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Old 03-03-2011, 11:53 AM   #126
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
David
Can you imagine how I / we felt as the pioneers of UK Aikido standing in line to meet the Mayor of Birmingham to receive an award for our many years of Aikido and its promotion from the 1950s, I heard a shuffle behind me, I looked around, It was JP an old ``student`` of mine, receiving the same award as the rest of us, this was being presented by the crass UK governing body for Aikido....
Incredible. I can certainly appreciate it. A lot of people think that truth is relative and it can be, in some ways, but there is Truth that is exclusive and when you hold that in your hand it's very offensive to see someone abuse it. And when a organization supports and spreads the lie, it's infuriating.

In my own case, I was an original incorporator of an organization in the US in 1981. I broke away from them around 1990, when I went to live in Japan. Years later, that group published something under my name extolling a fellow as "uchi deshi to Minoru Mochizuki" though the guy was actually booted out of the dojo after a brief stay because he didn't come to classes! One of the shihans told me to tell the guy to get out of the dojo!

And this group glorified him under my name while neglecting to mention that I was uchi deshi before he got there and long after he left!

At the same time, this organization was using my name to glorify their members, they also spread four specific lies: that David Orange had been kicked out of the dojo; that David Orange had been "kicked out of Japan (!!!???)"; that David Orange's ranks had all been revoked; that David Orange would be sued if he used the name of yoseikan.

All lies, spread by a private organization with tax exemption.

It just shows that phonies can be found everywhere.

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Due to present health problems, I am having to rethink the date of my visit to the USA, if things improve I hope to visit NM in late May..

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
To your health, Sensei.

Best wishes.

David

Last edited by David Orange : 03-03-2011 at 11:55 AM.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-03-2011, 12:39 PM   #127
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Jon, I can't really tell, but it sounds as if you think I said that cab driver murders are the number one cause of death in the US or something.

That's not what I said and I didn't relate it at all to LEOs. I said that the number one way cab drivers are killed in the US is being shot in the back of the head--as compared to being jumped or choked or whatever.

Maybe I'm wrong. I certainly didn't base it on statistics but just from my readings of various reports of cab driver deaths. It seems like there's seldom any warning. The killer just gets the driver to take him where he wants to go, then shoots him when he stops. I'd be glad to see any statistics you have on it, but that's my impression. Anyway, it's a comparison to Tony's report of people manhandling drivers. I just said "They don't do it that way here. They just shoot you."

I also wasn't referring to robberies, per se, but to murders of cab drivers.

I hope the comments above make my meaning clearer. And, again, if you have statistics on cab driver murders, specifically, I'll be glad to see them.

Well, since ultimately "nothing" happened, there's no way I can describe the situations that you can't discount them, but in each case I guess you could say I spoiled the contractual transaction.

However, here is the first incident, involving a single attacker, who was apparently unarmed.

I was alone, about two AM, walking home about three blocks from a coffee shop. I was crossing a large parking lot behind some buildings on a main street. The only other person around was a guy crossing the same parking lot from the other direction. I thought nothing of it, but as we progressed, his path brought him closer and closer to my path. I still didn't think anything of it, but as we passed in opposite directions, he was only a few feet away from me. When we were just passing, he suddenly turned and made as if to lunge at me, grab me in a bear hug and drive me to the ground where I suppose he intended to mount me and pound my face until I just gave up my money.

Little did he know, I HAD no money!

But just as he turned and started to lunge for me, my body instantly turned to face him and my te gatana started to come up. This shocked his sh*t and he turned back to his original heading and continued away. I just laughed it off and went on home but if he had continued his move, I would have thrown him with sumi otoshi before I knew what I'd done.

So "nothing" happened but if I hadn't reacted as I did, I have no doubt I would have been assaulted. So I know you wouldn't call it an "attack" but it was.

Briefly, I've been confronted a number of times by angry people, crazy people, muggers and robbers and the outcome has always been the same. They realized that they were stepping into something they hadn't counted on and they changed their minds before something bad happened to them. As Sokaku Takeda said, "The art of aiki is to overcome the opponent mentally, at a glance, and win without fighting."

In one case, I almost stepped into a trap when I found two guys sitting on the hood of a car parked next to mine. One guy got off the hood of the car and brought out a knife as he walked to the end of my car. My immediate intuition was that he would get to the end of the cars as I reached my driver's door and that he would then turn and approach me with the knife before I could open the door, while the other guy would follow me between the cars to sandwich me in. I believe the second guy had a pistol.

I avoided this by not stepping between the cars and sure enough, the guy with the knife reached the end of the cars and turned around, expecting to see me trying to get into my car. But I wasn't there. I was still standing near his friend, who sat grinning at me. If either of them had moved, I was going to back fist the seated guy in the head, knock him off the car and disarm him. But neither of them moved. It looked like a football play they had worked out carefully, but I just hadn't stepped into it. Since they couldn't rob me discreetly, they both left the scene.

There have been a handful of such incidents since about 1976--six or eight--in one of the most dangerous cities in the US, according to the FBI: third most dangerous this year, I believe. I've walked alone, unarmed, all over this town for half my life.

Not being an LEO, I haven't gotten into the kinds of things you have, but my father and grandfather were both LEOs and I was taking guns apart, cleaning them and reassembling them when I was ten years old. I grew up shooting and I fired pistols, rifles, shotguns and automatic weapons as a kid. My first MA teachers were LEO and one of them was a reserve Marine. I started in kyokshin karate and the Marine taught me some solid lessons. I also trained with a friend of his in jujutsu, who was a police instructor and I got a lot of my strategies from him. I've never been robbed and I've never had to "talk my way out" of anything. In each case, the would-be attacker just decided to break off the engagement. Mostly, it was because I spoiled their distance and their timing and presented them with a semi-conscious discomfort that convinced them that there were better things to do that night than mess with the skinny kid with the weird eyes.

If you don't have direct experience with the IP subject it's best just to listen, ask questions or leave it alone. Although you consider it a "tiny little subsection of the tiny martial arts section of the internet," it's a major consideration for masters in Japan and China and it has been for many centuries, going back to India. As far as what you do is physical, it really is a very important consideration. But it doesn't relate that much to firearms. If you're not interested, that's your business, but if you teach 'aikido' it should be an interest for you because it's the essence of what aikido comes from.

As for the arguments, that's just noise and it's really unfortunate because it drives a lot of people away from one of the most important issues in martial arts today.

If you remember about 20 years ago, everyone was still discussing whether grappling arts or striking arts were superior. It was almost unheard of for karate men to actually fight judo and jujutsuka, so people had all kinds of mistaken ideas about how grappling and striking related. Today, thanks to the Gracie family and the UFC and similiar events, we know that grappling is an indispensible part of the martial arts repertoire.

Twenty years from now, people will be looking back and laughing at how we argued about whether IP was relevant to current-day martial arts. By then, those without IP skills just won't be teaching anymore.

There is "concern" and then there is "concern". One comes from a belief that IP isn't relevant to weapons such as firearms and there is a lot of validity to that. But that's not Tony's point as firearms are almost an imaginary concept where he lives.

The other type of concern, which may hit closer to home for Tony, is that there is something very major and important in MA that he has never encountered and about which he is completely ignorant. Note how he simultaneously dismisses IP as "snake oil" and also claims that "I do that, too.".....

That's definitely outside my experience. I could maybe show you something about sword work, but that's only applicable to swords and similar weapons such as bokken or baseball bats: not irrelevant to self-defense, but certainly not what you're talking about.

That has its place, but when the "stuffy relation" is actually a reasonable person and the abrasive "mind speaker" is ignorant of the subject at hand....it's not such fun and the "mind speaker" comes off looking pretty bad. Of course, I was in his position just a few years ago, telling Mike Sigman and Rob John that they didn't know what they were talking about, so I do have compassion for Tony, but when someone insists on maintaining ignorance about a subject and also insists on continuing to argue where he is ignorant, it loses its interesting elements entirely.

What you'll see is that everyone really cares more about old Tony than he realizes. He's only two years older than I, and my martial arts run about as long as his and maybe a bit deeper. So he's more a peer to me and I hate to see him miss out on a great boat because he thinks he already knows the story. I think that's the general idea. Sort of like trying to get your cousin not to get totally plastered at the wedding reception again....

No, I think it's all relevant and I think that silat has some interesting content and may even include some internal elements, but I don't know that much about it. Silat comes from India, doesn't it? At least in the roots?

I will say that one of the most sobering things I ever experienced was when a fellow very casually brought out a knife at a very inopportune moment. I have no illusions at all that I remain alive on earth (and so far unwounded) simply because God allows it.

Best to you.

David
David, less of the old..... I'm only 57 years young. God didn't allow it, he did......
 
Old 03-03-2011, 03:16 PM   #128
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

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Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
David, less of the old..... I'm only 57 years young. God didn't allow it, he did......
You can call me "Old Dave," if you like. I'm 55. And only 4 months older than Dan.

I certainly wouldn't say "Old Henry" about Ellis Sensei, though...

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-03-2011, 03:23 PM   #129
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
You can call me "Old Dave," if you like. I'm 55. And only 4 months older than Dan.

I certainly wouldn't say "Old Henry" about Ellis Sensei, though...

Best to you.

David
David

I am happy enough with " Sir T Rex "

Henry Ellis

Silence is Approval.
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-03-2011, 03:41 PM   #130
phitruong
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
You can call me "Old Dave," if you like. I'm 55. And only 4 months older than Dan.

I certainly wouldn't say "Old Henry" about Ellis Sensei, though...

David
wow! you guys are ancient. might want to move over so us younging can move up the world.
 
Old 03-03-2011, 03:53 PM   #131
L. Camejo
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
For example a friend of mine from Toronto has been living for several years now in a small Japanese town. One time when he came back for a visit he made a comment that he felt like he had lost a lot of his protective 'city' instincts.... For example apparently where he's been living when people park their cars not only do they not lock them, they frequently leave the keys in the ignition for convenience .
I think this point raises another important area of discussion regarding reality.

Many of us have Japanese Sensei or Shihan at the head of our organizations or dojo who may or may not influence everything from training methods, to technique, to what specific skills are developed etc.

The thing is, Japan is one of the safest countries in the world when it comes to violent crime. An example of some stats are here - http://answers.google.com/answers/th...w/id/3231.html

As a result, there is not a great need for most Shihan or Sensei who live mostly in Japan to focus on making their martial arts training effective in the face of violent crime. It is simply a non-issue. This does not mean that these Sensei and Shihan are not highly skilled at what they do, but a deep understanding of real violence, how the criminal mind works and other areas that deal directly with violent conflict, may not be their forte or area of experience, regardless of their rank. Hence it will not appear within their training or teaching paradigm imho. If students who require skills against violence inherit this tradition without modification, they will be just as ineffective as their Sensei.

I've personally found some distinct differences in how many people approach martial arts training in the Americas as compared to Japan. Imho necessity is the mother of invention. If one learns a tradition or training methodology that originates from a place where violence is not a real concern, then how can one attempt to use it in a violent environment. It will require modification and a separation from "tradition" at some level.

Funny thing is, the oldest martial art traditions come from actual combat. So which "tradition" is one following actually?

Just some thoughts.

LC

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
 
Old 03-03-2011, 04:16 PM   #132
Marc Abrams
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
I think this point raises another important area of discussion regarding reality.

Many of us have Japanese Sensei or Shihan at the head of our organizations or dojo who may or may not influence everything from training methods, to technique, to what specific skills are developed etc.

The thing is, Japan is one of the safest countries in the world when it comes to violent crime. An example of some stats are here - http://answers.google.com/answers/th...w/id/3231.html

As a result, there is not a great need for most Shihan or Sensei who live mostly in Japan to focus on making their martial arts training effective in the face of violent crime. It is simply a non-issue. This does not mean that these Sensei and Shihan are not highly skilled at what they do, but a deep understanding of real violence, how the criminal mind works and other areas that deal directly with violent conflict, may not be their forte or area of experience, regardless of their rank. Hence it will not appear within their training or teaching paradigm imho. If students who require skills against violence inherit this tradition without modification, they will be just as ineffective as their Sensei.

I've personally found some distinct differences in how many people approach martial arts training in the Americas as compared to Japan. Imho necessity is the mother of invention. If one learns a tradition or training methodology that originates from a place where violence is not a real concern, then how can one attempt to use it in a violent environment. It will require modification and a separation from "tradition" at some level.

Funny thing is, the oldest martial art traditions come from actual combat. So which "tradition" is one following actually?

Just some thoughts.

LC
Larry,

You raise an interesting point. Imaizumi Sensei has lived in NYC since the mid 1970's. I once asked him if anyone ever tried to mug him. He just said that he just extended Ki when he walked. As a relatively new person (under 10 years studying with him at that time), I thought that was a silly comment. Several years later I was in NYC and I saw a busy street in which people were parting like the Red Sea. I then see Imaizumi Sensei walking with this energy that was not aggressive, but caused other people to move out of the way. I was dumbfound by what I saw and began to understand what he meant by extending Ki. One of the keys to self-protection is the mental attitude/energy you put forth when you are out and about. The reality of his martial arts training takes many shapes. All that I have seen work just fine!

Marc Abrams
 
Old 03-03-2011, 07:06 PM   #133
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
wow! you guys are ancient. might want to move over so us younging can move up the world.
Don't wish for it too much, it will come quicker than you think...!!
 
Old 03-03-2011, 07:18 PM   #134
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Larry,

You raise an interesting point. Imaizumi Sensei has lived in NYC since the mid 1970's. I once asked him if anyone ever tried to mug him. He just said that he just extended Ki when he walked. As a relatively new person (under 10 years studying with him at that time), I thought that was a silly comment. Several years later I was in NYC and I saw a busy street in which people were parting like the Red Sea. I then see Imaizumi Sensei walking with this energy that was not aggressive, but caused other people to move out of the way. I was dumbfound by what I saw and began to understand what he meant by extending Ki. One of the keys to self-protection is the mental attitude/energy you put forth when you are out and about. The reality of his martial arts training takes many shapes. All that I have seen work just fine!

Marc Abrams
I would call extending key, walking with purpose as if you own your own space. People with military bearing have the same effect. It doesn't need to be aggressive at all. The saying of "confidence in your stride" comes to mind.....
 
Old 03-03-2011, 07:24 PM   #135
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
David

I am happy enough with " Sir T Rex "

Henry Ellis

Silence is Approval.
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
Really, saying "old whoever" is sort of an affectionate usage over here: "There's old Bob!" "I saw old George today!" And we don't always use it with "old" people. We start using it that way in our teens. There's "good old boy" and "good old buddy," which I've used with my son since he was a baby. He's six now and I call him "old man." I just forgot that it might not read the same way on your side.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-03-2011, 07:25 PM   #136
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
wow! you guys are ancient. might want to move over so us younging can move up the world.
Oh, we'll totter off the path in a minute or two and your way will be clear!

And then you can totter off for the next guy!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-03-2011, 07:38 PM   #137
Marc Abrams
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I would call extending key, walking with purpose as if you own your own space. People with military bearing have the same effect. It doesn't need to be aggressive at all. The saying of "confidence in your stride" comes to mind.....
Tony,

Absolutely agree with that. Many of us know to walk like that, but Imaizumi Sensei's way of describing it in the manner that he did put Ki in a perspective that even someone like yourself could understand and agree with .

Marc Abrams
 
Old 03-03-2011, 07:43 PM   #138
David Orange
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
wow! you guys are ancient. might want to move over so us younging can move up the world.
It does bring up a vital point, though, Phi. The real enemy, in the long run, is old age itself. As someone pointed out earlier (maybe Marc?) physical strength peaks in the late 20s. The injuries start to come back to haunt us in our forties and they settle in in the fifties....

So the way we train when we're young may seem like the best way to be strong...but it may be the very thing that hurts us most when we're older.

I know a guy my own age who was always scary tough. When he did technique on me, it felt like a boulder hitting me. And now he's retired due to injuries. He was a lot stronger than I, but I outlasted him.

So this is where the IP/IS stuff starts coming in: a way to produce power that will last long after normal athletic strength has gone--and it's not injurious, but health-building.

Definitely something to think about.

Just you wait, buddy!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-03-2011, 08:13 PM   #139
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Really, saying "old whoever" is sort of an affectionate usage over here: "There's old Bob!" "I saw old George today!" And we don't always use it with "old" people. We start using it that way in our teens. There's "good old boy" and "good old buddy," which I've used with my son since he was a baby. He's six now and I call him "old man." I just forgot that it might not read the same way on your side.

Best to you.

David
My "old" mates call me "You old bastard! How are you doing Wag?" I quite like that....

But I'm still 57 years young!!
 
Old 03-03-2011, 08:17 PM   #140
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Marc Abrams wrote: View Post
Tony,

Absolutely agree with that. Many of us know to walk like that, but Imaizumi Sensei's way of describing it in the manner that he did put Ki in a perspective that even someone like yourself could understand and agree with .

Marc Abrams
Who me understand something like that? I don't understand anything, I just know..... it's called "gut" feeling....
 
Old 03-03-2011, 08:43 PM   #141
oisin bourke
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
I think this point raises another important area of discussion regarding reality.

Many of us have Japanese Sensei or Shihan at the head of our organizations or dojo who may or may not influence everything from training methods, to technique, to what specific skills are developed etc.

The thing is, Japan is one of the safest countries in the world when it comes to violent crime. An example of some stats are here - http://answers.google.com/answers/th...w/id/3231.html

As a result, there is not a great need for most Shihan or Sensei who live mostly in Japan to focus on making their martial arts training effective in the face of violent crime. It is simply a non-issue. This does not mean that these Sensei and Shihan are not highly skilled at what they do, but a deep understanding of real violence, how the criminal mind works and other areas that deal directly with violent conflict, may not be their forte or area of experience, regardless of their rank. Hence it will not appear within their training or teaching paradigm imho. If students who require skills against violence inherit this tradition without modification, they will be just as ineffective as their Sensei.

I've personally found some distinct differences in how many people approach martial arts training in the Americas as compared to Japan. Imho necessity is the mother of invention. If one learns a tradition or training methodology that originates from a place where violence is not a real concern, then how can one attempt to use it in a violent environment. It will require modification and a separation from "tradition" at some level.

Funny thing is, the oldest martial art traditions come from actual combat. So which "tradition" is one following actually?

Just some thoughts.

LC
They are all great points. Perhaps the approach the Japanese have towards practicing "martial arts" may have something to do with the fact that their country is so safe?
 
Old 03-03-2011, 09:39 PM   #142
Michael Hackett
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

While attending the FBI National Academy in Quantico, my friend Jerre and I decided to visit Baltimore's famous Inner Harbor. We parked in a public parking lot and played tourist. Towards nightfall we decided to visit Little Italy next door for dinner before returning to Quantico. There weren't many people on the street and we spoke with a BPD officer and asked him if there was any problem walking there and back for dinner and he assured us there wouldn't be.

We wandered off for dinner and had a wonderful meal, without any alcohol by the way. As we were walking back towards our car two guys in hoodies and track suits started following us, getting closer slowly, but surely. As we entered the parking lot they picked up the pace and followed us in. Our car was sitting under lights and was the only car in the immediate area. They picked up the pace a little more. As we got towards the car, they were about 25 feet away and moving quickly towards us. Neither of us were armed, so we turned to face them as we removed our heavy coats. The two guys made immediate turns left and right and walked away from us. To this day both of us are convinced that we were targeted for a street robbery and our obvious willingness to confront them thwarted their plans - and then again, maybe they heard their mothers calling them in for dinner - who knows?

We probably looked like good prey as we walked the dark streets late at night; both of us were 50 at the time and sported grey hair. When they saw that we recognized what was in the wind, they decided we weren't worth the trouble. We weren't demonstrating anything nearly as powerful as Imazumi Sensei, but showing what we call "command presence" in our business and a willingness to defend ourselves apparently did the job.

We DID blow all the red lights on the back streets of Baltimore as we left town though.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
 
Old 03-03-2011, 10:05 PM   #143
KaliGman
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

David,

Thank you for the reply. I do not have the time to comment at length, due to the fact that I finished work, went and taught an Albo Kali Silat class, spent some time discussing some matters with the instructor for the MMA guys who were working on the other side of the school,as usual when discussing martial arts lost track of time, and have to get up and drive 10 hours to Virginia tomorrow.

I will make time for a couple of highlights, though.

Your description of what appeared to be an attempted robbery by an armed two man "crew" was interesting. Your response was a classic example of tactical movement to break contact and appeared to have been very nicely done. I teach this stuff, have run similar scenarios in training and have seen some pretty well trained people not do as well as you did in real life.

Silat from India? Don't say that too loudly. Since there are hundreds of different silat styles, from various islands and nations, with various oral and written histories of their origins, it gets complicated. Put it this way, if you have five silat guys from five different styles based out of five different nations, you will have as much luck getting a consensus of where things originated from as if you were querying a Catholic, a Baptist, a Muslim, a Pagan and an atheist about creation and the afterlife. I will say some people have tried to trace origins of various styles to India, some China, and some have stuck by indigenous origins. I personally see some Chinese influences in some of the silat styles I practice. As for Albo Kali Silat, it is a family or clan system from the Philippines and it adapted much from various fighting styles of different cultures and nations that have "visited" the Philippines. I see quite a few Chinese influences, as well as Spanish, American (boxing punches in particular), and others. As for "internal" in silat, well, that depends. You see, there is a lot of what I think you guys are labeling "internal" in some silat styles, and, in fact, in Albo Kali Silat. No one I have studied with has called it "internal" or "external" though. It is just movement, sometimes "hard" sometimes "soft." I work on ways of power generation that probably would be familiar to you, but I am not that interested in the most powerful hit, push, etc. but the fastest. A sharp blade needs very little force and takes very little time to do horrific damage. In a blade environment, and a gun environment as well, speed kills. I work on disrupting the opponent's lines and balance but I do it very, very quickly, and concentrate on controlling/destroying/neutralizing attacking limbs on my way into the center line to neutralize the threat. This all sounds very similar to AIkido, does it not? The difference is simultaneous strikes, blocks, parries, and jams may occur, multiple attacks per second will be launched on completely different lines of attack and with compound motions (multiple hits from the same attacking limb without retraction and rechambering), and a multitude of elbow methodologies which mimic reverse grip edge out knife play are used in empty hand fighting. The motions trained are so fast because if they are not very speedy, it is possible for the opponent to cut tendons and muscles in an eye blink, and your arms will become instantly useless.

In any case, it is off to bed for me, and I have drifted far from the topic of this thread anyway. Perhaps when I get back to Ohio in a few days I'll put up a new thread to discuss the interesting relationship between speed, power, and precision in striking, talk a bit and maybe post a video showing how fast a knife really can be, and/or discuss ideas with you and others about balance disruption and power generation at extreme close quarters (corto range in my system). Maybe some would find that of interest in an "Off Topic" or non-Aikido section.

Take care,

Jon
 
Old 03-03-2011, 10:09 PM   #144
KaliGman
Dojo: Warren Budokan
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Jon Holloway

That was a very interesting and informative post.

"""I do not pop in here that often"""

I hope you will `pop in` more often......

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
Thank you for the kind words, Sensei. I believe I might just pop in now and again.

Jon
 
Old 03-03-2011, 10:14 PM   #145
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
As we got towards the car, they were about 25 feet away and moving quickly towards us. Neither of us were armed, so we turned to face them as we removed our heavy coats. The two guys made immediate turns left and right and walked away from us. To this day both of us are convinced that we were targeted for a street robbery and our obvious willingness to confront them thwarted their plans - and then again, maybe they heard their mothers calling them in for dinner - who knows?
You know. Well enough, anyway. I think it's people who try to tell themselves, "Nah, this is not what's happening" that end up getting mugged. I've had thousands of strange encounters with people, but six or eight stay with me to this day and I know in my heart, I was targeted for mugging that handful of times. But responses such as you describe just made them change their minds in every case, thank God.

Recently, speaking of blowing redlights...I was going home by an unusual route and I found myself approaching a redlight (in my car) as a fellow neared the same redlight on foot. I had to stop for the light and I felt that the guy was working his way up to my car. Something told me he was about to pull a gun and carjack me. I just ran the light and left him standing there.

Overblown reaction? Maybe. But here's what happened to a friend. Exiting the freeway, he reached the bottom of the ramp and stopped at a redlight. He waited as a guy walked across the street in front of him. But when the guy reached his car, he suddenly approached the driver's window, opened his coat and showed a pistol. He said, "Give it up, man," and my friend was robbed in broad daylight on the street.

Similar thing happened to a karate teacher I knew 35 years ago. He was leaving the city hall and a big guy approached him and said, "I'm your garbage man. I pick up your garbage." And he asked for a ride and the karate man let him into his car. He pulled into a store to let the guy out and parked in a spot with the front end of his car at the wall of the store. As the "garbage man" got out, he came around to the driver's door and showed a pistol. The karate guy got robbed.

Coming from an LE family, I developed the habit of hearing stories like this and learning from them.

Be safe out there.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-03-2011, 10:22 PM   #146
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Jon Holloway wrote: View Post
David,

Thank you for the reply. I do not have the time to comment at length, due to the fact that I finished work, went and taught an Albo Kali Silat class, spent some time discussing some matters with the instructor for the MMA guys who were working on the other side of the school,as usual when discussing martial arts lost track of time, and have to get up and drive 10 hours to Virginia tomorrow.
Thanks for your comments, Jon. I guess the topic is specifically about aikido, but in the modern aikido world, the concept of martial reality can get rather abstract, so I think your comments are quite cogent. I appreciate them, anyway. I often think of a video I saw of a Phillipino who had been in a machete fight. He was lying on a hospital gurney with one hand cut completely off, the other mangled, and several deep gashes in his head. He was writhing in obviously horrible pain. It was a sickeningly graphic clip. Very sobering. I don't take knives lightly and I do respect them.

I think you'd find Dan Harden very interesting to talk with and meet. He forges katana and kukri and has a deep background in blade fighting as well as IP/IS.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.esotericorange.com
 
Old 03-04-2011, 01:29 AM   #147
NTT
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

London or New York reality is not the reality for all. Street life is not the life for all.
Aikido is up to my reality and I live well walking my streets and forests.
I did have to fight with a group in Corsica when I was in the wrong place at the wrong time. So on in our towns.
None got injured. Maybe it is due to different ways of going out of a fight, depending on countries or cultures.
My question is "Is your Aikido up to Colombian street reality or some other hotspots?" What about trying Lybian streets today?
The question for me is choosing one's reality and finding answers for it.

A friend of mine who is in fencing (the old kind) said that Maîtres d'Armes don't like to talk about their art because it ends up in killing.

Nguyen Thanh Thien
Walk the distance, keep the distance
Aikido Yuishinkai in France
Hyoho Niten Ichi Ryu
 
Old 03-04-2011, 02:30 AM   #148
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
David Orange wrote: View Post
Really, saying "old whoever" is sort of an affectionate usage over here: "There's old Bob!" "I saw old George today!" And we don't always use it with "old" people. We start using it that way in our teens. There's "good old boy" and "good old buddy," which I've used with my son since he was a baby. He's six now and I call him "old man." I just forgot that it might not read the same way on your side.

Best to you.

David
David
To be honest it is exactly the same here, said with friendship and affection in most cases.
The problem is when you get old you know you are `old`...

Kenshiro Abbe Sensei always said that the peak age for a man was aound 50yrs, he said young men cannot resist using strength, when a man reaches 50 yrs he needs to use his mind and body to good effect.....when older potential beginners ask if they are too old at 40 plus to join, we usually tell them what our teachers had said about age.

Henry Ellis
Silence is Approval
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/

Last edited by Hellis : 03-04-2011 at 02:33 AM.
 
Old 03-04-2011, 02:43 AM   #149
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

We were at Kenshiro Abbe Sensei's dojo in Sandwich Street Kings Cross London..Abbe Sensei unusally left a few minutes before the group of us to head for the Tube Station...As he he walked away from the dojo 3 yobs came from the opposite side of the street and demanded " Give us yer wallet old man " - Abbe stood still before throwing his wallet on the ground just in front of his feet - the yobs demanded that he kick the wallet over to them - Abbe said " No! I am prepared to die for my wallet, are you ??" ....he said they looked at each other and ran off...................when asked how much was in this `valuable ` wallet, Abbe replied " No money, I like this wallet "................................

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-04-2011, 03:50 AM   #150
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Oisin Bourke wrote: View Post
They are all great points. Perhaps the approach the Japanese have towards practicing "martial arts" may have something to do with the fact that their country is so safe?
I would suggest you read their newspapers online, it is on the increase with western influence, It's not as safe as it was during their rise to commercial and industrial success. Suicide has a big stake there to
They are not as innocent as they like to make out.....
 

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