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Old 01-17-2011, 09:56 AM   #1
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
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Finland
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Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Onegaishimasu.

Besides of aikiken, i'm interested in other sword arts, more practical ones, something more about the sword techniques than Aikido sword work. For me Kendo is out of count because of it's sportslike attitude, the techniques and execution of this style isn't my thing.

There's no Kenjutsu dojo near by but i still want to learn more about the sword.. As i said in other thread, i have some experiece about sword. but mainly European medieval style and thats totally different cup of tea. I have recieved some teaching from my brother who has +20 years of sports fencing and about ten years of aikido under his belt.

My sensei agreed to give me some private lessons about sword, he's very experienced(almost 30 years and has best aikido i've seen this far.), but only in Aikiken...

I'm interested to learn some form(or several) of Kenjutsu, i know the importance of experienced teacher, but at least i want some more information. If some of you have any interesting videos, books, hints & tips, any advice about how i should more onward etc. Please feel free to help me out.

Technical talk is also welcome, i'm eager to learn more stuff, and i will discuss all i learn with my sensei, even though he's main thing with swords/weapons is aikido related, i trust his judgement about these things.

Tip me out, anything useful goes.

Domo arigato gozaimashita.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:42 AM   #2
lbb
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Besides of aikiken, i'm interested in other sword arts, more practical ones, something more about the sword techniques than Aikido sword work. For me Kendo is out of count because of it's sportslike attitude, the techniques and execution of this style isn't my thing.
If you want a practical martial art, you don't want kenjutsu or any of the koryu. They are designed for use in situations that no longer exist, and thus are highly impractical today. For any scenario where you may imagine that kenjutsu will be useful, there is a more practical solution available.
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Old 01-17-2011, 10:49 AM   #3
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

How am i not surprised you start nit picking about some sentence i say without actually contributing anything useful to the thread?

Darn it, it's like explaining something to little child! I meant something "practical" concerning about sword fighting techniques. Because Aikiken is designed with aikido in mind and not swordfighting itself in main role, i want learn something on the side of aikidos swordwork.

That was my point. i hope everyone gets it now, i have not much better way of putting it.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:02 AM   #4
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

I do understand very well what you mean with "more practical" ways of the sword. And I understand your interest.

Here in Germany the people studying with Christian Tissier learn the basics of a derivate of the Kashima shin ryu. It's a swordwork which is taught by Inaba Minoru. And it's not the originial line of KSR but very interesting.
And there are also people studying Katori shinto ryu.

But ...
... every form of kenjutsu I know indeed needs an experienced teacher. There is no other way. And it simply can not be judged by an aikido practioner who only knows this way of the sword.

Carsten
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:06 AM   #5
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Yea, i wish there would be some kenjutsu dojo near by... Well, search for info continues. Maybe i'll find some dojo not so far away.

Kendo seems to be the most popular sword art in finland as far as i know.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:16 AM   #6
Ellis Amdur
 
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Lari -

Perhaps the first requisite is education. It would be very unfortunate if you searched diligently for lessons in this fascinating area and then came upon what seemed to be real information, only to be mistaken. I would recommend that you go to Koryu books. In particular, order the three volume set of books by the Skoss', Traditions by Dave Lowry and Old School by Amdur. There are other books that are specific to kenjutsu ryu, such as Karl Friday's Legacies of the Sword and Katori Shinto-ryu by Otake Risuke. With this, you will be far more ready to evaluate the validity of what people might offer.
Best
Ellis Amdur

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Old 01-17-2011, 11:21 AM   #7
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Thank you Ellis, i'll check these out.
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Old 01-17-2011, 11:24 AM   #8
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Oh, by the way, if any of you have some links to some good e-books on the subject, i'd be pleased to know, would mean easier access to information... I don't have much money at the moment to invest to books, i have a decent gi, bokken materials etc. to invest in the first place.
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:35 PM   #9
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Yea, i wish there would be some kenjutsu dojo near by... Well, search for info continues. Maybe i'll find some dojo not so far away.

Kendo seems to be the most popular sword art in finland as far as i know.
Dear Lari,
Hello, kendo is not quite the same as Aikiken.Aikiken adopts a different posture.
Aikiken is taught by my teacher Chiba Sensei and sometimes posted on You Tube. Other teachers doing Aikiken include Saito Sensei , Nishio Sensei and for Kashima Sekiya Sensei. Batto Ho is also a useful tool and augments Aikido.
If you require further info send me a private message.
All the best , Joe
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Old 01-17-2011, 02:28 PM   #10
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Hey Joe.

I sent you some pm...

Yea, i know about kendo posture and about the differences. Somehow i dont warm up to the kendo style in general. Too sporty for my taste.

I've made some research about Saito Sensei's stuff, but these others are new to me, will do some searching.
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Old 01-17-2011, 03:41 PM   #11
SeiserL
 
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

IMHO, get off the Aikido forums and ask the Kenjutsu forums. They could probably direct you better.

I have been to many Kenjutsu seminars and currently study Iaido. Always good stuff.

Sometime we just have to train in whatever is available.

Good luck on you hunt and your training.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-17-2011, 04:16 PM   #12
Cliff Judge
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Lari,

A google search in "koryu in finland" turned up this thread on e-budo:

http://www.e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=36399

Seems like a good place to start looking for a teacher. If you are seriously interested in studying the sword you need to be diligent in your research and very patient. Its a long road and there are fake and unverifiable systems out there which can look cooler to the untrained eye that the real stuff.
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Old 01-17-2011, 07:50 PM   #13
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Thanks Lynn and Cliff, your points are appreciated.

And no, Lynn, i'll stay here too.. I'm thinking about possibility of training both maybe. Aikido is and will be my main thing at least for the moment. benn into swordmanship since my childhood and Kenjutsu is something i want to learn if i can.

I already checked and bookmarked "koryo in Finland" for later research, i'll check out e-budo now. Arigato.
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Old 01-20-2011, 05:51 PM   #14
gates
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

This is more of a comment rather than anything else.

I practice Iwama Style Aikido, (Saito style). I have made a couple of trips over to Japan to train as an uchideshi, live in Student with Nemoto Sensei, one of Saito's long term desh, practicing 1-2 hours bukiwaza per day. The 1st Kumitachi is the same in Saito syllabus as it is in the kenjutsu syllabus. As I understand it in general they are quite complimentary. If practiced correctly this style of weapons could be very good for your weapons training in general, and your Aikido too. The syllabus is quite extensive, and even training 1-2 hours per day it will take a good 2-3 weeks to cover it all - properly. There are however a great number of people who claim to know the syllabus but have quite poor form, you will need to find a good teacher, and do lots of precise suburi.

I understand that your instructor learnt under Hikitsuchi-sensei, of the world famous Shingu Dojo, by all accounts Hikitsuchi-sensei was highly skilled with weapons. (Was your instructor a direct student?).

If he happened to teach your instructor some of what he knew and your instructor is willing to teach you then you are a very lucky boy.

If I am ever in Finland I will pop into your dojo and say hello.
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Old 01-24-2011, 10:34 PM   #15
Tim Fong
 
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
If you want a practical martial art, you don't want kenjutsu or any of the koryu. They are designed for use in situations that no longer exist, and thus are highly impractical today. For any scenario where you may imagine that kenjutsu will be useful, there is a more practical solution available.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...60-504083.html

Looked practical to me.
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:08 AM   #16
Mark Kruger
Dojo: Aikido of Eugene
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Quote:
Tim Fong wrote: View Post
Dog bites man isn't news, man bites dog is.

Respectfully,
Mark Kruger
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:58 PM   #17
Cliff Judge
Location: Kawasaki, Kanagawa
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
I practice Iwama Style Aikido, (Saito style). I have made a couple of trips over to Japan to train as an uchideshi, live in Student with Nemoto Sensei, one of Saito's long term desh, practicing 1-2 hours bukiwaza per day. The 1st Kumitachi is the same in Saito syllabus as it is in the kenjutsu syllabus. As I understand it in general they are quite complimentary. If practiced correctly this style of weapons could be very good for your weapons training in general, and your Aikido too. The syllabus is quite extensive, and even training 1-2 hours per day it will take a good 2-3 weeks to cover it all - properly. There are however a great number of people who claim to know the syllabus but have quite poor form, you will need to find a good teacher, and do lots of precise suburi.
Keith, could you clarify what you are talking about here? There is a Nemoto Sensei, he taught you some weapons stuff, could you share some more information about this? I have lately become interested in the various strains of Aikido weapons work outside of my own world and would love to hear more.
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Old 01-26-2011, 03:55 PM   #18
grondahl
Dojo: Stockholms Aikidoklubb
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Re: Any Kenjutsu people here? need advice..

I´m not Keith but since I know several people that have been uchideshi for Nemoto sensei and have been to at least one of his seminars in Sweden: Nemoto is one of the senior japanese students of Morihiro Saito sensei and teaches ordinary (but high quality) Iwama-style bukiwaza. And apparently shuriken from time to time.


On topic: Laari, check out Turku Aikikai (Sugawara Katori). http://www.turkuaikikai.fi/index.php...&id=3&Itemid=3 or Aikiken Dojo in Jyväskylä http://www.aikiken.fi/articles.php?lng=en&pg=95

Last edited by grondahl : 01-26-2011 at 04:00 PM.
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