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Old 01-26-2011, 08:20 AM   #126
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
So I can stand in the floating bridge.
Hi Demetrio - Curious, Why did you say that?
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:24 AM   #127
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Perhaps it's because they've seen the advocates of IP as self-represented in these forums, and their presentation and expressed attitudes towards categories of people here causes doubts about what they'd be like in person, as a teacher.
Hi Mary,
Interestingly enough, they do much better in person...by magnitudes.
- George

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Old 01-26-2011, 08:28 AM   #128
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Interesting point - IMO, most people focus on the spiritual aspect of Kototama. However, If you strip away that spiritual wrapper, what is left is a very physical internal vibration that is set up in the body when the Kototama is recited. Now take your mental intent and direct that vibration to different parts of your body. This does two things: 1) it gives you mental awareness of areas of the body your mind normally does not visit, and 2) the vibration internally exercises those areas you take it to. Just a thought to consider

Greg
I think that you are dead right, as I understand it (without citation), it is the physical vibrations sounded through the human voice that synchronize with brain activity, to form certain states, like alpha brain waves for instance. And if mind and body are mindbody, ie linked (which they surely are) then this brain activity has to have a physical effect on the body. It is also interesting to note that the kanji for ki is derived from steam coming from a pot, (vertical fire/horizontal water?). I may even go so far as to suggest that this point of union between spirit-matter is ameno ukihashi.

I can see that the kototama void-space at the center of a whirlpool, (like a black hole) to which energy expands and concentrates is the one point. Presumably IP is the ability to connect, or absorb the 'opponents' outpouring of ki into your own center. Sure that this is only scratching the surface of what is a deep and intricate topic, it is very interesting.

I attended a Tada seminar in Tokkyo a couple of years back and he had us all doing Kototama (sounding SU) - breath concentration exercises and movements, focusing the energy into hara and circulating it around the body. Some info got lost in translation but in essence you could see him making the connection between kototama and the one point as the center of ki generation in the body.

Enjoy the journey
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:39 AM   #129
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Hi Mary,
Interestingly enough, they do much better in person...by magnitudes.
- George
Hi George,

It's reassuring to hear that that's so in general. Unfortunately, for someone in one of the certain categories, it might not be. Attitudes slip and show up in posts in Aikiweb, and they don't come from thin air, so where do they come from?
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:41 AM   #130
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Keith Gates wrote: View Post
.

I attended a Tada seminar in Tokkyo a couple of years back and he had us all doing Kototama (sounding SU) - breath concentration exercises and movements, focusing the energy into hara and circulating it around the body. Some info got lost in translation but in essence you could see him making the connection between kototama and the one point as the center of ki generation in the body.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:44 AM   #131
Lorel Latorilla
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

All this talk about 'seeking power' and its moralistic implications has made me think a bit.

Before, I thought doing Bujutsu in and of itself would make better people, but I don't see that now. That is, advanced skills in martial arts does not necessarily correspond to high moral character. Look around you, in the world of martial arts--there are snakes, jealousy, arrogance, teachers that deliberately lie and hide from students, and the whole bit of it. A lot of these guys got serious skills too.

In some sense, the knowledge in Bujutsu can make you a better person in the sense that it will give you a sense of awe at the dynamics of nature--but you can say the same about quantum mechanics, or music. All of these things are morally neutral. In the end, how a person is is what will determine how he will use his knowledge in Bujutsu--either for selfless purposes of self-aggrandizement. A person who has the same level of knowledge as Einstein can, for instance, make weapons of mass destruction and sell it to military officials and make big bucks off it. Or a brilliant writer can cloak his writing and keep it from looking propagandistic and use it to persuade people to his ideology.

There are those also that see Bujutsu as vessel, a mechanism to bring about mercy to those who are weak, and justice to those who feed upon the weak (the tyrants, the bullies, etc.) and to do all these as efficiently as possible. It could be as simple as defending yourself, defending your family and friends, or to more specific like stomping through the doors of a tyrant and punching him in the throat and ending a 20 year reign of terrible oppression.

I can see why some people would question the 'search for internal power' as there are possible Faustian consequences. But power, in and of itself, is morally neutral as I mentioned above (haven't you guys learned anything from Star Wars??!). Nothing wrong with power at all--in fact, devoid of any power, the ideals of Aikido are merely fluffy idealisms. Harmony sounds nice, but it is a nasty business often brought about through the destruction, the humiliation, and the justice brought to the one who refuses to 'harmonize'--it is impossible for someone like that to willingly 'harmonize' with you. Of course, this nasty business of harmony must be accomplished through Bujutsu, through power and efficiency. You training in tenkan and irimi are exercises to bring about efficiency in achieving your goal--in other words, there is a push for power there.

All the IP guys are saying is that there is a better way to train, a method and a way of movement that is more efficient. Whether that is true or not is tested on the mat, not on the net. However, I think it is misguided to think that people are doing something wrong when they are pursuing power when you yourself are seeking a form of power.

Unless stated otherwise, all wisdom, follies, harshness, malice that may spring up from my writing are attributable only to me.
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:44 AM   #132
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
Hi Demetrio - Curious, Why did you say that?
To see what happens.

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Old 01-26-2011, 08:59 AM   #133
Mike Sigman
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Hi Mary,
Interestingly enough, they do much better in person...by magnitudes.
- George
Ummmmmmm..... I dunno, George. I always see two sides to a story. Go back and look at some of the posts by some high-ranking Aikidoists a few years back who were trying to shut down discussions about internal strength or trying to discount the fact that there was anything they didn't know that was related to Aikido. Would that be "attitude"? How about the lengthy thread on Aikido (trust me, there are worse ones on other forums like rec.martial-arts, etc.) about why people don't like ('hate' was the term used) Aikidoists. The way to avoid all the back-and-forth about attitudes and personalities is to discuss the topic, not make the constant snide references. Period. At least in my opinion. What Aikidoists can do to improve their image in the outside world has got a lot to do with the same topic.

In terms of searching for internal strength (the topic of the thread) the main thing that I've seen which kills most chance of progress is ego and fear of loss of face. The other thing that kills actual progress is what I call "TMI from TMS".... too much information from too many sources. Meaning that most people seldom get their basics right, so they either go nowhere or they go down some limited dead-end. What people need to do is to go find out what internal strength is (not via showy demo's... I mean find out what it is definitively) and decide whether it was worth the effort Ueshiba Sensei put into it or whether a lot of teachers of 'Aikido' today actually do know better than Ueshiba did.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:00 AM   #134
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Keith Gates wrote: View Post
There are some obvious and interesting links between the Kototama Principle and IS. Gleason's kototama publications are on my list, once I have read what I have got.

Keith
i don't know whether there is or not the link between kotatama and IS, since i am not an expert in either one. the point i tried to bring up, is that an person who spent many years practicing kotatama, yet, later in years, went in search for IS in a practitioner who had not (probably) focus on kotatama. one has to pause and wonder and ask why is that?
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:09 AM   #135
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

I really think that a number of people are turned off a) both the tone these discussions often take (manly men doing manly things) and b) the term "internal power" itself.

As a person who is doing a bit ofhis work but certainly is no expert, I'll say that whereas power is a result of this work, I don't see it as the main point fro an Aikido perspective.

If you wish to understand O-Sensei's statements about "I am the Universe" or "I am at the center of the Universe" or "I am standing on the Bridge of Heaven" etc, doing some internal work is the way to do it. The work is about developing a far more sophisticated understanding of how the complex web of connections work in the body on the myo-fascial level and developing some conscious control over them using the intent.

Aikido people spend all their time learning to bring the forces of the attacker into balance with the defender. I would think that pretty much any Aikido person would agree with that. The problem with normal muscle power is that as the source of power for Aikido waza it can be countered by superior muscle power. Yes, good movement and efficient application of forces can be successful, but when the power of the attacker is too much greater than yours. this way of doing things becomes increasingly difficult until you reach the failure point.

Internal work is about bringing your own body into complete balance. Outward energy is in complete balance with receiving energy. The body is given structure, not by muscle tightness, which is how most of us accomplish stability, but by using the ligaments, tendons, and fascia to set up balanced, counter tensions, that support the structure, make it strong but flexible, and allow you to keep your musculature relaxed.

As you start to be able to do some of his, even on a remedial level, technique becomes about moving you, not moving the other guy. Anyone who has had the fortune to work with Ikeda Sensei recently will recognize that this is what he's demonstrating, in fact the flat out states it. Whereas he certainly has more power than he ever had, when you watch him do his Aikido work, he is seldom showing it. Most of what he does is soft, effortless, and requires almost zero effort, other than moving himself.

He does a good job, I think, of showing that this work is a continuum. He'll start quite large and progressively shrink the size of the movement until he gets to the point at which all motive force is internal. The partner runs up and grabs and instantly has his balance broken, at the instant of contact. Unless he has some reason to really uncork, the partner typically takes a lot less beating than in a more conventional way of doing technique i which there is some opposition between what uke wants and what nage wants. This stuff is really about finding ways to give direction to the energy of he connection.

I simply can't envision an Aikido practitioner who wouldn't like to have technique like that if he or she could. This shouldn't be a controversial topic... The way some of the advocates interact with each other and with folks from the Aikido community can put folks off, certainly. But if yo can get past the Presentation to the actual work itself, I can't emphasize enough how helpful it can be to taking ones Aikido to another level, especially for the folks who never had and never will have the strength and power that many of the large, strong males have.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:15 AM   #136
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

That puts it in a nutshell, George.
thanks,
Mary
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:17 AM   #137
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Hi Mary,
Interestingly enough, they do much better in person...by magnitudes.
And I think that's because in person, all the reality filters have to drop and everyone has to deal with pure reality. Intellectual arguments just have to stop when they're physically and immediately shown to be nonsense. And then we can all have an great time together, making real and serious improvements in our lives and our shared art.

I remember, man, I hated Rob John on the internet. But he was very nice in person, very calm and intellectually sharp. And his technique was the kind of thing that would have inspired the old-time guys to call "divine."

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 01-26-2011, 09:23 AM   #138
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Lorel Latorilla wrote: View Post
However, I think it is misguided to think that people are doing something wrong when they are pursuing power when you yourself are seeking a form of power.
And it's pretty funny to hear some people complaining about "attitudes" of other people when they, themselves, constantly dig to find and broadcast some point of contention. Very contentious people, who constantly accuse other people of contentiousness!

Gassho.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 01-26-2011, 09:29 AM   #139
Lorel Latorilla
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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And it's pretty funny to hear some people complaining about "attitudes" of other people when they, themselves, constantly dig to find and broadcast some point of contention. Very contentious people, who constantly accuse other people of contentiousness!

Gassho.

David
Wow, I was actually gonna write that but I felt it was a distraction from the rest of the post. Nice addendum. Ki-communication there, bud!

Unless stated otherwise, all wisdom, follies, harshness, malice that may spring up from my writing are attributable only to me.
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:30 AM   #140
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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David Orange wrote: View Post
And I think that's because in person, all the reality filters have to drop and everyone has to deal with pure reality. Intellectual arguments just have to stop when they're physically and immediately shown to be nonsense. And then we can all have an great time together, making real and serious improvements in our lives and our shared art.

I remember, man, I hated Rob John on the internet. But he was very nice in person, very calm and intellectually sharp. And his technique was the kind of thing that would have inspired the old-time guys to call "divine."

Best to you.

David
I long ago gave up expecting to find decent social skills amongst a group of eccentric martial arts geniuses. Folks who take their skills to such a level have usually done so by being fanatic about their training. Being fanatic about anything is not the road to personal balance and geniuses have historically been terribly difficult people in many ways. All of the folks posting here are far, far more enjoyable when a) they aren't talking to each other and b) you can work with them in person. The internet and written communication does NOT bring out the best in these folks, and their best friends would be the first to admit that, I think.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:34 AM   #141
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

I'm reminded of a discussion thread on a political forum which began when the blog host pointed out that calling your political opponent a "Nazi" or a "socialist" (or both at once!) is not actually an effective way to persuade people to your side and convince them that you're serious.

It very quickly devolved into a debate over whether President Obama is in fact a Nazi, or a socialist, or both.

Assuming that someone who disagrees with you has evil intentions (for however you define "evil") is not usually all that productive. Telling them that they do is even less so.

Katherine
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:38 AM   #142
Mike Sigman
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
The way some of the advocates interact with each other and with folks from the Aikido community can put folks off, certainly. But if yo can get past the Presentation to the actual work itself, I can't emphasize enough how helpful it can be to taking ones Aikido to another level, especially for the folks who never had and never will have the strength and power that many of the large, strong males have.
Again, though, I'd suggest that now you're aware of the fact that there are some body skills focused on "internal strength", you should go back and re-read some of the discussions on AikiWeb a few years back. IIRC, a lot of discussion about "attitude" was also very common, but if you look at the discussions now, you can see that the "attitude" had a lot to do with attacks from "senior" Aikidoists trying to trivialize and personally attack. Not to bring in recriminations, but to point out, for the second time, that there's usually two sides to a discussion about "attitude".

Manly, I don't know about, but my inclination is that *any* folderol that is not directly on topic can lead to problems. Including people with attitudes constantly bringing up 'attitudes'.

There were also some discussions early on about how these kinds of skills could benefit smaller-framed people with less physical strength, but at the time the idea was discarded by "seniors" on AikiWeb. Regardless, I'm glad you agree with the idea. I've thought about that aspect of it for years and a lot of what I do is constantly work in the direction of finding the quickest and most effective way of training those kinds of skills/strengths, with that in mind. I don't envision training those skills in terms of Aikido or any particular martial-art, but I agree that it's an area of great interest.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
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Old 01-26-2011, 09:39 AM   #143
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
Aikido people spend all their time learning to bring the forces of the attacker into balance with the defender.
The problem I see in modern aikido is that it has cut out the "forces of the attacker" and also the necessity of nage's "bringing those forces into balance" because the "attacker" is not attacking but handing his own "forces" into the defender's hands and refusing even to let himself be detached by the defender's irrelevant movements. In other words, the attacker will fall almost regardless of what the defender does.

And people who have trained exclusively in that milieu develop the deep instinct that any real use of any real forces is at best "wrong" and at worst "evil" (or maybe even somehow worse than evil ).

So that kind of person puts out crazy criteria which would eliminate the real Morihei Ueshiba and get him banned from half the dojos in the US!

So you take a passive-aggressive person who disdains real interactions, preaching an idealized morality found nowhere in nature and put them with a person who really wants only the truth no matter how much it blood hurts ( ). Why shouldn't the truth-seeker be just as aggressive in his POV as the passive-aggressive truth-constructor?

There's just bound to be disagreements, arguments and some bad behavior and hurt feelings all around (and the hurt feelings are often among the honest seekers of truth when some cadre of the passive-aggressive tries to enforce the fantasy "truth").

So sad.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 01-26-2011, 10:01 AM   #144
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Phi Truong wrote: View Post
Dan Harden..... who probably sings off-key most of the time and believed misogi involved beer chugging (now i am going to hide from dan).
Well, considering I used to sing and play professionally and I prefer wine or martinis....I just consider it as accurate as some other things I read here about me. So, no need to hide Phi!
Cheers
Dan
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:49 AM   #145
Diana Frese
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

This thread is very popular, and I noticed that something that sparked my interest was picked up again, so I feel the need to
comment. It is, "the floating bridge."

Now it will take me quite some time to read Peter Goldsbury's fascinating explanations of Kojiki, which contain what would be called in anthropology the Japanese creation myths.

I don't have a copy of Sugano Sensei's DVD "between heaven and
earth" but when I can responsibly spend family money to buy it, (I guess even if we don't have a DVD player we could use the regular computer for it)

I think it will be of interest to see what he has to say about the
floating bridge if that is indeed what the title means. I have heard
Aikido described as Ame no Ukihashi, no doubt one of the other direct deshi who said this heard it from O Sensei himself

Anyway, I saw Demetrio's comment way back when balance had been brought up in the thread and used it simply to motivate myself to post a simple comment on my own need to learn to train for better balance. Francis on this month's column validated my concern with attending to whatever physical limitations one may have in order to train and learn further....

Fire and water, someone mentioned. Waiting for the well repair technicians, we have been using water my brothers brought and some from the roof which we collect under the drainpipe and bottle in milk and water containers to save for daily needs. And constantly bringing in firewood to save on fuel and electric costs.

Then my husband mentioned that the snow from the logs had melted onto the hearth and since I insisted on re using hand paper towels would I please go mop it up with some of them.....

Sometimes I wonder about "lessons from nature"....and then
there are those wonderful people who post about the beauty of winter. It warms my heart.

But Demetrio, help me out here. What did you mean by your statement, now that I have given what it means to me?
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:05 AM   #146
Diana Frese
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Following what I call the volleyball approach to life, I'm going to bat it into the air one more time. Regarding "Suuuu -- it symbolizes the origin, Saotome Sensei told us years ago. Then I think it went on to O and then A and then E(y) I (ee) But you will have to check this out for yourselves, those of you who haven't studied this. I just heard of it a couple of times. One time it was connected with the actual technique Irimi Nage. ASU people, help me out here, I just batted the topic into the air one more time for you to take over. I have not seen Saotome Sensei since 1983 due to my aforementioned job changes, marriage, non aikido related injuries and various family obligations financial concerns etc etc

You all on Aiki web have caused the techniques to come alive for me again and I think this time I really will be back to practice, whatever shape I may or may not be in. Thank you so much, I hope at least some of my posts are helpful to strengthen parts of the threads others are interested in as I am.
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:28 AM   #147
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Folks
I had a conversation yesterday with a friend to now lives in Hawaii about this whole subject of what can be taught and what can be learned. His general approach is that all you can get from your teachers is a "Google" type map with a few locations labeled. The journey through that map is yours to take and yours to discover what other locations may be on the map. His comment about individuals like Morihei Ueshiba is that the map has even fewer location clearly defined and one is even more on there own. Even the aspects of the art that are codified into a syllabus are still presented through the perspective of the individual creating it and reflect their vision…a vision that the rest of us individuals can never duplicate in its sameness. Each of us create our own path. It is like Johnnie Cash's sone about building the car from pieces he (in the song) took from the factory one at a time ending up with a 1949, 1950, 1951, 1952…….. car. This is what our art is and it is up to each of us to mold it in to something that is usable. We all need help in this, we need the mechanical help, we need the electrical help, we need to understand how ignition and the lighting works…..repairs skills…all this that can be learned from someone. The tools are out there to be found and they used in a way that is personal to each of us as individuals. What is being put forward here by many when talking to the need of IS training is a another sets of tools that are available if one wants to utilize them. Not necessary, but available. It is my opinion that for most on the main track these tools were not made available even as an option. I don't see this as a failure, just a lost opportunity. Why do I say this….

Much of my time through the early 90's was spent in a pushed training environment. In that time and since I have developed a solid base, movement with that base and my center dropping into the movement, thinking I was leading with that center, and a certain level of awareness that helps understand what may be coming. During that period I took a limited amount of ukemi from a broad spectrum of the big time Aikikai and KI instructors. In the late 70's Koichi Tohei came to our dojo every time he was in southern California. I got my hands on him and even tried to apply techniques to him. I felt him and he had something beyond the general sysllabus. He had a number of tests and checks for some of what we are talking about here, but the details are always what get us and there just was not enough detail in the approach to get you past a starting level. Of all of the of the folks associated with him at the time, and that I had the opportunity to touch, none had the feel he had.

I have grabbed onto a bunch of others folks I ran into around Aikido over the years and of these only a very few let drop something that I felt was outside the normal syllabus and only one of these was Japanese. This was Mitsugi Saotome Sensei who destabilized me during a throw that left me wondering how he had done it when it was clear to me it was not muscle, not perfect placement or position, not just timing or technique. I never figured it out nor got any details in what/how had happened. The only other individual that I have had contact with that has been able to throw me this way has been John Clodig, an Aiki Jujitsu practitioner in the San Diego who studied for some years with Don Angier, the links in part going back through Kenji Yoshida. Kotaro Yoshida and Takeda Sokaku. I have been friends with John for over 30 years, but have only in the past few years have I gotten around to talking about his being able to destabilize on contact. John would throw me without effort or a feeling forced effort on his part. Even when I set up, settling myself into a stabilized frame and structure he threw me without much effort on his part. Only when John slowed way down so I could feel the weight transfer down to my feet did I have an idea what was happening. I didn't know I was on the edge until it was to late and there was nothing I could work against.

Two other Americans who had spent actual face time with Morihei Ueshiba did some things that were outside what I would consider the normal syslabus . One was Terry Dobson, he of the moldy rope. Once when I was setting up to attack Terry during a seminar I couldn't get settled enough to initiate the attack. After a moment he moved a bit and I was free to attack. Don't ask because I don't know. Whatever it was it was not part of the normal syllabus.

During a weeklong camp in the San Francisco area in the 80'a while taking an evening class with Robert Nadeau, who is noted for his interest in good technique and human consciousness development, we were way in the back and started to play around with kotodarma sounds. My friend was training Aikido in San Diego with BJ Carlisle, a Native Hawaiian Kahuna, who had a strong interest at the time in the use of sounds in his Aikido. We had talked about this on the drive up to the camp and the sounds seemed to us to fit into what Robert Nadeau was talking to that evening. As I said we were way in the back of the mat and decided to play with the sound at a barely auditable level. In a short time Robert was back there with us like he had sensed something and was trying to find it….we shutdown and he went back to the front of the class. It just struck me that he caught something on the edge of his awareness that pulled him back to us. Again we just shut down and never said anything.

All of the other named folks I took ukemi from all had great skills, with timing and all included. None of the other instructors who passed through showed anything other than what I would consider the standard technical syllabus, it was to me just good technique, great movement and impeccable timing. All that could be achieved through the basics we were offered and standard training over time. That is not to say they didn't have it, but they were not showing it or teaching it.

What individual like Dan Harden, Minoru Akuzawa, Kenji Ushiro, Mike Sigman, Howard Popkin, and others are offering are exercises to help develop these tools, body skills and the experience of these tools/skills that offer a window into what more is possible. These gentlemen offer this in public locations that allows anyone to come and "check it out" hands on. Individuals like Don Angier, Toby Treadgrill, John Clodig, and others here in the west are offering similar skills sets within their arts in a more private setting. Others like Ellis Amdur are writing about these body skills in their columns and books. Books like the "Transparent Power" by Tatsuo Kimura as a discussion of his Daito-Ryu teacher Yukiyoshi Sagawa skills and experiences point to the possibility that something more exists beyond technical training we have so far been exposed to. None of this tells people they have to do this.

I did take ukemi from another of major Aikikai instructors on more than a few occasions when the group I was part of was in his organization back in the 80's. I spent most of my time trying to keep out of his way so I didn't lose anything. On those times when I crossed weapons with him I could feel him coming, and I continued to get out of his way. I mention this because I have crossed training weapons with Dan and I couldn't feel his movement of the weapon coming. Dan said this is how I do it and here are the exercises that will get you to this point if you work hard enough. Part of what Dan was showing was use of the dantien, an articulated movement of the dantien. Dan also provided experiences and exercises to help with this. Mike Sigman, like Dan offers exercises and experiences that help understand what is going on and what you need to do to get there. The problem is that the solo work is boring and hard to stay with.

Another point here is that I am trying to get to the minimum use of power stuff and I see the display of the overt power, like the heavy hitting and resisting heavy pushes as one end of the spectrum and the most likely visible evidence of the existence of more. Is it easier to accept the possibilities of the all if you can see some part of the whole spectrum.

Long post....sorry for all of this length.....
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:03 PM   #148
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Long post....sorry for all of this length.....
where is the kitchen sink, gary? go back and write some more, you lazy person!
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Old 01-26-2011, 12:29 PM   #149
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
Folks
I had a conversation yesterday with a friend to now lives in Hawaii ...
Wow. Very good.

Thanks!

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-26-2011, 01:19 PM   #150
Budd
 
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Gary Welborn wrote: View Post
The problem is that the solo work is boring and hard to stay with.
This is a big reason why a lot of people don't get very far. Or just do a little bit and they they have it well enough to incorporate and then they are just "doing" it . . without actually developing tangible skills.

You really do have to transform your body from how it fundamentally moves to get the discrete skillset. Some arts have(had) that as part of the foundational practice. Maybe some will again in the future.
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