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Old 01-25-2011, 07:24 AM   #76
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
For those who find the pursuit of power worrisome, the kind of power you describe is at least as fraught with danger as the muscular kind, and probably more so.
Well do you want a car that can't accelerate? Do you want a kitchen sprayer that puts out a trickle of water? Do you want a computer that takes ten minutes to let you type a sentence?

Enough is enough, but too little is just too little.

We're talking about being able to do whatever work needs to be done with as little expenditure of energy as possible.

Do you think we should always have to struggle when he encounter someone with great strength? I thought aikido was specifically supposed to eliminate that. And IS is how it eliminates it.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:28 AM   #77
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying that there is no connection between personal character and the ability to develop that kind of power: it is entirely possible to have a "Darth Vader" of internal power, and many people are wary of the pursuit of power in any form.
George Ledyard gave an example of a guy who certainly misused his aikido power. Maybe aikido itself should never have been revealed to the public?

Many people think that any kind of martial arts training at all is motivated by the desire to make oneself a walking weapon. Would that be true?

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 07:54 AM   #78
gates
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Many people think that any kind of martial arts training at all is motivated by the desire to make oneself a walking weapon. Would that be true?
Fine to be a sharp blade but;
"a good sword stays in its saya"

Nothings puts it better than this true story of an Aikido combat encounter, which I am sure many of you are familiar with.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NA08q...eature=related

Last edited by gates : 01-25-2011 at 08:09 AM.

Enjoy the journey
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Old 01-25-2011, 09:50 AM   #79
Budd
 
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I'm not trying to sell it...you really can't, they have to do the work. It is after all just more hard work!!. But, it sells itself because many martial artists see the practical and pragmatic use in whatever their work is.
I think this is pretty key. It's the people searching and chasing and obsessing in "this stuff" that are going to get somewhere with it. Dan, or others, you may have different experiences - but I see it as such a deep subject requiring vast mental and physical commitment that the casual customer may not really be suited to this study?

Asking others at this point - especially those trying to teach this in their schools. Is it an additional series of exercises as an add on? Has it foundationally changed how you're looking at aikido?

I actually liked very much George Ledyard's post about how he would do things - spending the time to do the foundational work before worrying about waza - is anyone else trying this? I think that's going to be something of the breaking point for mainstream aikido to get to a place where "this stuff" is truly integrated - because I can also see it being a commercial axe. If dojo membership is already declining, or you aren't relying on income generated from the joint - you may have more wiggle room.

Some close peeps that are also into this stuff and I have a similar mindset in how we'd do it - in that there would be the general "this is fun we grab each other and fall down" activity to keep the lights on in a school. Then the "by invite only" goup that does the "work" part to really build the necessary foundational stuffs - moves onto hard sparring (and light sparring to re-work fundamental applications), crosstrains other arts, etc.

Anyhoo, please continue.
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:11 AM   #80
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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David Orange wrote: View Post
George Ledyard gave an example of a guy who certainly misused his aikido power. Maybe aikido itself should never have been revealed to the public?
Maybe aikido was stripped of power to avoid examples like this one told by Ledyard being more common and causing more damage than a injured shoulder.

This way you can make it widely available while the number of the fatalities caused by powerful uncontrolled practitioneers is kept at an acceptable minimum.

Sell guns to the people, but the right to bear arms doesn't include having a fully functional Abrams tank in your lawn even if you can afford it.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 01-25-2011 at 10:12 AM. Reason: typo

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Old 01-25-2011, 10:30 AM   #81
kewms
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Well do you want a car that can't accelerate? Do you want a kitchen sprayer that puts out a trickle of water? Do you want a computer that takes ten minutes to let you type a sentence?
No, no, and no, but I don't need a Ferrari, a fire hose, or a supercomputer, either.

Balance in all things. I wouldn't think that would be such a radical idea among martial artists.

Katherine
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:42 AM   #82
DH
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
I think this is pretty key. It's the people searching and chasing and obsessing in "this stuff" that are going to get somewhere with it. Dan, or others, you may have different experiences - but I see it as such a deep subject requiring vast mental and physical commitment that the casual customer may not really be suited to this study?

Asking others at this point - especially those trying to teach this in their schools. Is it an additional series of exercises as an add on? Has it foundationally changed how you're looking at aikido?
Some close peeps that are also into this stuff and I have a similar mindset in how we'd do it - in that there would be the general "this is fun we grab each other and fall down" activity to keep the lights on in a school. Then the "by invite only" goup that does the "work" part to really build the necessary foundational stuffs - moves onto hard sparring (and light sparring to re-work fundamental applications), crosstrains other arts, etc.

Anyhoo, please continue.
Six schools that I am aware of do exactly that; they have separate days for training this. And they also incorporate training it in regular class. I think it is too soon to tell who is going to follow through,and who might excel etc. Some -with self serving, competitive motivations- are critiquing and commenting on their progress. I think that is counterproductive to the debate at such an early stage.

There is a lot being talked about in separating this work from external movement and technique which is fine...yet make no mistake, every source in the martial arts outlines the necessity for tackling that difficult step of getting it into external movement. In fact the use of it ...in...movement is yet another milestone...still outside of waza. While that in and of itself is martially effective (something BTW, which has never been covered here either) it is that work that many find intriguing and revealing while they are slowly progressing. Itis difficult and you can default back to bad habits...it's a mindfield.
All the best
Dan
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Old 01-25-2011, 10:58 AM   #83
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Maybe aikido was stripped of power to avoid examples like this one told by Ledyard being more common and causing more damage than a injured shoulder.

This way you can make it widely available while the number of the fatalities caused by powerful uncontrolled practitioneers is kept at an acceptable minimum.
And I don't think the influence of Minoru Mochizuki and Kenji Tomiki can be overlooked in that process. I think O Sensei was really impressed with Jigoro Kano's work in judo--to create a powerful art that would nonetheless be safe for those who were not full-time martial artists. He did, after all, incorporate the dan system that Kano invented. And I think we can see that the art was made generally safer in the process.

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Sell guns to the people, but the right to bear arms doesn't include having a fully functional Abrams tank in your lawn even if you can afford it.
Over here, we can get almost anything. And what law-abiding citizens can't get, criminals can go crazy with.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:08 AM   #84
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
No, no, and no, but I don't need a Ferrari, a fire hose, or a supercomputer, either.
I don't need a Ferrari, either. But you do need enough power for the task at hand, don't you? I hate SUVs but I can understand that some people have a legitimate need for them. And when the firemen come to put out your fire, you want them to have plenty of water pressure, don't you? If you're a genetic scientist, you might need a super computer, mightn't you?

And if someone is coming to help you fend off an attacker, you want them to be at least strong enough to stop him (or her) don't you?

Or maybe there's some way to make sure that people with bad intentions can't get more strength. Then no one would need to have unlimited ability to stop them as necessary.

How do you determine where we should stop improving our abilities and increasing our capacities? In martial arts, greater strength is nothing more than greater capacity. Why imagine that there's some universal "enough" that no one should want to exceed?

Likewise, is there a limit to how "smart" we should be? How tall we should be? How much money we should have? How is strength any different? No one tells an oak tree "You're strong enough. Stop getting strong." It's just natural to develop oneself as far as possible.

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Balance in all things. I wouldn't think that would be such a radical idea among martial artists.
It's not. In fact, that's the essence of most of this internal strength training--tuning our bodies for unshakable balance in six directions. Or should we also leave ourselves to be unbalanced to a certain degree, just so we don't carry it too far?

Can't quite see why you feel that there should be a limit to human capacities.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:16 AM   #85
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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David Orange wrote: View Post
Over here, we can get almost anything. And what law-abiding citizens can't get, criminals can go crazy with.
Over there today is not exactly all around the world 40-50 years ago when aikido started to spread outside Japan.

BTW, have you noticed any differences between aikido pioneers in USA and in their counterparts in Europe?

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Old 01-25-2011, 11:28 AM   #86
DH
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
No, no, and no, but I don't need a Ferrari, a fire hose, or a supercomputer, either.
Balance in all things. I wouldn't think that would be such a radical idea among martial artists.

Katherine
I see your point.
At some point there has to be an ackowledgment of what martial arts are. Power, as well as aiki or connection and control is the goal of the martial arts.Even were one to think he can defeat an opponent without hurting them.. then the requirements above apply even more so.
Anything else ..while it may be fine...just isn't martial arts.
I think the real dilemma and challenge to the spiritual and to the personal growth is to have power and not wield it. This is a challenge not just for traditional martial artists, it applies to MMA, it applies to Power lifters, anyone, who has power,and or skill above the norm.
I think that legacy played out many times in stories of martial artists who were undefeatable and took a look at themselves and evaluated what they wanted. I think Ueshiba while looking for a better way...never mistook the fact that mercy belonged to the victor. It was he who said before before Rob Watson that he exerts his will on others. If we do not understand that, that is the cornerstone of aiki....we will never have aiki, instead we will be owned by the will of others. It is our control of our own energy, that we can manage the force of others to not harm us. Meaning?
You made a choice to control their violence toward you. thus exerting your will on theirs. Otherwise all we have done is just get beat up or controlled.
Just say'n
Dan
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:36 AM   #87
kewms
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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David Orange wrote: View Post
How do you determine where we should stop improving our abilities and increasing our capacities? In martial arts, greater strength is nothing more than greater capacity. Why imagine that there's some universal "enough" that no one should want to exceed?
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything of the sort.

It's simply that all training has costs as well as benefits. All power brings with it responsibility. Not everyone seems to think about that side of the equation.

Katherine
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:48 AM   #88
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

I think that many folks still don't quite understand what this training is all about. This isn't anything that interferes with anything an Aikido practitioner or instructor is currently doing. It's just a way to do it better. It's trans style. You can do your Aikido techniques with any outer form you want... but the content will be much greater.

Also, everyone needs to realize that, in these discussions, we are getting to listen to a couple of total type-A, super perfectionist personalities who have taken this subset of skills to an extremely high degree. I think a lot of folks get intimidated by the tone of these discussions which often sound like, if I don't take this work up to some super high level I am a failure as a human being. That's like saying that your Aikido isn't worth doing unless you can be an 8th Dan.

I have done only a bit of this training, most of it second hand, a bit directly with these guys... certainly not every day. Usually a few times a week as exercises in isolation and the rest is simply within the context of my normal practice. Even the little bit I have done has transformed my Aikido. Even a little of this work helps a lot. Then if you find you want to take it out to some amazing degree, like anything else, that will take a lot of focus and work.

And the debates between some of the folks who are teaching this stuff? For most of us, I think it is entirely irrelevant. Worrying about who is better and which one of these folks one should train with? Well, for most of us, that's like worrying whether I should train with the guy who won the Gold Medal or the Silver Medal at the Olympics when I am ranked 150th in the world...

I put my efforts behind the guy who is moist supportive of my work and even who it's most fun training with because content wise these guys all have the goods. Folks can make their own decisions about that.

This is not mysterious work... it's no where near as esoteric as some stuff you'd see in Systema for instance. It's a retooling of your understanding of how your body works. It's a reprogramming of how ones body deals with force. It's fascinating because for most of us, the various connections that are possible within the body were simply below the radar. The teacher gives you some relatively simple instructions, mostly just visualization on some level, and suddenly you do feel a connection between your thumb on your right side and your left heel (I probably have that wrong but you get the idea). It's really, really cool stuff...

I think these discussions get way to heavy sometimes and scare people off. They think that a new approach negates what they have been doing, rather than simply enhancing it, and the whole thing sounds heavy and serious, when in fact, it is really quite fun and exciting. Sure, it takes some work. Yes, you get more effect if you put up with the burn longer when you are holding your arms up. But on the whole, it's really interesting and healthy. I find that most of it is more mentally exhausting than physically so. It takes a lot of concentration, at least at the beginning. But it's really great stuff. And especially for those folks out there who have always been sort of second class citizens because they simply didn't have the plain physical strength to deal with the big bruisers, this stuff is the cat's meow.

It's not a question of why would you seek internal power or internal skills as an Aikido practitioner. It's why wouldn't you want to? It's great stuff, fascinating, can keep you interested for years, will make you aware of your body on a level you never thought possible, and it only makes whatever kind of Aikido you want to do better. Seems like a no brainer to me... Pay no attention to all the rest of the yadda yadda yadda... it's of no import.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
Bellevue, WA
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Old 01-25-2011, 11:56 AM   #89
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said anything of the sort.

It's simply that all training has costs as well as benefits. All power brings with it responsibility. Not everyone seems to think about that side of the equation.
Well, it seems you're putting words in the mouths and motivations in the minds of everyone who's doing IP. The tone of your posts indicates that you believe that there is a reasonable limit to how much power anyone should want or it reflects evil intent.

If you don't mean to come across that way, I'd encourage you to review what you're posting.

It's not wrong to want greater power, especially if it's only because you want to be the best you can be. Also, someone threw out the phrase "wanting to be the strongest person on the planet" or something like that. It's really a distortion of the motivations and thinking of internal artists.

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:07 PM   #90
Budd
 
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Six schools that I am aware of do exactly that; they have separate days for training this. And they also incorporate training it in regular class. I think it is too soon to tell who is going to follow through,and who might excel etc. Some -with self serving, competitive motivations- are critiquing and commenting on their progress. I think that is counterproductive to the debate at such an early stage.
Makes sense and I think will just have to be something that's worked out over time. At least they are doing it. I know when I took a stab at it, there was a single day dedicated to just the exercises, with efforts on the "waza" days to incorporate it back in. But then things I was doing then versus things I'm doing now, I'd do differently of course - hindsight 20/20 and all. Oh well, gotta start somewhere.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
There is a lot being talked about in separating this work from external movement and technique which is fine...yet make no mistake, every source in the martial arts outlines the necessity for tackling that difficult step of getting it into external movement. In fact the use of it ...in...movement is yet another milestone...still outside of waza. While that in and of itself is martially effective (something BTW, which has never been covered here either) it is that work that many find intriguing and revealing while they are slowly progressing. Itis difficult and you can default back to bad habits...it's a mindfield.
All the best
Dan
Which is partly the rub, right? Where's the sweet spot in doing the foundational work before tackling the integration back into external movement. As you say, the traditional arts all do (or should) address this in some way. The use of it in movement . . I keep refining what that means as I figure more things out . . then try it out with the guys at the gym (some experiments are more painful than others, but the harder learned lessons tend to stick).

I think aikido is trickier . . because the "in movement" portion - unless the teacher is already aware of all the facets being worked on - can easily derail the good efforts being made because of their "interpretation" (stylistic, aesthetic, practical, etc.) based on a limited-information understanding. Just like I keep questioning things that "work" as well as the things that "don't". It is a minefield (and mindfield, even) and I don't have answers, just shared frustrations and the equivalent of sore-feet from the path being trodden.

So I am very curious about others' "how's it working, how's it going?" explorations (assuming past the initial question in thread of "why?" - that being answered and now they've moved onto "how?"). I don't think there's shame in admitting when you're a rank beginner in something - versus have taken some baby steps on the path (example, I am gonna try fencing, I did Japanese weapons, which may help or hurt, but I'm a no-nothing noob, no two ways about it, I can't just assume that they will apply). What's going to be more important over time I think is the progress you make over time based on the efforts you put into it.
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:24 PM   #91
DH
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Let's all step back a bit about motivations that may be negative. Most MA and MMA people I have met run the gamut from young and old, blue and white collar, hobbyist or professionals and are not in it to personally be the toughest person in the world.
What if we look at power in a different way.
Central balance
What if I were to say that there was a way for you to train to make you this stretchy gumby unmovable object. What if anyone who contacts you get their balance interrupted and they become part of you and your choice of where to move them?
What if you can move yourself while retaining all those qualities and your movement moves them?
What if there was some nifty things you could do to people because of the way your body was connected?
What if there were ways to make aiki happen all the way out to the limbs, in the arms and legs...like kokyu ho or aiki age from the back of your knee, or kuzushi on contact?
What if you could absorb their efforts to throw you and it helped them throw themselves?
What if all of the above applied to weapons as well?

No where in the above did I discuss hitting, kicking, or throwing them. So the use of power in the above is all defensive.
Make sense?
Cheers
Dan.
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Old 01-25-2011, 12:32 PM   #92
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
No, no, and no, but I don't need a Ferrari, a fire hose, or a supercomputer, either.

Balance in all things. I wouldn't think that would be such a radical idea among martial artists.

Katherine
i need a ferrari. how do you expect me to pick up interesting women without one? can't do it by declaring meself an internal power master. that sort of pickup line just won't work (i tried). and i absolutely need the fire hose, because the dirt on my body just won't come off with less water pressure. and of course, a super computer is a must to be able to handle the various shear model that eric mead threw out.
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:14 PM   #93
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I think that many folks still don't quite understand what this training is all about. This isn't anything that interferes with anything an Aikido practitioner or instructor is currently doing. It's just a way to do it better. It's trans style. You can do your Aikido techniques with any outer form you want... but the content will be much greater.

Also, everyone needs to realize that, in these discussions, we are getting to listen to a couple of total type-A, super perfectionist personalities who have taken this subset of skills to an extremely high degree. I think a lot of folks get intimidated by the tone of these discussions which often sound like, if I don't take this work up to some super high level I am a failure as a human being. That's like saying that your Aikido isn't worth doing unless you can be an 8th Dan.

I have done only a bit of this training, most of it second hand, a bit directly with these guys... certainly not every day. Usually a few times a week as exercises in isolation and the rest is simply within the context of my normal practice. Even the little bit I have done has transformed my Aikido. Even a little of this work helps a lot. Then if you find you want to take it out to some amazing degree, like anything else, that will take a lot of focus and work.

And the debates between some of the folks who are teaching this stuff? For most of us, I think it is entirely irrelevant. Worrying about who is better and which one of these folks one should train with? Well, for most of us, that's like worrying whether I should train with the guy who won the Gold Medal or the Silver Medal at the Olympics when I am ranked 150th in the world...

I put my efforts behind the guy who is moist supportive of my work and even who it's most fun training with because content wise these guys all have the goods. Folks can make their own decisions about that.

This is not mysterious work... it's no where near as esoteric as some stuff you'd see in Systema for instance. It's a retooling of your understanding of how your body works. It's a reprogramming of how ones body deals with force. It's fascinating because for most of us, the various connections that are possible within the body were simply below the radar. The teacher gives you some relatively simple instructions, mostly just visualization on some level, and suddenly you do feel a connection between your thumb on your right side and your left heel (I probably have that wrong but you get the idea). It's really, really cool stuff...

I think these discussions get way to heavy sometimes and scare people off. They think that a new approach negates what they have been doing, rather than simply enhancing it, and the whole thing sounds heavy and serious, when in fact, it is really quite fun and exciting. Sure, it takes some work. Yes, you get more effect if you put up with the burn longer when you are holding your arms up. But on the whole, it's really interesting and healthy. I find that most of it is more mentally exhausting than physically so. It takes a lot of concentration, at least at the beginning. But it's really great stuff. And especially for those folks out there who have always been sort of second class citizens because they simply didn't have the plain physical strength to deal with the big bruisers, this stuff is the cat's meow.

It's not a question of why would you seek internal power or internal skills as an Aikido practitioner. It's why wouldn't you want to? It's great stuff, fascinating, can keep you interested for years, will make you aware of your body on a level you never thought possible, and it only makes whatever kind of Aikido you want to do better. Seems like a no brainer to me... Pay no attention to all the rest of the yadda yadda yadda... it's of no import.
Yes George quite a lot of yadaayaddayaddayaddayaddayadda..
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:45 PM   #94
Cady Goldfield
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Yes George quite a lot of yadaayaddayaddayaddayaddayadda..
You know, Tony, in all the years I've read George Ledyard's posts, I've never seen anything but honesty and humility in everything he's written. Though I've never met the man, I have read enough of him to see that he is a thoughtful person who doesn't just jot off posts without carefully considering what he has written.

So, to read your casual dismissal of his efforts -- however beyond your attention span they might have ranged -- drives home the realization that you're just being a troll. Please stop it. If you don't have any interest in this type of discussion, just...don't...read this type of thread anymore! It's as simple as that.

Otherwise, some of us might suspect that you 1. enjoy trolling and insulting people OR 2. you really are intrigued by the idea of IP and aiki, and just don't know how to go about asking about it in a civil manner. If the latter, I hear tell that there will be a seminar in London, this May, that would give you an excellent hands-on introduction to this fascinating subject.
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Old 01-25-2011, 02:51 PM   #95
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
Otherwise, some of us might suspect that you 1. enjoy trolling and insulting people OR 2. you really are intrigued by the idea of IP and aiki, and just don't know how to go about asking about it in a civil manner. If the latter, I hear tell that there will be a seminar in London, this May, that would give you an excellent hands-on introduction to this fascinating subject.
I think his motivations are both, Cady.

And to top it off, he's afraid to go and lay hands on Dan or Mike and have to admit he has been seriously wrong. And the truth hurts...bloody hurts!

Best to you.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

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Old 01-25-2011, 03:00 PM   #96
gregstec
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Cady Goldfield wrote: View Post
You know, Tony, in all the years I've read George Ledyard's posts, I've never seen anything but honesty and humility in everything he's written. Though I've never met the man, I have read enough of him to see that he is a thoughtful person who doesn't just jot off posts without carefully considering what he has written.

So, to read your casual dismissal of his efforts -- however beyond your attention span they might have ranged -- drives home the realization that you're just being a troll. Please stop it. If you don't have any interest in this type of discussion, just...don't...read this type of thread anymore! It's as simple as that.

Otherwise, some of us might suspect that you 1. enjoy trolling and insulting people OR 2. you really are intrigued by the idea of IP and aiki, and just don't know how to go about asking about it in a civil manner. If the latter, I hear tell that there will be a seminar in London, this May, that would give you an excellent hands-on introduction to this fascinating subject.
Ditto to Cady about George. I have met the man and he is a true professional in his approach to Aikido as well as his other training and teaching. The casual dismissal of one his most germane posts tells a lot about the character and depth of knowledge of an individual.

Greg
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Old 01-25-2011, 03:21 PM   #97
RED
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Yes George quite a lot of yadaayaddayaddayaddayaddayadda..
Illiteracy is a bitch, ain't it hun?...just kidding.

Ledyard Sensei said a lot, but none of it was nonsense. It warrants an equally concise response IMHO.
Not sure why you'd bother responding actually...??? If that's all you had to add to discussion, why waste the electricity?


But I digress. I've left this conversation alone until now because I think it is out of my pay grade frankly to even pretend to have an opinion on. And from your dismissal of Ledyard Sensei, it might be out of your pay grade as well.
Whether this adds to the discussion or not; I think the cultivation of mutual respect goes hand in hand in the cultivation of good internal training habits. So for the sake of selfishness, let's not act like bitches.

Last edited by RED : 01-25-2011 at 03:24 PM.

MM
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:21 PM   #98
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
Ditto to Cady about George. I have met the man and he is a true professional in his approach to Aikido as well as his other training and teaching. The casual dismissal of one his most germane posts tells a lot about the character and depth of knowledge of an individual.

Greg
In fairness to "Evil-Eye" Tony, he may have been saying that other people were putting out a lot of yada, etc. and he thought George was responding to that.

However, the tone of his posts so far has been so unworthy of serious consideration, let's say, that it's easy to get the impression you and Cady got.

All in all, not very productive of him, but if someone trolls too much, soon everyone sees them as simply a troll.

Best to all.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:23 PM   #99
David Orange
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

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Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
Illiteracy is a bitch, ain't it hun?......let's not act like bitches.

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
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Old 01-25-2011, 04:31 PM   #100
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Aikido training - Why are you searching for internal strength?

Ease up on Tony... he's just a curmudgeon, like a number of my friends. I am sure we'd like each other if we went out for a brew... At least he is straight up about what he thinks, you don't have to guess. He doesn't pull any punches and, maybe because I am from the NE originally, I don't mind that. He wouldn't be happy in Seattle.

George S. Ledyard
Aikido Eastside
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