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Old 02-16-2011, 11:17 AM   #51
C. David Henderson
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Well, that's not really all of what you said or what you meant, but that's all right. I also went back and counted five people who questioned your premises, but that's all right too.

Its your thread, carry on.

David Henderson
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Old 02-16-2011, 11:50 AM   #52
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

But what do you think I meant? Maybe so it is easier for me to reply. Do clear questions..
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:19 PM   #53
Diana Frese
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Not to interrupt, Carina, but there is a friend of mine with whom I still talk on the phone, and I haven't been to Boston in thirty years.

I met her at a summer camp and her teacher's teacher was Kanai Sensei so also her teacher at seminars and camps. He was famous for handshakes, that must be what he picked up from American culture. He was also famous for hanmi, which I tried to learn, to keep balance since I am rather tall.

Chiba Sensei wrote in an article that Kanai Sensei, whom he called "Hanbei" would sometimres appear suddenly and he did when I was showing Ginny the Kanai Sensei handshake (in Aikido style hanmi)

"What that?' he asked with an amused expression on his face (he still had an accent at the time) Maybe he thought we were practicing on our own outside of class.

What could I say, we couldn't lie to him.

"The Kanai Sensei handshake."

"Uh oh," I thought, he's gonna be mad at us for mimicking him.

"That's funny" he chuckled, and disappeared again leaving us speechless amazed at what had just happened.

So later when I had students I passed it on to them.

I hope this fits into your question about learning different customs!
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Old 02-16-2011, 02:28 PM   #54
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

I like that a lot, thanks Diana.
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:48 AM   #55
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
For me it means ...
What I tried to say:
You are used to kissing and to let people very near (I mean literally the space, the centimeters ...) from being a child on. You learned it this way and so you are famliar with it and you like it. Because you are famliar.

I learned that kissing someone has a completely different meaning. I learned to feel comfortable with another distance when greeting someone. So I am familiar with an like this different custom. And because of having experienced this all my life, I know how to judge it. I am able to feel the warm relation in it and I can easily get to someone even not coming him or her near in centimeters.

Same with "Sie" and "Du". I know this from being a child. And it doesn't hinder anything when meeting another person. I just know how to deal with it without thinking about I. I can feel the other person right through.

But: I can not "feel" the other person when he or she comes near like when kissing for greeting or when using "du/tu ..." I have to remember myself: This is not a friend who is near. This is just someone I just met. Behaving like a dear friend is just a custom in this country. ....

note: In northern Germany there often is no "Sie" but just the "Du" like in Scandinavia.
In the Netherlands (u) or France (vous) there is the equivalent "Sie" at least for strangers. And in the US I experienced with "Sir" something we have no real expression for in German. (I think.)

It's all just about what we know in a deep sense and what we are used to.
Endo sensei last week called exactly this our jail/prison. ;-)
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Old 02-17-2011, 12:53 AM   #56
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Yes, Carsten, that is nicely said, thas is also what I wanted to explain, it is always what we are used to. Even when people move to another country, like here to Spain they get very fast used to our costum.
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Old 02-17-2011, 02:50 AM   #57
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
Even when people move to another country, like here to Spain they get very fast used to our costum.
Same here.

We have a little spanish community here in my hometown. And they also acclimate fast.

Well but this is natural because if you don't respect the customs of the community you live in, you simply send the wrong signals. You are just not understood and con not express yourself in the right way.
So the spanish people who live an work here just shake hands when meeting. Or nod.

Quote:
I think it is always good to express emotions good or bad, it is not good to keep them inside.
This is a different point.
Well, you can express emotions in very different ways - if you want to. And as I said: I can "read" people who live here.
And they usually can "read" my emotions.
I can not read the emotions behind certain costums, which are connected to love, friendship, family and so on in my context. But are used in other cultures also in different oder just "normal" contexts.

But: Whether it is desirable at all to express emotions or not is a question in its own right, I think. And there are different answers in different cultures for different reasons.

For you it may be desirable to express your emotions directly. I don't like this and I become nearly suspicious when someone does in a "normal" context.

Maybe I don't get your questions or statements right because I assume that people are a little bit informed about different costums in different countries. So I am looking for the question behind the question ... ;-)
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Old 02-17-2011, 03:29 AM   #58
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
So I am looking for the question behind the question ... ;-)
Is the 'spanish' way of expressing feelings culturally superior and more benefitial than the ways you calvinist heathens heretic tall & blonde people use?

(joking of course)

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Old 02-17-2011, 03:46 AM   #59
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
you calvinist heathens heretic
ooops, I'm lutheran. So only heretic but not heathen.
Only very few calvinists round here.

Quote:
tall & blonde people ...
Is 1.68 m really tall in Spain?

Must be a nice country ...
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Old 02-17-2011, 04:29 AM   #60
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Is 1.68 m really tall in Spain?
Slighty over average (because I'm 1.65 and I define what is average)


Quote:
Must be a nice country ...
Something between Portugal and France

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Old 02-17-2011, 04:54 AM   #61
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Yes Carsten I know that people get used to the costums in the country they move to generally .
I began the thread with our costums in the dojo, but it got to costums in general. With your costums in Germany do you do something together outside the dojo, like traveling together to a seminar outside your city, go out together for dinner, make a BBQ or play bowling together, something more than just have a drink in the bar beside the dojo after training?
And about beeing tall Demetrio and you, average size used to be by that. Now the young people are taller than that, maybe something between 1,70-1,75m
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Old 02-17-2011, 05:50 AM   #62
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
With your costums in Germany do you do something together outside the dojo, like ... something more than just have a drink in the bar beside the dojo after training?
One of my dohai is my closest friend and we meet outside the dojo for different activities. (E.g. I did his wedding ceremony )
Some others of the students are also friends and meet outside the dojo.

But besides that, the people usually just come to train. Everyone has his or her own familiy, friends, job ...
We meet to train. Just that.
Even "having a drink in the bar beside the dojo after training" is very seldom.
There are few opportunities like birthday parties or something like that and then it's mostly the elder ones, who know each other for ten or fifteen years, who atcually follow the inivitation.

Sounds harsh maybe, but aikido for most of us is not a "social activity".
Although: When someone needs the others everyone helps. Hard to describe. We are not friends, but know each other very well and often for a long time.

So there are very few social activities besides the training. But nobody misses them because the people are comming to train and not to meet people.
(There are even people who don't want the other students to know their email address.)
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:06 AM   #63
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
And about beeing tall Demetrio and you, average size used to be by that. Now the young people are taller than that, maybe something between 1,70-1,75m
The young people are wrong. I say average is 1.65. It's how I build my reality what really counts.

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Old 02-17-2011, 06:13 AM   #64
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
One of my dohai is my closest friend and we meet outside the dojo for different activities. (E.g. I did his wedding ceremony )
Some others of the students are also friends and meet outside the dojo.

But besides that, the people usually just come to train. Everyone has his or her own familiy, friends, job ...
We meet to train. Just that.
Even "having a drink in the bar beside the dojo after training" is very seldom.
There are few opportunities like birthday parties or something like that and then it's mostly the elder ones, who know each other for ten or fifteen years, who atcually follow the inivitation.

Sounds harsh maybe, but aikido for most of us is not a "social activity".
Although: When someone needs the others everyone helps. Hard to describe. We are not friends, but know each other very well and often for a long time.

So there are very few social activities besides the training. But nobody misses them because the people are comming to train and not to meet people.
(There are even people who don't want the other students to know their email address.)
It is ok Carsten, I'm thinking that we are an exception thanks to our great teacher, he is also an exception as teacher an human beeing, we are very lucky.
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:16 AM   #65
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
The young people are wrong. I say average is 1.65. It's how I build my reality what really counts.
Ok Demetrio I don't know actually the average in Spain, but I know more people who are taller than that than shorter.. It is just that when you were a child didn't exist the Petit Suisse
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Old 02-17-2011, 06:51 AM   #66
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
... I'm thinking that we are an exception thanks to our great teacher, ...
What do you mean with exception here?
I don't understand?

Quote:
... we are very lucky.
I hope, you are lucky with your teacher?
But what has this to do with my answer?

Maybe meeting people, making friends and spending time together also outside the dojo ist something you expect or you are looking for when doing aikido? And maybe your teachers gives you that?

Maybe you don't imagine that other people are looking for something different when doing aikido?

Our dojo now exists for nearly 29 years. And some of us have accompanied nearly 20 of them. Without a special teacher. But just coming together, practicing, learning, going to seminars ... But not meeting often outside the dojo.
Just practicing together. ...
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:02 AM   #67
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

We are also practicing together, our teacher is there since aprox 15 years and some of the nidan are with him from beginning. Exception because we learn a lot, because every class is a great one, because this saturday we'll have an open free aikido meeting, because we travel together, because we celebrate every birthday together, because we always have a Christmas dinner together, because when the nidan got their grade they made a barbeque and so on... I don't think there are many dojos like that...
And the most important our teacher can deal with everybody of us and don't let anybody forget his humility inside the dojo...
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Old 02-17-2011, 07:18 AM   #68
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
It is just that when you were a child didn't exist the Petit Suisse
I'm not 160 years old.

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Old 02-17-2011, 07:22 AM   #69
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Then if it also existed in Galizia, but you didn't get it as child, otherwise you'd be a bit taller
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:44 AM   #70
Diana Frese
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Back in NY TK Lee was kind of the hospitality director, (second only to Sensei ) He liked Japanese food, but he said if we were really hungry we should go to Chinatown. If he liked the restaurant he would just say, eleven people, ten dishes and they would bring whatever the chef sent and it was very good.

Lee always kidded around about being Chinese, he was proud of it but had a sense of humor. He gave everyone a set of chopsticks and said if you don't reach, you starve.

One day the Central New York dojo showed up and Lee wasn't there. I had some shrimp and stuff in my six floor walkup in Little Italy (near Chinatown) I was having a little dinner for my friend Valerie and her friend and was planning to make tempura. (Also Lee's recipe, to not forget to put ice in the water when you make the batter) On Sunday. This was Saturday. I invited the Syracuse dojo and it was great fun, and they validated my cooking.

For Valerie and her friend, I just re-bought and had the Sunday dinner as planned, but out of the blue that was some dojo party with people I had never met before on Saturday. Ariff still teases my former student from my Stamford Y dojo at the summer camps that her former teacher fed his students.

I'm still crazy about the Aikido techniques years later, though I rarely get to practice, but events like that are unforgettable and build great friendships.
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Old 02-17-2011, 08:52 AM   #71
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Thanks Diana for sharing that with us. In our dojo it is the same, I always have to take photos and then they are all waiting to put them in facebook and in my blog. As aikido is not popular and never is in the newspaper, they are all asking if I already put everything in the blog so they can show it to their friends who doesn't do aikido.
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:40 AM   #72
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Customs in the different countries

So the "social activities" seem to be a very important part of what you want to get ouf of doing aikido?
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Old 02-18-2011, 02:54 AM   #73
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Carsten, I do aikido to relax after working the whole day in my job and home, so beside I train my body and relax my mind I like to enjoy what I'm doing. So we train very hard but always have something to laugh and afterwards we share something more. The success of people staying in the dojo and more people coming and registere and stay (in our island we are now the dojo with the most aikidokas) shows you that it is a good thing.
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Old 02-18-2011, 03:55 AM   #74
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
... that it is a good thing.
I don't question this!

It obviously seems to be the very right and good thing for you and for a lot of other persons. And I think it to be very important to find the places in life which are "right" or "good" for oneself.

I just asked because this aspect never has been important to me. And has not for the most people I trained with.
Coming together not only for practice but also in our spare time or leisure time was nearly never the aim of the members of those dojo or clubs where I practiced.
Sometimes it "just happens". But coming together in our leisure time is not part of our "feeling" or our self-conception.

Maybe this wouldn't fit for you. For us it works very good.
(... also the biggest place for aikido in our small town ... Even with our different concept. )
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Old 02-18-2011, 04:06 AM   #75
carina reinhardt
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Re: Customs in the different countries

Yes Carsten, when I began to train in that dojo, it was not my aim, I just liked to continue with my aikidotraining, and step by step all this good things happened.
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