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Old 02-11-2011, 09:49 AM   #76
Toby Threadgill
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
He who talks about honour and budo should act it and not allow the complaining mind based on fears and doubts and sometimes even jealousies any expression at all. Such is my view. Live it or don't mention honour and integrity or else we are ourselves a lie, an empty barrel making lots of noise.
Mr Graham,

I got a good chuckle out of your post this morning. What an out of place platitude.

Sometimes calling a spade a spade is in order. Somethings are pretty black and white. Tenyu came here to proclaim his expertise among a crowd that includes some rather urbane budoka, he was not chased down by thugs.

Me thinks you should reconsider your aiki induced casuistry lest you end up too far down the rabbit hole.

"Tut, tut, child! Everything's got a moral, if only you can find it." - The Duchess

Toby Threadgill / TSYR

Last edited by Toby Threadgill : 02-11-2011 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 02-11-2011, 09:59 AM   #77
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
When people who have very high opinions of themselves but are terrified of examining themselves critically are fed a lot of comfy cotton-candy feedback, and encouraged to not look at that scary old face in the mirror, you can sometimes get a good politician or stage performer, but you never ever get a good martial artist.
For sure, however we should also consider if everyone who is passing juzguement about Tenyu (positive or negative, it really doesn't matter) have deeply examined themselves. Are we using with him the same standards we use for ourselves? Are we sure we are not politicians or stage performers too? Are we bandwagoning against him (or supporting him) because some obscure reason we do not want to address or for reasons we do not dare to make in public?
Quote:
Folks saying things like "oh this is just like O Sensei and Bruce Lee" or "who are we to judge him, leave it up to the courts to decide" should really consider how harmful what you are saying could be to somebody like Tenyu whose ego is engaged in a running battle with reality.
Then he is as "ego driven" and disconnected of reality as O Sensei or Bruce Lee were when they decided to break the conventions and do what they considered appropriate. Only with time and deep knowledge about both Aikibojutsu and Aikibodo we could tell objectively and aseptically if Tenyu is a genius, a full of it plagiarian or something in the middle.
We don't really know if he is as crazy as he looks and how being a hamoned student of Read Sensei can lead us, even inconsciously, to consider both him and his version of aikibojutsu style worthless.
Quote:
If you are trying to show compassion to the guy, you aren't really doing it by comparing him to Jigoro Kano and helping him quibble around his recent failures of character and integrity. He's got an opportunity to grow here but the sugarcoating is going to work against him.
It is no sugarcoating, is asking for not applying double standards. He has character flaws, lacks integrity, lacks honour… as if in the budo world everyone, including the most respected style founders and masters, is a shining example of virtue, good behaviour and moral integrity.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:13 AM   #78
lbb
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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However that's no reason for charachter assasination by you, me or anyone else for that matter if you want to talk about integrity and honour for doing so means to me you or whoever has been led into saying such.
Graham, I have to say, whenever I read a sentence like the one above, my eyes start to cross. For the life of me, I can't figure out what you are trying to say. Can you please try to break it down into two or three simpler sentences, with one subject and one predicate each, and further explain what you mean by "character assassination"? It would also be helpful if you could provide an example of this alleged "character assassination". If I say that John Wilkes Booth shot Abraham Lincoln, that's not character assassination, that's just the facts.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:19 AM   #79
lbb
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
For sure, however we should also consider if everyone who is passing juzguement about Tenyu (positive or negative, it really doesn't matter) have deeply examined themselves. Are we using with him the same standards we use for ourselves? Are we sure we are not politicians or stage performers too? Are we bandwagoning against him (or supporting him) because some obscure reason we do not want to address or for reasons we do not dare to make in public?
Why are those questions relevant? I didn't come on here claiming to have invented a new style of budo; if I had, I'd expect some scrutiny. When you get up on stage, then you can perhaps being accused of being a "politician" or a "stage performer" -- what's your objective in trying to pin those labels on the audience?
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:28 AM   #80
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Why are those questions relevant? I didn't come on here claiming to have invented a new style of budo; if I had, I'd expect some scrutiny. When you get up on stage, then you can perhaps being accused of being a "politician" or a "stage performer" -- what's your objective in trying to pin those labels on the audience?
Simply adressing Cliff's idea about people who doesn't look critically at themselves don't make good martial artists.

Are we good martial artists (or at least are we trying) or are we not really diferent than those politicians and stage performers? What are we in reality?
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:32 AM   #81
Mark Freeman
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Hi All,

I find some of the questions being raised in my mind by reading this thread might be worth posting for folk to consider.

If a teacher gives knowledge to a student - who does the knowledge belong to?

If a teacher helps a student develop a skill, who's is the skill?

If a student 'steals' the art of his teacher is it his? Isn't this historically a big point in the world of MA.

The questions of honesty and integrity come down to what passed between the student and the teacher and any agreements or promises made in that exchange.

I know in the world of budo we like to think of ourselves as somehow acting out of some higher moral calling than others not engaged in our particular pursuit. But my guess is, that the world of 'budo' has about the same proportion of dishonesty and no integrity as just about any other group you care to mention.

I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, just posing some questions and pondering them myself.

Personally, like everyone else, I have an opinion, and I think the OP was a bit daft to come onto Akiweb and use the platform to market a 'new' artform with a) so little time spent developing it and b) no blessing from his former teacher.

regards

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-11-2011, 10:48 AM   #82
lbb
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Simply adressing Cliff's idea about people who doesn't look critically at themselves don't make good martial artists.
Ok, so, maybe interesting questions in another context, but inappropriately juxtaposed here. Got it.
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:37 AM   #83
Janet Rosen
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

I think the part that just totally flabbergasts me is the OP splashing himself here in the middle of the forums - to those who have suggested perhaps he's another OSensei, my reply is, OSensei was totally dedicated to the development of his art; he may have enjoyed hobnobbing with the elite but he would not have achieved the level he did without putting in the work. Were the OP serious about developing his art, rather than court controversy, why not quietly relocate, work on one's art, gather a group of students, refine one's art.
Should every person who has ever claimed to be the Messiah be accepted at face value simply because (many people believe that) Jesus was therefore there is no reason to exercise critical or ethical judgment regarding other claimants?

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 02-11-2011, 11:41 AM   #84
Janet Rosen
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Graham, you walk a dangerous path suggesting that only a person herself blameless in life ought to have a personal code of ethics she applies to self and others. That would seem to preclude ever saying "Yamei! This is just wrong!" or taking a principled public stand on any side of an issue.

Janet Rosen
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:08 PM   #85
phitruong
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Simply adressing Cliff's idea about people who doesn't look critically at themselves don't make good martial artists.
there are those who looked at themselves only to see greatness; thus, no longer look at themselves.

Jesus came upon a crowd who ready to stone a sinful woman. he stopped the crowd and spoke "lets he who has no sin cast the first stone". a stone sailed out of the crowd. Jesus turned around and said "Mom??!!"
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:10 PM   #86
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Hi All,

I find some of the questions being raised in my mind by reading this thread might be worth posting for folk to consider.

If a teacher gives knowledge to a student - who does the knowledge belong to?
That depends on what the knowledge is and the conditions attached to the giving of it. In the Koryu, knowledge belongs to the Ryu, not to any individual. Even the Headmaster is only the custodian of that knowledge. So, without permission to teach, no one is entitled... the knowledge is still the property of the Ryu until you are certified to teach and given permission to do so. Having an instructor certification isn't enough... you actually need permission.

On the other hand, an art like Aikido is different. Although before the war it wasn't. O-Sensei treated what he did like a koryu in many ways. He only taught a small group of deshi specially selected and didn't show his art publicly. The first public demo of Aikido after the war which was put together by the Nidai Doshu and the leadership at Headquarters was a very big deal precisely because it signaled the end of the art as a private martial practice directly transmitted by the Founder. At that point, much as the folks at Headquarters hate to admit it, the knowledge they were passing on became public domain so to speak.

Tom Read's teachings actually fall into both private and public domain areas. The Aikido he teaches is public domain. It's simply his take on the art and he accepts anyone from any style at his dojo and his seminars with no strings attached. Of course it's always good form to acknowledge where you got something, I always try to. But unless someone is training with him and wishes rank from him, what is given is done so freely with no expectation of any control or influence over what you do with it after you leave.

The Bo work is quite different. It is a unique creation. The entire conceptualization behind the technique is his alone. So with his Bo style, he chose to treat the knowledge more like a koryu. He didn't accept you as a student unless you committed to not teach without permission. He has every right to do this. The art is his and he gets to decide. You can choose to abide by the conditions and train or you can choose not to.

Saotome Sensei did precisely the same thing with his Two Sword. The Two Sword work we do is his unique creation. It isn't really like anyone else's two sword. For many years we only had permission to teach his Two Sword work within our dojos. Even though I taught Aikido all over the place, both within the ASU and at dojos with other affiliations, I couldn't teach the Two Sword work. So, it was a very big deal for me when, ten years ago, I was invited to demo at the first Aiki Expo and Sensei instructed me to do Two Sword. To my knowledge that was the first time it had been shown to a large group of folks from outside the ASU.

So, whereas Saotome Sensei would teach Aikido with every expectation that, whatever he gave you, you were free to take or leave, to go off and make it your own. The Two Sword on the other hand was different. It wasn't given to hit by O-Sensei nor did he get it from some koryu... it was a product of his imagination and his ability to take what he knew from Aikido and apply it in a Two Sword context. That entitled him to put stip[ualtions on what you could do with the knowledge. Just as in Tom Read's Aikibojitsu.

Quote:
If a student 'steals' the art of his teacher is it his? Isn't this historically a big point in the world of MA.
There is a massive and total distinction between the normal process of ryu ha evolution and what we are talking about. It is absolutely true that, new ryu were created when high level practitioners started to have their own ideas about the direction they wanted to take their training. Almost always these folks would already have some certification or other in the ryu. In other words they were advanced students who, in their full maturity had ideas that they wished to pursue that could not be incorporated within the ryu. It was considered disrespectful of ones teacher to change things and still call the art by the same name. So you gave it a new name and took it out into the world.

The issue of an unqualified person doing this was always real. There were numerous instances of people stealing scrolls etc and claiming legitimacy that hey had not earned. But in the old days this tended to take care of itself. You hung out your shingle and folks showed up at he door to check you out. If they beat you up in front of your students, you'd lose your students because no one wanted to train with someone who didn't know what he was doing. Even O-Sensei had to hold his own early on when he first started his own art. He had a number of challenges in the Ueshiba Juku days.

Of course it is considered a bit too crass to do dojo busting these days. Aikido in particular, with no competition (except for the Tomiki folks), has developed a sort of "it's all good" mentality. How many Aikido dojos do you think there's be in your area if the teacher had to be able to hold his or her own with trained martial artists coming through the front door? Maybe 5 - 10% or so of the dojos we actually have?

So, with the case under discussion, we are not talking about someone who mastered a style and now has his own ideas about where he wants to take his training. In a case like that, you'd have someone who had rank and was a functioning senior member of a style when he felt the need to innovate beyond what he'd been taught. Usually this can be accomplished by following certain protocols. Often, it is initiated by the teacher himself when he recognizes that the student is chafing at the boundaries imposed by his particular style. Done properly, it is not necessarily a break but rather a process of growth.

Instead what we have here is a junior practitioner, without certification, who is actually asked to leave a style. The commitment not to teach is doubly binding as. not only did he commit not to teach the style if he left, he wasn't even a certified instructor when he was still training in the style.

I am always staggered by various folks and their own sense of entitlement and self importance. One of my friends had a 4th Kyu student try and take over his dojo. She decided that she knew better how to run classes, she knew better what should be taught. She actually went to him and started telling him how to run the dojo and when he wasn't responsive she attempted to organize opposition to the Chief Instructor behind his back. The teacher is the founder of the school. He put a couple hundred thousand in to the dojo, which is stunning, he's got decades of practice under his belt and the full support of Saotome Sensei, and she felt that she knew better... at 4th Kyu!

There are whole organizations devoted just to those folks whose teachers failed to recognize what incredible talents they are so they left them and started their own things. But they still wanted the facade of legitimacy so they all banded together and provided ersatz ranks and certifications in each others arts. The world sokeship council is a perfect example of this idiocy. But even they usually don't accept a 4th kyu with no dan ranking whatever as a legitimate Founder of a style.

This is just another case of "Mark Tennenhouse" for those of you who remeber that fiasco.

This is not "piling on" or character assassination. This is what happens when you step out and decide to try to be a big deal and start your own style. No one asked this person to post or to seek feedback on what he was doing. But once you put it out there, it's going to get scrutinized. I've posted videos and some folks liked it and others thought it was bullshit. If I was worried about some folks not liking it, I wouldn't have put it out there. What else would one expect to happen? No one is forcing anyone to post... If Tenyu had not posted, this would have remained a matter between himself and his former teacher... Arcada is not the hub of the Aikido universe, or any universe for that matter. We would never even have heard of this except as some story Read Sensei might relate at some potluck for our entertainment.

But once someone announces he has founded his own style and puts it out there, YouTube videos, training history and all, he has essentially asked us to legitimize him by treating him seriously. No one is going to treat him seriously without scrutinizing his claims, which beyond whether he has technical skills, extends to getting a sense of what kind of person he is.

Quote:
The questions of honesty and integrity come down to what passed between the student and the teacher and any agreements or promises made in that exchange.

I know in the world of budo we like to think of ourselves as somehow acting out of some higher moral calling than others not engaged in our particular pursuit. But my guess is, that the world of 'budo' has about the same proportion of dishonesty and no integrity as just about any other group you care to mention.
No question... it may be a bit worse since so many come to martial arts because of some sense of insecurity and inadequacy. If their training doesn't help them heal, they just become messed up folks with martial skills.

Quote:
I'm not directing this at anyone in particular, just posing some questions and pondering them myself.

Personally, like everyone else, I have an opinion, and I think the OP was a bit daft to come onto Akiweb and use the platform to market a 'new' artform with a) so little time spent developing it and b) no blessing from his former teacher.

regards
You wouldn't have very experienced senior teachers posting on this topic if it were just a matter of the individual in question. But this is a forum that is a resource for newbies as well as highly experienced people. Folks actions have a karmic payback that takes care of things in the end so we don't really have to do anything. But the inexperienced folks who come here to learn from those more experienced need to have some guidance. So the senior folks should give their opinions. In some cases those opinions will be largely in agreement and in others there will be little agreement, even amongst the most senior teachers. That's fine because they serve to frame the debate and the newbies can decide whom they agree with.

But these discussions are a complete waste if people don't express their ideas. The whole "it's all good" and "you can't be wrong if you are just sincere" attitude isn't true, in my opinion, and this is a place where those issues get sorted out. Folks who wish to treat twaddle seriously are totally free to do so, but so are the folks that think twaddle is twaddle free to express that too.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:40 PM   #87
Gary David
 
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

You know if I went into a Biker bar out in San Bernardino or Fontana, set up my projector and showed film of my new fighting "style" I would not have to worry about character assassination......................
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Old 02-11-2011, 12:46 PM   #88
phitruong
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
You know if I went into a Biker bar out in San Bernardino or Fontana, set up my projector and showed film of my new fighting "style" I would not have to worry about character assassination......................
depends on your ride. you might not have time to setup the projector. moped isn't a ride!
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:05 PM   #89
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

My point exactly........
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:21 PM   #90
graham christian
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Toby Threadgill wrote: View Post
Mr Graham,

I got a good chuckle out of your post this morning. What an out of place platitude.

Sometimes calling a spade a spade is in order. Somethings are pretty black and white. Tenyu came here to proclaim his expertise among a crowd that includes some rather urbane budoka, he was not chased down by thugs.

Me thinks you should reconsider your aiki induced casuistry lest you end up too far down the rabbit hole.

"Tut, tut, child! Everything's got a moral, if only you can find it." - The Duchess

Toby Threadgill / TSYR
Toby, the chuckles mutual.
Nice spade platitude and some things black or white. Mmm.
So he came to proclaim his expertise, so what? Amongst senior budoka, so what?
He is open to be communicated to, advised, helped maybe, or even disagreed with.
Your response to me is full of what you accuse me of and that includes your end casuistry.
My thoughts were general, it appears you take them personal.
'Alas poor yoric.'
Regards.G.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:25 PM   #91
Toby Threadgill
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Toby, the chuckles mutual.
Nice spade platitude and some things black or white. Mmm.
So he came to proclaim his expertise, so what? Amongst senior budoka, so what?
He is open to be communicated to, advised, helped maybe, or even disagreed with.
Your response to me is full of what you accuse me of and that includes your end casuistry.
My thoughts were general, it appears you take them personal.
'Alas poor yoric.'
Regards.G.
ROFLOL.... "Itachi no saigobe"
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:27 PM   #92
graham christian
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
Graham, you walk a dangerous path suggesting that only a person herself blameless in life ought to have a personal code of ethics she applies to self and others. That would seem to preclude ever saying "Yamei! This is just wrong!" or taking a principled public stand on any side of an issue.
Janet. Sounds spooky. A dangerous path eh?
Never mentioned blameless or that one should be a saint before saying anything.
That does remind me of that religious saying about 'don't judge lest you be judged' though. Or even people in glass houses shouldn't throw stones. Those kind of sayings ask us to look at ourselves as much as we look at another and say about others......... Well you work it out.
So let me clarify. I precluded that if we want to use integrity, honour, as a reason to be against then we must do it in an honourable way.
Say it straight to the person concerned if it's about your view on him in a way that communicates to him.
' Tenyu, I think you are too young and too inexperienced to start your own style.'
'Tenyu, I think it would be best for you if you contact your old teacher first before you set up.'
'Tenyu, I find it quite unacceptable you saying you taught sensei reid anything, could you explain?'
'Tenyu, well done and good luck.'

Direct, they could also have your reasoning attatched. It's not hard to do.
There's no honour in using things like snake oil salesman or thinly disguised blah blah. It's childish and only reflects on the person who says it not on the person being spoken about.
This is what I mean, this is also my humble opinion.
I offered my own personal conclusion which was for him to clear up the disagreement with the teacher concerned first. That would be an honourable, albeit hard thing to do. That's how I see it.
Is this dangerous? Is pointing out the pluses along with the negatives dangerous?
You don't have to look up the word honour and say about this context or that context, you just have to observe honourable men and women of the past and see if they chose sarcasm, tittle tattle, name calling or other childish behaviour.
Using the fact that there are people on this forum of great experience and many many years of training and gaining respect as a back up to attack someone is cowardly in my opinion.(not saying you do this by the way) I only give as an example of arrogance for those people referred to are quite capable of saying what they want to say, if indeed anything. I guarantee if they did it would be considered and not reactionary.
So integrity and honour does matter and is reflected in the way a person communicates also. Is this dangerous? Is this holier than thou? Are you still my friend? (heh, heh.)
Regards.G.
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:38 PM   #93
Keith Larman
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Good, lord, after reading some of these wise, warm and fuzzy posts of infinite understanding and overall goodness I get the urge to start rubbing patchouli into my nipples and chant with positive energy for everyone...

Oh. Sorry, the urge is gone. Back to my normal obviously less evolved self.

Character assassination? Are you kidding? When he either lied intentionally to get the training or broke his promise and started teaching without permission he basically committed character suicide. Then to go on-line and talk about his him teaching his new style with all those qualifications of honest to god kyu ranks? Wow.

That thar be a self-inflicted wound.

Sometimes all you should do is point and say "Hey, dude, that's just wrong." Because it is.

So... Tenyu. Dude. That's just wrong.

Now what the hell is patchouli anyway...

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Old 02-11-2011, 04:04 PM   #94
Toby Threadgill
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

LOL,

Jeeze people. 15 inquiries cluttering up my mailbox? Try using Google.

Toby Threadgill
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:15 PM   #95
Keith Larman
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

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Toby Threadgill wrote: View Post
LOL,

Jeeze people. 15 inquiries cluttering up my mailbox? Try using Google.

Toby Threadgill
Lesser known zen koan -- "What is the sound of a weasel's "silent but deadly"?"

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Old 02-11-2011, 04:33 PM   #96
Mark Freeman
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
You wouldn't have very experienced senior teachers posting on this topic if it were just a matter of the individual in question. But this is a forum that is a resource for newbies as well as highly experienced people. Folks actions have a karmic payback that takes care of things in the end so we don't really have to do anything. But the inexperienced folks who come here to learn from those more experienced need to have some guidance. So the senior folks should give their opinions. In some cases those opinions will be largely in agreement and in others there will be little agreement, even amongst the most senior teachers. That's fine because they serve to frame the debate and the newbies can decide whom they agree with.
Hi George,

I have only clipped a short section of your answers to my rhetorical questions.

I appreciate the full and knowledgable post in response. I happen to be a long serving student of a teacher who has lived his whole 55 year aikido career as a 'budo' man. He removed himself from the wider world of aikido many years ago to follow what he saw as his own true path, which he felt he owed to his own teacher, keeping his own integrity rather than deal with the egocentric politics emanating from abroad.

Plenty of students have gained what they know from him, then decided they know better, then gone off to form their own fiefdoms and mini empires. Some of them openly acknowledge the part he played in their own development and some don't.

The world of MA it seems to me to be slightly stuck in its tradition of thinking it 'owns' knowledge, I can see why it is this way, as knowledge is power so to speak. I personally play by my teachers rules, I only teach with his permission to members of our own federation.I have no problem with that. However, there is nothing to stop me leaving and setting up my own school of 'Markido' and gathering a whole new group of my own students. I have the knowledge and skill it's mine to give.

anyway, thanks again for the time taken. Personally I think Tenyu has shot himself right in the foot doing what he has done, and only time will tell if he has learnt any lessons from the affair. He's not the first and certainly wont be the last to think that he has more to offer than he really has.

regards,

Mark

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:48 PM   #97
Mark Freeman
Dojo: Dartington
Location: Devon
Join Date: Feb 2005
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Now what the hell is patchouli anyway...
Oh Keith, do you not know of patchouli??... it is unique amongst exotic aromas... dark dusty base notes that hint of drumbeats and dancing, sweet sticky middle notes that dilate the nostrils and place warm hands on hips, spicy top notes that lift the imagination like smoke from a peacepipe...it is the smell of hippy heaven

and not everyone likes it.

p.s. why on your nipples?

Success is having what you want. Happiness is wanting what you have.
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:54 PM   #98
kewms
Join Date: Aug 2002
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Oh come on. The OP has put himself out there as not just a teacher, but the creator of a new style. If he can't take a little criticism, he'd better fold his tent and go home now, because it doesn't get any easier.

Katherine
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:15 PM   #99
oisin bourke
 
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

The points brought up in this thread RE integrity and permission to teach propriatry knowledge are excellent, but a lot of Aikido (and Koryu) people are attending seminars given by Dan Harden and Minoru Akuzawa, both of whom are teaching material based on teachings received from Daito Ryu groups. They may not have taken Keppan, but ,to the best of my knowledge, All Daito Ryu groups teach their members on the assumption that they will not teach non-members without permission and/or appropriate certification..

Akuzawa and Dan both have undeniable skills, but, in principle, how is what they are doing different from Tenyu is doing? Of course if they have received the appropriate license/permission, this is a non-issue, but it's probably worth clarifying.

I REALLY don't want to start a flame war and I have no personal "thing" against Dan, Akuzawa or anyone else, honestly, but does no-one else see a dichotomy here? Or am I missing something?
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Old 02-11-2011, 05:24 PM   #100
graham christian
Dojo: golden center aikido-highgate
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Re: New Internal Style of The Wooden Staff

Keith, try this one- Hu shuo ba dao.

Last edited by graham christian : 02-11-2011 at 05:26 PM.
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