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Old 10-27-2000, 06:48 PM   #1
Uresu
Dojo: Komurokwai kin kuso aikijutsu
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Has anyone heard or read about that controversy regarding Jack Poole Sensei from the UK? Does anyone have any views?

Wes Harris

Centre, centre, centre.
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Old 10-27-2000, 06:52 PM   #2
Nick
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no- what's goin on? I like to hear about some things goin on on the other side of the atlantic .

Nick

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Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 10-30-2000, 05:47 AM   #3
Uresu
Dojo: Komurokwai kin kuso aikijutsu
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Ai symbol

Quote:
Nick wrote:
no- what's goin on? I like to hear about some things goin on on the other side of the atlantic .

Nick
Basically there was an article in fighting arts magazine calling into question Poole sensei's time in aikido. He sent out invitations inviting people to help celebrate his forty seven years in British aikido. One of his old sensei's (whose name has escaped me) stated that he taught Poole sensei as a beginner and that was less than forty seven years ago. I just wondered if anybody had any opinions considering aikido has not been in the U.K. for forty seven years.

Wes Harris

Centre, centre, centre.
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Old 10-30-2000, 02:06 PM   #4
Guest5678
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Talking

I have a better question......................................who cares? Whether it's forty seven or a hundred and forty seven years ago, as long as it's there now and people are involved! Hell I can't even remember when I started and that wasn't that long ago! JUST KEEP PRACTICING!


" If your waiting for me, you're backing up! "

-Dan P. - Mongo
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Old 10-30-2000, 03:07 PM   #5
Uresu
Dojo: Komurokwai kin kuso aikijutsu
Location: Sheffield, UK
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Thumbs up

Quote:
Mongo wrote:
I have a better question......................................who cares? Whether it's forty seven or a hundred and forty seven years ago, as long as it's there now and people are involved! Hell I can't even remember when I started and that wasn't that long ago! JUST KEEP PRACTICING!

-Dan P. - Mongo
You may think it is not a big deal and to be honest neither do I, but it is not our opinions that count, it's the bureaucrats who run the societies that can make a difference to peoples lives. I just wondered what people thought. Serious issue? or storm in a teacup?

Wes Harris.

Centre, centre, centre.
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Old 10-30-2000, 10:16 PM   #6
crystalwizard
Dojo: Aikido of Dallas
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What I wonder is...why would the man lie about how long he's been practiceing aikido. 47 is a really odd number to use in a lie. Much more likely he'd use 50 if he was making it up. So ok one sensei remembers teaching him as a beginner...does that mean that he didn't take aikido previously, some where else and yet still considered himself a beginner? just because he's in the UK does that mean he absoutely couldn't have studied outside the UK early on? Shrug. lots of questions.

Personal opinion is that if he wants to claim 47 years, unless someone can prove with dates that he hasn't been practicing aikido that long then there's no reason to disbelieve him.

Shrug. How many of you can say for absolutely certain how long someone else in your dojo has been studying aikido? Or even remember for sure the exact date you started yourself.

just my 0.02

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Kelly Christiansen

A loving person lives in a loving world. A hostile person lives in a hostile world. Everyone you meet is your mirror
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Old 08-30-2002, 01:41 AM   #7
peteswann
Dojo: Shinwakai UK
Location: Slough, Berkshire
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A question for Wes.

What magazine was it in and do you know the issue number??

I know it is a long time after your initial post but I have only just got back on line properly after what seems an age!!

Cheers

Pete

Pete
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Old 08-30-2002, 03:05 AM   #8
Kami
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
Location: Brazil
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Wink JACK POOLE SENSEI

Quote:
Wes Harris (Uresu) wrote:
You may think it is not a big deal and to be honest neither do I, but it is not our opinions that count, it's the bureaucrats who run the societies that can make a difference to peoples lives. I just wondered what people thought. Serious issue? or storm in a teacup?

Wes Harris.
KAMI : I'd say "a storm in a teacup", Uresu. Do you know the people which raised this problem? Are they politically against him?
The important things are : What he's doing NOW? Is he good at what he does? Is he respected by his students and by his community? Did you personally know him and what do you think about his technique?
The rest is really somehow unimportant...
And about the bureaucrats, don't let them rule your life. Try to do your best against their influence on your life and training.
Best

Last edited by Kami : 08-30-2002 at 03:08 AM.

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

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Old 08-30-2002, 03:31 AM   #9
Nathan Pereira
Dojo: Joseikan Jui Jitsu/MMA/Aikido Rickmansworth, Herts
Location: England
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Don't want to get too involved in this but for those of you who are unclear of the facts these are them as I remember.

The other teacher is Henry Ellis who studied under Abbe[sp] sensei who i think is creditd as bringing Aikido to the UK.

I think Ellis Henry Ellis's problem with JP claiming 47 years is that if it is correct/incorrect it is completely changing the history of the roots of Aikido in the UK. In effect walking over the sacrafices made by the first Japanese teachers and there students.

He does have the backing of several high ranking UK sensei and Chiba sensei aswell. He also has some excellent photographic evidence. He and many others clearly remember JP being very much a beginner in his ability when he started training with Ellis.

Henry Ellis has a web page where full details of this farcical situation are open for you to form your own opinion [Google search for Henry Ellis Aikido should be sufficient].

I do agree that at the end of the day if you can get on the mats and can talk the talk and walk the walk then nothing else matters. I don't believe Henry Ellis is actually questioning JP's ability just his honesty in publically accepting a statue for his 47 years.


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Old 08-30-2002, 06:14 PM   #10
deepsoup
Dojo: Sheffield Shodokan Dojo
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Quote:
Nathan Pereira wrote:
The other teacher is Henry Ellis who studied under Abbe[sp] sensei who i think is creditd as bringing Aikido to the UK.
Not only aikido, he's also generally acknowledged as the first person to teach karate, kendo and kyudo in the uk. (All of which he did whilst teaching judo, until then the only form of budo practiced in this country.)

Sean

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Old 08-30-2002, 10:05 PM   #11
Kevin Leavitt
 
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I think the question you should ask yourself is: "how does this personally affect you?"

Maybe spend that energy someplace else?

Honesty and integrity are important, yes. But I'd let the people this impacts and cares worry about that!

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