boxing day and every other sodding day!! Tariff rate is double time, every bank holiday or official holiday is time and a half....
We rake it in on Eed and Ramadan!! They don't like that!!
I like Ramadan and Eed.....As that is the only time we can make a buck these days!!
Not their fault they're are here, Tony Bliar made sure of that!!!!
Most of them are kosher , but those who don't tow the line, get it from them and us. Standards are high and most have come up to it, but they still have the reputation for ripping jo public off. It's no wonder they suffer the most assaults....
Now we have been over licensed, It's ironic fact why we felt the resentment when they did come in their hoards. They thought we were being "racist", so now many of the Muslim drivers realise that, but at what cost? Now they say you told us so.....
 
Old 03-04-2011, 04:17 PM   #161
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
To tell you the truth Henry I know they work xmas day, boxing day and every other sodding day!! Tariff rate is double time, every bank holiday or official holiday is time and a half....
We rake it in on Eed and Ramadan!! They don't like that!!
I like Ramadan and Eed.....As that is the only time we can make a buck these days!!
Not their fault they're are here, Tony Bliar made sure of that!!!!
Most of them are kosher , but those who don't tow the line, get it from them and us. Standards are high and most have come up to it, but they still have the reputation for ripping jo public off. It's no wonder they suffer the most assaults....
Now we have been over licensed, It's ironic fact why we felt the resentment when they did come in their hoards. They thought we were being "racist", so now many of the Muslim drivers realise that, but at what cost? Now they say you told us so.....
Tony

I had no idea it worked both ways, makes a pleasant change

Henry Ellis
Silence is Approval
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-04-2011, 05:35 PM   #162
RoisinPitman
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Hi, I have not posted on here before. I am a retired (medically) police officer (1982-1993) and have been studying aikido for 32 years, running my own school since 1988.

To recreate any situation bordering on 'reality' in the dojo is impossible as there is an absence of 'fear' inherent in most if not all real life violent encounters. Anyone who says that they are not afraid or in fear when confronted with a 'real' street situation is either drunk, drugged or lying. It is the fear factor that triggers our fight or flight response.

Unfortunately as a (retired) police officer the flight option is was not a possibility. We had to walk towards the fight not away from it.

I make it quite clear to my aikido students that they are learning a set of movements in the dojo to better prepare their bodies to react as and when a situation arises, but attacks in the dojo are still extremely ritualised. Unless you wish to cater for the 'realists' by introducing the Cato effect a la the Pink Panther movies (I am of course joking). However ultimately in the dojo there is always a sensei to stop the class if it gets out of hand. On the street you do not have that luxury.
 
Old 03-04-2011, 09:44 PM   #163
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

I had no idea it worked both ways, makes a pleasant change

Henry Ellis
Silence is Approval
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Henry

When the Muslim drivers first came here many had no idea what they were letting themselves in for.... some found out the hard way and some took advice from the older hands here, just like most towns I would imagine.... The same applies everywhere, it doesn't matter whether it's at night or the day, it's a matter of keeping your wits about you and not taking anybody that comes along that looks or feels a bit iffy.
The trouble is people can be friendly at first encounter, but can soon change when they realise it's going to cost more than they think!!....
When working at night, the alcohol and drug factor can change usually ordinary people into demons. First it's the intimidation, followed by threats and the actual violence. Trying to talk them out of it doesn't always work, so using restraining methods are all you have as any assault, even a glancing touch can lead to actual common assault as a counter allegation. One has to be very careful these, days!! Even though you are the "victim" if you beat the crap out of someone defending yourself you can/will find that it will lead to arrest and possible conviction!! You can only hit if the person you are defending yourself from is a serious threat? Much like Rik experienced!! Most times I have used restraint, but it's not easy.....
 
Old 03-05-2011, 03:02 AM   #164
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Henry

When the Muslim drivers first came here many had no idea what they were letting themselves in for.... some found out the hard way and some took advice from the older hands here, just like most towns I would imagine.... The same applies everywhere, it doesn't matter whether it's at night or the day, it's a matter of keeping your wits about you and not taking anybody that comes along that looks or feels a bit iffy.
The trouble is people can be friendly at first encounter, but can soon change when they realise it's going to cost more than they think!!....
When working at night, the alcohol and drug factor can change usually ordinary people into demons. First it's the intimidation, followed by threats and the actual violence. Trying to talk them out of it doesn't always work, so using restraining methods are all you have as any assault, even a glancing touch can lead to actual common assault as a counter allegation. One has to be very careful these, days!! Even though you are the "victim" if you beat the crap out of someone defending yourself you can/will find that it will lead to arrest and possible conviction!! You can only hit if the person you are defending yourself from is a serious threat? Much like Rik experienced!! Most times I have used restraint, but it's not easy.....
Tony

The tree huggers have claimed a lot of victims amongst door men ` bouncers` - As you well know if any of the tough old boys have a conviction they cannot work on ``the door``......I get around a bit with my son and we have a giggle at some of the `new young door men ` who make an obvious target.........

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-05-2011, 03:40 AM   #165
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

David Orange
Quote:
Incredible. I can certainly appreciate it. A lot of people think that truth is relative and it can be, in some ways, but there is Truth that is exclusive and when you hold that in your hand it's very offensive to see someone abuse it. And when a organization supports and spreads the lie, it's infuriating.
In my own case, I was an original incorporator of an organization in the US in 1981. I broke away from them around 1990, when I went to live in Japan. Years later, that group published something under my name extolling a fellow as "uchi deshi to Minoru Mochizuki" though the guy was actually booted out of the dojo after a brief stay because he didn't come to classes! One of the shihans told me to tell the guy to get out of the dojo!
And this group glorified him under my name while neglecting to mention that I was uchi deshi before he got there and long after he left!
At the same time, this organization was using my name to glorify their members, they also spread four specific lies: that David Orange had been kicked out of the dojo; that David Orange had been "kicked out of Japan (!!!???)"; that David Orange's ranks had all been revoked; that David Orange would be sued if he used the name of yoseikan.
All lies, spread by a private organization with tax exemption.
It just shows that phonies can be found everywhere...
David
I note the problems you have experienced your self...I am no longer surprised at some of the shameless conduct these people are capable of...some are people who were once considered friends..

An ex student of mine at the Hut in 1963 invited me to take part in his 40th celebration, I agreed. This man to his shame associated with Jack Poole. On the day before my teaching spot he insisted that he personally introduce me to the large group...I was invited to sit centre of the group for the ``photo of the day `` .Some time after the event he phoned me, I said " Les, you had a professional video of the day, when will I get my copy ?....He hummed and arrrghed before finally agreeing to send me a copy.......I received a copy .....

I was not on the video, I had been edited out...I looked at the group photo on the video cover, I had also been edited out of that....
It would appear that I had imagined I had been there that day.

It was this mans celebration, yet he allowed Jack Poole to edit his teacher from the video.

Henry Ellis
Silence is Approval
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-05-2011, 04:42 AM   #166
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

One cold spring morning a farmer found a baby bird that had fallen out of its nest onto the ground shivering. The farmer picked the baby bird up and placed it in the middle of a fresh steaming cow patty.

The steaming cow patty warmed the baby bird and he began to sing happily.

He sang so loud that a passing fox heard him, came over, snatched him out of the patty and ate him.

It is not always those that try to hurt you that get you into crap.

It is no always those that try to help you that get you out of crap.

dps
 
Old 03-05-2011, 09:01 AM   #167
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

The tree huggers have claimed a lot of victims amongst door men ` bouncers` - As you well know if any of the tough old boys have a conviction they cannot work on ``the door``......I get around a bit with my son and we have a giggle at some of the `new young door men ` who make an obvious target.........

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
I know what you mean!! We had one here in Winchester, he was a nice feller but oh dear!, some pratt started on him one night outside a nightspot we park by.....He just froze!! I had to dive in as I was stood outside my cab talking to my oppo cabbie, I just took the geezer down from behind in a choke and held him there till the old bill arrived and the other doormen came to give assistance. Needless to say he wasn't in the job for long....
I don't know if the security firms are scrapping the barrel to get people to do the job, but they do have some sort of training. Most are capable but you get the odd one who must be green or wet behind the ears....
 
Old 03-05-2011, 10:38 AM   #168
Janet Rosen
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Roisin Pitman wrote: View Post
Hi, I have not posted on here before. I am a retired (medically) police officer (1982-1993) and have been studying aikido for 32 years, running my own school since 1988...To recreate any situation bordering on 'reality' in the dojo is impossible as there is an absence of 'fear' inherent in most if not all real life violent encounters. Anyone who says that they are not afraid or in fear when confronted with a 'real' street situation is either drunk, drugged or lying. It is the fear factor that triggers our fight or flight response.
Thank you for food for thought.
I totally agree that the dojo is a controlled environment. However, peoples buttons do indeed get pushed in the dojo. I have seen MANY beginners who were quite frightened of even slow controlled blows or strikes coming at them in the dojo - not just among the more sheltered or previously traumatised women or young men who would freeze, flinch or retreat, but also young men who would react more aggressively than needed (the "fight" side of things) because of the fear.
Flip side, is that I believe one of the things we are training for, in learning to be relaxed under the contained threat within the dojo, is cultivating a response OTHER than "fight or flight" - since it is a sympathetic nervous system response, we can indeed work on active control of it - while some people are actually wired to not have it and to go into a more parasympathetic response (deep slow breathing, slower pulse) - and optimally our training would slowly be ramping up the pressure so that we learn to stay relaxed in more and more intense situations.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
 
Old 03-05-2011, 02:24 PM   #169
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Thank you for food for thought.
I totally agree that the dojo is a controlled environment. However, peoples buttons do indeed get pushed in the dojo. I have seen MANY beginners who were quite frightened of even slow controlled blows or strikes coming at them in the dojo - not just among the more sheltered or previously traumatised women or young men who would freeze, flinch or retreat, but also young men who would react more aggressively than needed (the "fight" side of things) because of the fear.
Flip side, is that I believe one of the things we are training for, in learning to be relaxed under the contained threat within the dojo, is cultivating a response OTHER than "fight or flight" - since it is a sympathetic nervous system response, we can indeed work on active control of it - while some people are actually wired to not have it and to go into a more parasympathetic response (deep slow breathing, slower pulse) - and optimally our training would slowly be ramping up the pressure so that we learn to stay relaxed in more and more intense situations.
Breathing is important..... At low kyu grade we emphasize gripping taking the partner into a technique, taking them down slowly and safely, this enables muscle memory into the correct ukemi. We start of with light but fast striking so people get used to the speed factor, not just from shomen / yokomen uchi, but from kicks punches, palm heel strikes, knee strikes, elbow strikes and so forth. It doesn't have to hurt or scare, but can develop the hard wiring to diffuse the "freeze" effect....
 
Old 03-06-2011, 07:24 PM   #170
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Will the Egyptians/Libyans /Tunisian use public transport /private hire or will we import the odd dromedary or ship of the desert (...)
 
Old 03-07-2011, 01:52 AM   #171
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Tony
Quote:
Breathing is important
Tony
Even as a child I was aware how important breathing was, every time someone died, the question " Oh dear, what of ? " was answered by my father with " short of breath "...a common cause of death back then...

Henry Ellis
Silence is Approval
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-07-2011, 02:23 AM   #172
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Alejandro,

Dont take my comment seriously!!Joe
 
Old 03-07-2011, 04:33 AM   #173
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

Tony
Even as a child I was aware how important breathing was, every time someone died, the question " Oh dear, what of ? " was answered by my father with " short of breath "...a common cause of death back then...

Henry Ellis
Silence is Approval
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Yeah!! You would go a bit blue without it that's for sure....
 
Old 03-07-2011, 06:40 AM   #174
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
Alejandro,

Dont take my comment seriously!!Joe
No problem here! Alex.
 
Old 03-07-2011, 08:57 AM   #175
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
No problem here! Alex.
With hand on hip I would say Hello sailor.....
 

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