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Old 02-28-2011, 12:29 PM   #51
ewolput
Dojo: Shobukai
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Basically I can understand Tony very well. He is asking if the training is good enough to survive in a "cruel"world. Most of us have to admit that our training is focused on other items of our society. I met some very good teachers of japanese martial arts who never had a fight on the street. They have a very high level, but their mind is not set to fight as a matter of life and death.
Some time ago, Tadayuki Sato a student of Tomiki sensei, told me: the purpose of our aikido training is a educational one.......
But maybe Tony is right when he critisism people who are claiming to teach real life selfdefense and who never experienced the "cruel" world.
In my younger days, I asked myself the question : can I fight that person(s) and beat them?
Now I am asking myself : can I really throw that resisting opponent? and can I do this without hurting my opponent?
So, my aikido (?) of my younger days, I can say I survived. My contemporary (correct word?) aikido, I don't know because I always (try to) avoid dangerious situations.

Eddy Wolput
 
Old 02-28-2011, 01:06 PM   #52
Dave de Vos
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Sure I understand that Tony requires street effective training, being in his situation. Being a cab driver is about as dangerous as being a police officer, perhaps even more.

But I don't understand that Tony does not understand that most people don't really need it. An average person in a western democracy is far more likely to be hurt in an accident than by violence. Defensive driving is more effective for their safety than realistic martial art training. Those are the facts.

But for me, although adding more "realism" in my training is not a requirement, it would be interesting. In fact I'm giving it a try out of curiosity. Last friday I joined the full contact karate class where my son trains. I think I will train there for a couple of months. I don't want to become a fighter and I don't want to participate in competitions. I just want to experience what it's like to train to hit and be hit. I know even this is not real, because there are rules and as a beginner I won't be hit full force. I liked my fisrt lessons. I got bruised in different places than in aikido training

But I don't want to train by getting into a real fight.

Last edited by Dave de Vos : 02-28-2011 at 01:21 PM.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 01:27 PM   #53
Hellis
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Jonathan take care of that.....Oh next time you catch a cab which you most likely don't use because it sounds like you live in a fairly effluent society, make sure you tip the cabbie, or he'll think you a right tight arse.....!!

Take Care

Tony
Spot the deliberate mistake not such a nice area ?

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
 
Old 02-28-2011, 01:44 PM   #54
Hillendflynn
Location: Manchester
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Atillio
Thanks for your post, i confess i am new to aikiweb and have had some enjoyment reading your post and the subsequent posts that followed.
Would you say that aikido helps you to perceive violent problems that might arise before they happen? If so how? I am interested, keen and open to hear your views.
I also went to look at some of the Tomiki style aikido clips and the randori clips seemed to me a little like a wrestle off - do you not think that if you [understandably if you are afraid of being attacked] desire physical domination over anyone who might attack you, a more rounded fighting style would suit you better or are you of the conviction that the style of aikido you learn is the best available fighting art?
Many thanks in advance
Sean
 
Old 02-28-2011, 01:49 PM   #55
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Dave de Vos wrote: View Post
Sure I understand that Tony requires street effective training, being in his situation. Being a cab driver is about as dangerous as being a police officer, perhaps even more.

But I don't understand that Tony does not understand that most people don't really need it. An average person in a western democracy is far more likely to be hurt in an accident than by violence. Defensive driving is more effective for their safety than realistic martial art training. Those are the facts.

But for me, although adding more "realism" in my training is not a requirement, it would be interesting. In fact I'm giving it a try out of curiosity. Last friday I joined the full contact karate class where my son trains. I think I will train there for a couple of months. I don't want to become a fighter and I don't want to participate in competitions. I just want to experience what it's like to train to hit and be hit. I know even this is not real, because there are rules and as a beginner I won't be hit full force. I liked my fisrt lessons. I got bruised in different places than in aikido training

But I don't want to train by getting into a real fight.
Dave, who does? The point is as Eddy quoted, I train in the T/S tradition but add my own experience to it.... I have found that practice in resistance is a good learning curve and will to some extent help you in an hostile situation. You are right in saying that you don't need more realism in your training, that is your choice and that is fine.... I say that I give my students a choice up till the age of 50. They do not have to do the pressure testing unless they really want their shodan. After 50 it is a bit too much too expect so we make allowances....
It is a very vulnerable job being a cabbie and that is one of it's drawbacks, but there are the high points when people thank you for your kind and helpful services either verbally or with a nice tip!!
Day time trade is mostly elderly people, who need patience with their ailments and a kind ear for their problems which they tend to unload.... to some I'm a saint to others a robbing bastard.....
 
Old 02-28-2011, 02:05 PM   #56
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Sean Flynn wrote: View Post
Atillio
Thanks for your post, i confess i am new to aikiweb and have had some enjoyment reading your post and the subsequent posts that followed.
Would you say that aikido helps you to perceive violent problems that might arise before they happen? If so how? I am interested, keen and open to hear your views.
I also went to look at some of the Tomiki style aikido clips and the randori clips seemed to me a little like a wrestle off - do you not think that if you [understandably if you are afraid of being attacked] desire physical domination over anyone who might attack you, a more rounded fighting style would suit you better or are you of the conviction that the style of aikido you learn is the best available fighting art?
Many thanks in advance
Sean
You have to remember that T/S is sport aikido as well as traditional.
In my profession one has to be responsible as one can lose their licence to operate if one is found to be a violent person. It is a position of trust. I would say that my street awareness and experience is what helps me to perceive a possible situation kicking off, but I am not telepathic no !!
It's body language, attitude, not so very difficult to see, how crowds become restless, people becoming impatient.... it's all there if you keep your mind and eyes open.....
A good knowledge of grappling is good as well as a good knowledge of atemi and being able to adapt is important, the truth is nothing is absolute.....Does that help?

Regards

Tony
 
Old 02-28-2011, 03:00 PM   #57
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Spot the deliberate mistake not such a nice area ?

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
Henry,
You might conclude that this statement is a load of crap. Cheers, Joe.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:22 PM   #58
Jonathan
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Jonathan you suggested that maybe I was/is possibly violent? Read your own post..... not by choice no.....
Well, if your life as a cabbie is as fraught with danger and violence as you suggest I don't imagine your a perfect pacifist.

Quote:
A& E is a vocation by those that work in these conditions.... Getting another job is not an option and you would be glad of their services if the worst was to happen to you..... which it won't will it?
Like I said, I don't find violence because I don't go looking for it.

Quote:
And your ability? I kind of doubt it....... by your answer
Well, you would, wouldn't you? It seems if I'm not in perfect agreement with you, then there is simply no way I can be training well. Doesn't this degree of myopia give you any pause at all?

Quote:
Sorry about your bi polar parent..... Life's a bitch eh? Some don't even have parents!!
No, life's okay, actually. I love my bi-polar parent -- craziness and all.

Quote:
As for getting up close to blood and drunkenness you won't have to put up with that either because there are those who do to keep you comfortable and away from it.....
And your point is?

Quote:
Oh next time you catch a cab which you most likely don't use because it sounds like you live in a fairly effluent society, make sure you tip the cabbie, or he'll think you a right tight arse.....!!
I'm sure my society is no more "effluent" than yours.

I am a generous tipper -- to those who have earned it.

You take care, too.

Jon.

"Iron sharpens iron; so a man sharpens the countenance of his friend."
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:40 PM   #59
akiy
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
First of all I would like to say thank you Jun for banning me from this site for one month, It seems to me that having controversial opinions and thought is not very welcomed by many on this site....
Just to clarify, I do not (usually) impose posting restrictions on people for the topics that they raise but for the tone and manner that they employ in discussion the topics. That is all I'm going to say on that subject at this time.

I leave you now to your discussion.

-- Jun

Please help support AikiWeb -- become an AikiWeb Contributing Member!
 
Old 02-28-2011, 04:59 PM   #60
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

In the sense that I make no assumptions about "my" aikido, then yes, it is up to reality.
Also, to be fair, I don't think it was simply having controversial views which people found offensive, and some would say the "does your aikido work" threads are just as tired as the IP/IS threads.
I'm all for people telling each other to look harder at what they're doing, though. Good luck with that.
Take care,
Matt

Gambarimashyo!
 
Old 02-28-2011, 07:53 PM   #61
Chicko Xerri
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Plus ONE MORE

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-blogs.blogspot.com/
Just as the Blogs imply, Aikido is way beyond Martial Arts of the past.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 08:13 PM   #62
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Just to clarify, I do not (usually) impose posting restrictions on people for the topics that they raise but for the tone and manner that they employ in discussion the topics. That is all I'm going to say on that subject at this time.

I leave you now to your discussion.

-- Jun
Thanks Jun....

Hope you are enjoying it to....
 
Old 02-28-2011, 08:34 PM   #63
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Eddy Wolput wrote: View Post
Basically I can understand Tony very well. He is asking if the training is good enough to survive in a "cruel"world. Most of us have to admit that our training is focused on other items of our society. I met some very good teachers of japanese martial arts who never had a fight on the street. They have a very high level, but their mind is not set to fight as a matter of life and death.
Some time ago, Tadayuki Sato a student of Tomiki sensei, told me: the purpose of our aikido training is a educational one.......
But maybe Tony is right when he critisism people who are claiming to teach real life selfdefense and who never experienced the "cruel" world.
In my younger days, I asked myself the question : can I fight that person(s) and beat them?
Now I am asking myself : can I really throw that resisting opponent? and can I do this without hurting my opponent?
So, my aikido (?) of my younger days, I can say I survived. My contemporary (correct word?) aikido, I don't know because I always (try to) avoid dangerious situations.

Eddy Wolput
I would concur with trying to avoid dangerous situations Eddy....
When chatting to the local beat police and doormen as we all do from time to time, there is a certain amount of banter and serious discussion, but we all agree that we all have one thing in common "the public" We see it all when the worst comes out and believe me it gets quite surreal !! We laugh when we say the job is great, its the public that ruin it !! We have good relationships with the police and doormen as it helps to help eachother to disperse crowds of unruly youngsters and get them home safely. In the main most are reasonably well behaved, it's the 10% who ruin it for the rest.... and it's us who have to deal with it..... No one wants to hurt anybody so "aikido" does have it's uses, but it has to be adapted to the situation...
British law states that one can use reasonable force for self defence, that is, one should not go over the top..... not so easy when things get overheated and one is trying to control the situation with unreasonable people. Easier said than done, that is for sure.....

Regards

Tony
 
Old 02-28-2011, 09:44 PM   #64
John O'Rorey
Dojo: Koshinkan Aikido Dojo
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

I know I'm new to the forums, and new to Aikido, but not to fighting. I've been in countless fights growing up and in adult life and some in the boxing ring. But, before you accuse me of being aggressive or a ruffian, I come from a police family. They were in defense, and I was justified. The boxing was more for sport, but works, too.

I can really appreciate that in the dojo I attend we have a sensei that has only done aikido, one that is a black belt in karate and has done boxing and something else, and the dojo cho having tai chi chuan and jujutsu along with 20 years in aikido. They all bring something different to the table, and they all bring different energy.

Starting with rank, one man seems to gather all of his energy from the earth, one from his self, one from his spirit, and recently another sensei with his mind. All of these people show the atemi, but they all offer something entirely different to the toolbox of your mind and body. Atemi is never shunned away, and is always looked at as an option.

Do I think Aikido works from a boxing to street fighting standpoint? Absolutely. I wish I could count the number of options in techniques in which I was sure I could deliver the one-hitter-quitter. The footwork, misdirection, center, positioning, and balance of yourself and the other is priceless in any troubled situation. And I can honestly say that being accepting of an attack, or counter attack is invaluable. Absolutely invaluable.

Was the man that chose to be passive against multiple attackers while they were harassing him and his family in the wrong? I don't think so at all. We have to remember that we must do the most sensible and loving thing we can do at the time. It's all about the choice. What if this man tried to be less-than-Aiki and be the hero and was seriously injured, maimed, or killed? The fact that he is in one piece, uninjured, means he can love his family and provide for them another day. That is more honorable than trying to use Aikido as a tool for dispatching justice.

Perhaps we all need to take a step back sometimes and tear our focus away from the routine, the one-two-three, and bring the shoshin. Maybe some philosophy and supreme truth wouldn't hurt, either.

Also I know that a lot of our standardized police tactics in the area are moving to an aikido feel. I'm convinced it works, and it's definitely up to my reality; at least from the dojo I attend, and with the teachers I have, and from my personal experience.

But, in that sense if everyone thought one thing worked absolutely there wouldn't be multiple associations, schools, and federations.

Last edited by John O'Rorey : 02-28-2011 at 09:52 PM.
 
Old 02-28-2011, 10:33 PM   #65
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

As I've mentioned before, I have over three decades of police work under my belt and have seen my share of violence and evil. One thing that I've learned for certain is that there is always someone just around the corner who is tougher, bigger, stronger, younger, faster, more skilled, better armed, whatever.

I've also learned that unless you are there, at that moment, you haven't much right to judge the action or conduct of another. In the example of the martial artist who supposedly cowered in front of his family, he was there and was able to assess the situation far better than the rest of us Monday Morning Quarterbacks. He saw his physical environment - how close he was to walls and fixed structures, seats, trash cans. He knew the footing, the lighting. He could see the "bad guys" and have an idea of their physical condition, state of sobriety, and other factors. He probably recognized other factors on a subconscious level that he couldn't articulate if we gave him a ream of paper and week to do so. He made a decision based on the totality of the circumstances before him and at least in terms of the safety of his family, he was corrrect. Maybe he was a craven coward and maybe he demonstrated a certain level of restraint. To judge his actions across the internet and across time without having full knowledge of the situation is simply an exercise in making oneself feel good.

When a law enforcement officer is killed or injured in the line of duty, we usually examine the events and use it as a training tool. One of the things I've heard time and time again is something to the effect of "Jones screwed up by doing X and I would never do that." It makes us all feel so much better to know that we would never do X ourselves - until of course we do our own personal X and get hurt.

Aikido works. Karate works, Boxing works. Tai Chi works. Firearms work. Most of the time anyway. I know of one case where the bad guy received several mortal wounds and went on to execute an FBI agent before he died himself.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
 
Old 03-01-2011, 12:57 AM   #66
observer
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

It is interesting that Demetrio Cereijo quoted the words of Yukiyoshi Takamura in this discussion:

A pacifist is not really a pacifist if he is unable to make a choice between violence and non-violence. A true pacifist is able to kill or maim in the blink of an eye, but at the moment of impending destruction of the enemy he chooses non-violence. He chooses peace. He must be able to make a choice.

However, referring them to aikido is incomprehensible to many, I suppose. Maybe I should refer back to the history of aikido.

Morihei Ushiba considered the meeting with Onisubaru Deguchi in 1925 a turning point in his life.

He decided to sell off all his ancestral land and move to Ayabe to study Omoto-kyo. For the next eight years, Ueshiba studied with Deguchi Onisaburo, taught Budo, and headed up the local fire brigade.

A pacifist, Deguchi was an advocate of non-violent resistance and universal Disarmament. He Noted that you have said, "Armament and war are the Means by Which the landlords and capitalists make Their profit, while the poor suffer." It is intriguing That a man of this nature could become so close to a martial artist as a dry Ueshiba. However, it did not take long for Deguchi to realize That Ueshiba's purpose on earth was "to teach the Real Meaning of Budo: an end to all fighting and contention." (Http://www.aikidofaq.com/history/osensei.html)


As you might guess, Ushiba's idea for a new art found grounds for implementation in that place and at that time. His idea had been illustrated by two events:

1. In the course of a discussion about martial arts, a disagreement Arose Between O-Sensei and a naval officer who was a fencing instructor. The officer challenged O-Sensei is a match, and attacked with a wooden sword. O-Sensei faced the officer, unarmed, and won the match by Evading blows until his attacker dropped from exhaustion. (Http://www.aikidocentercity.com/2.html)

2. Takeshita's contacts with the Imperial family and led a demonstration at the Imperial Palace Sainenkan dojo in 1941. Ueshiba first resisted the invitation stating That he did not want to demonstrat "false" dry techniques before an audience Illustrious. By this he meant if he That Performed "real" techniques his partner would be killed! Finally, Admiral Takeshita, always the diplomat, Ueshiba Persuaded to show his "lies" anyway. (Http://omlc.ogi.edu/aikido/talk/osensei/bio/mori4.html)


In order to understand Ueshiba's quoted words, it is sufficient to look carefully at all the aikido techniques. A particular moment during execution of aikido techniques when an uke stiffens and falls to the ground head down, is a common point in all aikido techniques. During training, we protect uke's head from touching the ground and spraining his neck. Thus, we make a choice between using or not using violence and we become pacifists in accordance with Yukiyoshi Takamura words.

To summarize it all, we are studying MA, the art of killing - budo, which today includes the Katori Shinto Ryu, Kyudo, Naginata-do, etc. Those who practice budo aim only for absolute perfection. In case of aikido, perfection is found in the Morihei Ueshiba's unsurpassed craftsmanship of avoiding the attack and the speed and precision of techniques' performance. In Aikio there's no need to improvise attacks. All you have to do is simply master trained reflexes through repetition and increase their speed. Are these skills useful on the streets? Well, it depends on us.

Last edited by observer : 03-01-2011 at 01:11 AM.
 
Old 03-01-2011, 02:35 AM   #67
Flintstone
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Jun Akiyama wrote: View Post
Just to clarify, I do not (usually) impose posting restrictions on people for the topics that they raise but for the tone and manner that they employ in discussion the topics. That is all I'm going to say on that subject at this time.
Well, for me it's becoming quite usual. Either that or you enjoy banning people.
 
Old 03-01-2011, 03:00 AM   #68
raul rodrigo
Location: Quezon City
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Well, for me it's becoming quite usual. Either that or you enjoy banning people.
Maybe people get banned for a good reason.
 
Old 03-01-2011, 03:20 AM   #69
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Hi Maciej,

I think you should also consider in 1932 Omoto founded the Dai Nippon Budo Senyokai, a martial arts enhancement association that claimed:

Genuine Bu (martial pursuits) comes from God…and is the way of refuting false doctrines and bringing out truth in order to realize God's plan here on the earth by conquering techniques of destruction… Genuine bu protects this nation of the gods and brings peace to the world and mankind

I'm not really sure Deguchi was the same kind of non-violent pacifist Gandhi was.

Also, Nidai Doshu publically stated (as reported by E. Amdur) his father was not a pacifist.

BTW,

War, in this sense, is not by any means intended for the destruction, overpowering, or subjugation of others; and it should be a thing for bringing about great harmony, or peace in other words.

Who am I quoting now?
 
Old 03-01-2011, 03:20 AM   #70
Flintstone
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Spain
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Raul Rodrigo wrote: View Post
Maybe people get banned for a good reason.
And maybe not. You know, that kind of argument is reversible...
 
Old 03-01-2011, 03:41 AM   #71
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
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England
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Jonathan Hay
"""Like I said, I don't find violence because I don't go looking for it. """

Jonathan
I would suggest that 99% of victims of violence didn't go looking for trouble, it found them, - wrong time, wrong place is often quoted.
Take a look at Tony's video of the innocent mother and child...
Regards
Henry Ellis
http://aikido-books.blogspot.com/
 
Old 03-01-2011, 03:45 AM   #72
dps
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

"Watch what people are cynical about, and one can often discover what they lack." -- George S. Patton

dps
 
Old 03-01-2011, 04:45 AM   #73
dps
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Aikido without martial ability is like light beer.

Taste great but is less filling.

Aikido-Lite

dps
 
Old 03-01-2011, 05:17 AM   #74
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Quote:
Michael Hackett wrote: View Post
As I've mentioned before, I have over three decades of police work under my belt and have seen my share of violence and evil. One thing that I've learned for certain is that there is always someone just around the corner who is tougher, bigger, stronger, younger, faster, more skilled, better armed, whatever.

I've also learned that unless you are there, at that moment, you haven't much right to judge the action or conduct of another. In the example of the martial artist who supposedly cowered in front of his family, he was there and was able to assess the situation far better than the rest of us Monday Morning Quarterbacks. He saw his physical environment - how close he was to walls and fixed structures, seats, trash cans. He knew the footing, the lighting. He could see the "bad guys" and have an idea of their physical condition, state of sobriety, and other factors. He probably recognized other factors on a subconscious level that he couldn't articulate if we gave him a ream of paper and week to do so. He made a decision based on the totality of the circumstances before him and at least in terms of the safety of his family, he was corrrect. Maybe he was a craven coward and maybe he demonstrated a certain level of restraint. To judge his actions across the internet and across time without having full knowledge of the situation is simply an exercise in making oneself feel good.

When a law enforcement officer is killed or injured in the line of duty, we usually examine the events and use it as a training tool. One of the things I've heard time and time again is something to the effect of "Jones screwed up by doing X and I would never do that." It makes us all feel so much better to know that we would never do X ourselves - until of course we do our own personal X and get hurt.

Aikido works. Karate works, Boxing works. Tai Chi works. Firearms work. Most of the time anyway. I know of one case where the bad guy received several mortal wounds and went on to execute an FBI agent before he died himself.
Your are right it all works..... I carry a shortened down jo at the back of my cab seat, just in case the odds are not favourable. I have never had to use it yet, but it's there as insurance..... There have been times when I have been out in the middle of nowhere.....
IE Six pissed up rugby players have kicked off about the fare!! I am being threatened with physical violence and I have used my powers of persuasion not to let it escalate!! When there is six of them and one of you, with no protection but yourself I can tell you now it isn't a nice feeling..... It's no good calling the old bill because it would take to long for them to get there. All the other cabbies are miles away from (The old bill will have that irritating way of telling you that a crime hasn't been committed yet!!)
After my persuasive chat, they said I had "effing bottle" and even tipped me!! They didn't know about the jo !!
I may have had "effing bottle" but tell that to my quivering rear orrifice!!
 
Old 03-01-2011, 07:12 AM   #75
mrlizard123
Dojo: Templegate Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Oct 2009
Posts: 129
United Kingdom
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Re: Is your Aikido as a Martial Art up to Reality?

Just a short couple of points that I think are central to these discussions.

There is a logical fallacy that is employed which is essentially:
- I train in aikido.
- I have defended myself in a violent situation/martial context...
- Aikido is effective in a violent situation/martial context...

It is also a fallacy to reason:
- I train in aikido
- I was unable to defend myself in [insert scenario]
- Aikido is ineffective in [insert scenario]

I trained in meditation, a guy attacked me and I hit him with a 2x4 which dropped him flat; my mediation is martially effective.

We can train and become martially effective but that does not mean that our training paradigm necessarily is equipping us with martially effective aikido.

Now please feel free to descend into arguing over "what is/isn't aikido" or "what aikido means to me" if that is what you wish...

Using the experience of a specific person in a specific scenario to determine whether a training paradigm produces a) aikido and b) something martially effective is very easy to fall into traps of false logic.

I'm not going to comment at this stage on what does or does not make something martially effective/aikido/etc.

Please feel free to decide for yourselves but bear in mind that your perception does not necessarily equal that of someone else or an objective truth.

Ars longa, vita brevis, occasio praeceps, experimentum periculosum, iudicium difficile
 

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