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Old 01-17-2011, 08:36 PM   #26
Keith Burnikell
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 11
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Quality Training

Jeremy,
forgetting dojo politics for a moment...you mentioned feeling 'outclassed' by your 5th kyu peers at the Northern dojo. Is this just your perception or are the students demonstrably better up North? Let's cut to the chase - In your mind, do you think Northern dojo produces more skilled Aikidoka than the South?

If so, then training at the South would seemingly be a good place to do the basics while the North offers the lure of a regular two hour intensive.
But, you've realized that you can't train up North regularly so you're having to 'settle' for South training from a practical standpoint and get back up North whenever possible

Summarizing:
North - Exciting/Rigorous
South - Convenient/Steady

My attempt at a humorous analogy:
South = Steady Sue
North = Lovely Lucy

Obviously the lure of Lucy was there all along; why else did you go to the North dojo in the first place?!!!!!

One thing that's almost always true: Sue IS gonna find out. Sue's also going to be pretty darned mad. You'll probably end up with no Sue and see very little of Lucy. Work out whether you can be happy with Sue before getting too infatuated with Lucy. I don't think Sue's going to let you be with her and have Lucy too.

In addition, the disciples at Dojo Sue are going to be miffed too. For those that could attend either dojo (and there are some), your wanting to train up North implies they've committed themselves to plain ole Sue. Even worse for you if they've been disparaging about Lucy (which they have).

Staying with Sue might be easier in the long run. Sure, Sue's not nearly as sexy as Lucy. Things'll progress a lot slower with Sue. You're, for sure, going to hear all about the fun you're missing with Lucy and probably have some regrets. Messing around with Lucy has a lot of risks. You might even learn to appreciate life with Sue if boredom doesn't get to you first. The danger for you is that now you've seen Lucy in all her glory you're going to become critical of Sue and eventually be very dissatisfied.

Jeremy, life is really short!
If you were to get married, would you marry Steady Sue or take the risk with Lucy?
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Old 01-18-2011, 05:13 PM   #27
gates
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 193
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Re: Aikido Politics?

It is better to wait 10 years to train with the right instructor than it is to train 10 years with the wrong instructor.

How serious are you about your Aikido?

I'd move house to be with Lucy !!
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Old 01-19-2011, 08:50 AM   #28
OwlMatt
 
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Re: Aikido Politics?

My outlook is different from a lot of people's on this, I think. I train at an ASU dojo, that was formerly a USAF dojo, that was founded by a sensei whose style predated both. I have approximately a half-dozen different instructors, all with different styles, different aikido backgrounds, and different ideas about aikido and aikido training. I come to the dojo for each class and do my best to learn whatever the sensei that day is teaching, sometimes openly (but respectfully) contrasting his/her style with those of our other instructors and sometimes diplomatically keeping my mouth shut.

I've never known aikido any other way, so I don't understand why you can't just train in both places, learn from both places, and do things according to the methods of whichever sensei you have at the time.

Obvously, each sensei has the final word on what you bring into his dojo from other styles and other teachers, and you should respect that, but IMHO, there's no reason not to keep on learning what you can from both places.
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Old 01-19-2011, 03:38 PM   #29
gates
Join Date: Feb 2008
Posts: 193
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Re: Aikido Politics?

Quote:
Matthew Story wrote: View Post
, so I don't understand why you can't just train in both places, learn from both places, and do things according to the methods of whichever sensei you have at the time......
....
there's no reason not to keep on learning what you can from both places.
I believe the problem is that in order to continue to train at both places he may need to:
a. lie (eventually get caught out)
b. upset the southern dojo sensei and deshi

Although perhaps Matthew is right. Be honest, train at both places and the southern dojo people will have to learn to get over it. (or boot you out)

Be a bridge builder !!!
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Old 01-19-2011, 09:53 PM   #30
Randall Lim
Dojo: Tendoryu Aikido Singapore
Location: Singapore
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 94
Singapore
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Re: Quality Training

Quote:
Keith Burnikell wrote: View Post
Jeremy,
forgetting dojo politics for a moment...you mentioned feeling 'outclassed' by your 5th kyu peers at the Northern dojo. Is this just your perception or are the students demonstrably better up North? Let's cut to the chase - In your mind, do you think Northern dojo produces more skilled Aikidoka than the South?

If so, then training at the South would seemingly be a good place to do the basics while the North offers the lure of a regular two hour intensive.
But, you've realized that you can't train up North regularly so you're having to 'settle' for South training from a practical standpoint and get back up North whenever possible

Summarizing:
North - Exciting/Rigorous
South - Convenient/Steady

My attempt at a humorous analogy:
South = Steady Sue
North = Lovely Lucy

Obviously the lure of Lucy was there all along; why else did you go to the North dojo in the first place?!!!!!

One thing that's almost always true: Sue IS gonna find out. Sue's also going to be pretty darned mad. You'll probably end up with no Sue and see very little of Lucy. Work out whether you can be happy with Sue before getting too infatuated with Lucy. I don't think Sue's going to let you be with her and have Lucy too.

In addition, the disciples at Dojo Sue are going to be miffed too. For those that could attend either dojo (and there are some), your wanting to train up North implies they've committed themselves to plain ole Sue. Even worse for you if they've been disparaging about Lucy (which they have).

Staying with Sue might be easier in the long run. Sure, Sue's not nearly as sexy as Lucy. Things'll progress a lot slower with Sue. You're, for sure, going to hear all about the fun you're missing with Lucy and probably have some regrets. Messing around with Lucy has a lot of risks. You might even learn to appreciate life with Sue if boredom doesn't get to you first. The danger for you is that now you've seen Lucy in all her glory you're going to become critical of Sue and eventually be very dissatisfied.

Jeremy, life is really short!
If you were to get married, would you marry Steady Sue or take the risk with Lucy?
Interesting analogy!! Just like: BIG FISH in small pond, or small fish in BIG OCEAN..... The hardest decision to make. But is a decision really needed??
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Old 01-20-2011, 08:00 AM   #31
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 2,761
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Re: Quality Training

Quote:
Randall Lim wrote: View Post
Interesting analogy!! Just like: BIG FISH in small pond, or small fish in BIG OCEAN..... The hardest decision to make. But is a decision really needed??
If one dojo doesn't want you practicing at the other dojo, yeah, I'd say a decision is needed.

It does strike me that OP's knowledge of the conflict is second-hand knowledge (anecdotes told by friends). Not to say that they're not true, but it may be worth carefully gathering some first-hand information. People do change and they do move on, and it may be that the people whose attitudes were responsible for the conflict are no longer a problem. It may be worth asking at the southern school what the view is of training elsewhere. Also, if you do get a negative opinion, who is it coming from? Sometimes seniors can be extra-zealous about something that's really no big deal to sensei.
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Old 01-20-2011, 12:54 PM   #32
OwlMatt
 
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Dojo: Milwaukee Aikikai
Location: Wisconsin
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Re: Aikido Politics?

Quote:
Keith Gates wrote: View Post
I believe the problem is that in order to continue to train at both places he may need to:
a. lie (eventually get caught out)
b. upset the southern dojo sensei and deshi

Although perhaps Matthew is right. Be honest, train at both places and the southern dojo people will have to learn to get over it. (or boot you out)

Be a bridge builder !!!
The way I see it, as long as he is treating the southern dojo with due respect and honoring the southern sensei's authority over what goes on in his dojo, he shouldn't have to lie about anything.

Of course, we've all met the douchebag student who likes to interrupt class and say, "My other sensei does it this way." If you become that guy, then your honesty is infringing on a sensei's authority in his own dojo. But as long as your honesty is tempered with restraint, humility, and proper respect, no one should have anything to complain about.
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