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Old 11-03-2010, 09:17 PM   #1
Petlev
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Treating pain?

I have had pain in different areas of my body as a result of training. First, a few weeks ago my knee hit someone from the side, causing my knee to slightly bend in and I heard popping sounds, but it wasn't too bad. Now it really hurts on the outside of my knee off and on, and hurts during training, especially after sitting in seiza and doing ukemi.

Also, my high rolls aren't perfect yet, so I sometimes land hard on the outside of mu foot, so that began to get sore. So now every time I have to do a high roll, it starts to hurt.

Does anyone know a way to help treat these so that the pain goes away? I realize that my knee hurts as a result of strained ligaments, and unfortunately since it didn't hurt the night it happened, I did not treat it. Is there something I can soak my knee or foot in? Any body have any experience with this?

Thank you

And yes, before the jokes, I am asking if there is anything like in Karate Kid that Mr. Miyagi gives to Daniel-san..lol.
We had something in Kung Fu, but that was a pre-treater to avoid bruising.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:23 PM   #2
lbb
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Pete Lev wrote: View Post
I
Does anyone know a way to help treat these so that the pain goes away?
Step 1: stop doing whatever is causing the injury.

When you've completed step 1, come back and I'll give you step 2.
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Old 11-03-2010, 09:31 PM   #3
Petlev
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Step 1: stop doing whatever is causing the injury.

When you've completed step 1, come back and I'll give you step 2.
Well that would mean stopping Aikido, lol. I want to try and heal in the next week or so. I guess I could avoid ukemi drills for a little bit and see what happens.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:16 PM   #4
dps
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Pete Lev wrote: View Post
Is there something I can soak my knee or foot in? Any body have any experience with this?

Thank you

And yes, before the jokes, I am asking if there is anything like in Karate Kid that Mr. Miyagi gives to Daniel-san..lol.
We had something in Kung Fu, but that was a pre-treater to avoid bruising.
Yes, Yes, soaking the knee works very well.

First do what Mary said.

Second go see a sports medicine doctor and do what he says
.
Third soak your knee in anything you want to for three to six months.

Works every time.

dps
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Old 11-04-2010, 07:08 AM   #5
lbb
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Pete Lev wrote: View Post
Well that would mean stopping Aikido, lol.
If that's true, then why do you think you can heal something that you keep reinjuring? Look at how you're getting hurt, then change whatever it is you're doing that is causing the injury. You can't "heal" an injury if you just reinjure it the next time you go to class.
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:22 AM   #6
Janet Rosen
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Re: Treating pain?

1. None of us knows whether or not you have just had a minor sprain or have actually blown out a ligament - it takes a sports medicine/orthopedist to check it out.
2. The natural history of soft tissue injuries, as laid out by aikidoka/medical examiner Wendy some years ago for us, is that it takes 6 to 8 weeks on the cellular level and there is very little you can do to hasten it.
3. Reinjury resets that clock back to zero AND increases the likelihood of improper healing with scar tissue AND sets you up for a chronic injury.

So... if you are serious about wanting to do aikido long term.... get off the mat short term to heal.... then work w/ your instructor to figure out what you are doing wrong.

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 11-04-2010, 10:24 AM   #7
Janet Rosen
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
Third soak your knee in anything you want to for three to six months.

Like my late uncle, an old small town doctor, used to say when asked "will {insert remedy here} cure my cold":
"Sure, just be sure to use it for two weeks..."

Janet Rosen
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"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:46 PM   #8
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Pete Lev wrote: View Post
I have had pain in different areas of my body as a result of training. .
That is good. Looks like you still are doing some practice. Experiencing pain is indispensable, normal part of aikido practice. If you get up in the morning without pain, it means you are died for sure.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 11-04-2010, 02:44 PM   #9
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Re: Treating pain?

hmmm I ignored a pop in my knee once. A week later it became impossible to ignore. I got real lucky I didn't need surgery and only had to be off the mat for three weeks instead of two months. The foot I'd say you will work it out.The knee OTOH.... don't ignore that. A few days of missed training sure beats a few months or potentially forever.
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Old 11-05-2010, 08:54 AM   #10
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Pete Lev wrote: View Post
I have had pain in different areas of my body as a result of training. First, a few weeks ago my knee hit someone from the side, causing my knee to slightly bend in and I heard popping sounds, but it wasn't too bad. Now it really hurts on the outside of my knee off and on, and hurts during training, especially after sitting in seiza and doing ukemi.

Also, my high rolls aren't perfect yet, so I sometimes land hard on the outside of mu foot, so that began to get sore. So now every time I have to do a high roll, it starts to hurt.

Does anyone know a way to help treat these so that the pain goes away? I realize that my knee hurts as a result of strained ligaments, and unfortunately since it didn't hurt the night it happened, I did not treat it. Is there something I can soak my knee or foot in? Any body have any experience with this?

Thank you

And yes, before the jokes, I am asking if there is anything like in Karate Kid that Mr. Miyagi gives to Daniel-san..lol.
We had something in Kung Fu, but that was a pre-treater to avoid bruising.
Ok, the knee, use an ace bandage and wrap it around the base of the knee. This is amazing. Wear it during practice or working out in general. It will stablize the knee cap and allow the tendons etc time to shrink back into place etc. I did this for both of my knees and they are wonderful now. Also, for both injuries, take it slow and when discomfort appears STOP! This is hard to do but better to take it slow to avoid further injury. I speak this from experience.

Lyle Laizure
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Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 11-05-2010, 09:33 AM   #11
NagaBaba
 
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
hmmm I ignored a pop in my knee once. A week later it became impossible to ignore. I got real lucky I didn't need surgery and only had to be off the mat for three weeks instead of two months. The foot I'd say you will work it out.The knee OTOH.... don't ignore that. A few days of missed training sure beats a few months or potentially forever.
Well, he didn't ask how to heal injury, but how to treat a pain - these are two separate topics

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 11-05-2010, 09:36 AM   #12
Michael Neal
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Re: Treating pain?

Stop, do not train and go see a doctor, a popping sound is more often than not a sign that you tore a ligament and can do considerable more damage by ignoring it.
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Old 11-05-2010, 10:20 AM   #13
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Well, he didn't ask how to heal injury, but how to treat a pain - these are two separate topics
Morphine?

Hey, it works :-D
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Old 11-05-2010, 11:05 AM   #14
C. David Henderson
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Re: Treating pain?

On the bright side, if you train through an injury, you may get to keep it. Then, when you get up in the morning, it'll be there to greet you, like an old friend.

David Henderson
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:12 PM   #15
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
Well, he didn't ask how to heal injury, but how to treat a pain - these are two separate topics
Yes indeed and my point was treat pain seriously. I was not offering advice on healing.

Now he can go on ignoring the pain and then perhaps later he might be asking how to heal an injury. Or he can treat pain seriously and listen to his body before that becomes necessary. His choice.
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Old 11-05-2010, 02:19 PM   #16
Chris Li
 
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
Yes indeed and my point was treat pain seriously. I was not offering advice on healing.

Now he can go on ignoring the pain and then perhaps later he might be asking how to heal an injury. Or he can treat pain seriously and listen to his body before that becomes necessary. His choice.
It really depends upon the pain. If you work out hard regularly (daily or close to daily) then, basically speaking, something always hurts .

Of course, if you work out that often then you usually have a pretty good sense of which kinds of pain are going to be serious enough to have a doctor check them out.

Best,

Chris

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Old 11-05-2010, 02:24 PM   #17
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
It really depends upon the pain. If you work out hard regularly (daily or close to daily) then, basically speaking, something always hurts .

Of course, if you work out that often then you usually have a pretty good sense of which kinds of pain are going to be serious enough to have a doctor check them out.

Best,

Chris
I agree. There is a good pain and a bad pain. After you experiencing it systematically for some time, you can immediately know for sure, whiteout any doctor. What is how you can unify with Universe.

Nagababa

ask for divine protection Ame no Murakumo Kuki Samuhara no Ryuo
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Old 01-17-2011, 01:24 PM   #18
ammelissa
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Re: Treating pain?

I guess within Aikikai there is a very effective healing techniques to eliminate pain instantly.

I once got healing from an Aikido Aikikai Master who helped me enormously.
Believe it or not I'm not even sure exactly what he practiced, that is what I am trying to determine.

He had different colored tubes placed in a wooden box. Depending on what I needed help with he would take the necessary color tube and work on me.
He also worked with a brass bell on a chain. He would pick up the colored tube that I needed and place it on the part of my body that he believed needed to be healed. The chain was wrapped around his wrist and the bell was left hanging as he worked on me along with the colored tube.

I would appreciate if anyone is familiar with this type of healing.

Thanks
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Old 01-17-2011, 08:45 PM   #19
InternalPowerSac
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Re: Treating pain?

Look up zhan zhuan or post standing. I think Andrezj Kalisz of Polish Yiquan has a good book on Scribd. Your basic horse stance when done properly in an "internal" manner will help you heal your knees as will "rolling through the joints" and proper silk reeling or circle walking.

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Old 01-18-2011, 12:36 AM   #20
Michael Varin
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Pete Lev wrote:
I have had pain in different areas of my body as a result of training. First, a few weeks ago my knee hit someone from the side, causing my knee to slightly bend in and I heard popping sounds, but it wasn't too bad. Now it really hurts on the outside of my knee off and on, and hurts during training, especially after sitting in seiza and doing ukemi.

Also, my high rolls aren't perfect yet, so I sometimes land hard on the outside of mu foot, so that began to get sore. So now every time I have to do a high roll, it starts to hurt.

Does anyone know a way to help treat these so that the pain goes away? I realize that my knee hurts as a result of strained ligaments, and unfortunately since it didn't hurt the night it happened, I did not treat it.
Some pain you have to push through if you want to make progress. Other pain you shouldn't.

Stop doing things that hurt you. Allow your body to rest.

Start foam rolling. Learn proper posture and how to restore balance to your muscles, and do exercises that encourage both.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:55 AM   #21
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Szczepan Janczuk wrote: View Post
I agree. There is a good pain and a bad pain. After you experiencing it systematically for some time, you can immediately know for sure, whiteout any doctor. What is how you can unify with Universe.
I would respectfully submit that I agree with Mary and Cherie...And following the thought process of good and bad pain, that you will eventually know the difference between the two, is a very good way to end up with a long term, chronic injury or a potentially severe traumatic injury.

I injured my knees about twenty years ago, following the advice of "good pain vs. bad pain", or no pain no gain. My experience taught me that it's a bad idea...pain is an indication that something is wrong and it needs time to heal. Knees are unforgiving joints and once they are shot, they are shot.

I would suggest that you get off that knee immediately, go see a sports medicine specialist and take solid precaution to protect your body, so you can train long term. that means, muscle strengthening, stretching, etc.

I've talked to many, many martial artists who came from the "old school." Many of whom have had joint replacements and say had they known that training through injuries and hard style would break down their bodies, they would never have done it. With all of the information available to us now, it seems to me that it makes good sense to err on the side of caution.

what good is a tough guy/person with bad joints or chronic injuries? just askin....don't you think that chronic injuries will change the way you execute your techniques? again, just sayin'...

my two bits...again, respectfully submitted.
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Old 01-18-2011, 10:55 AM   #22
GMaroda
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Cherie Cornmesser wrote: View Post
Yes indeed and my point was treat pain seriously. I was not offering advice on healing.

Now he can go on ignoring the pain and then perhaps later he might be asking how to heal an injury. Or he can treat pain seriously and listen to his body before that becomes necessary. His choice.
To quote a wise man, "pain don't hurt." Injury, OTOH, can be excrutiating.
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Old 01-18-2011, 12:10 PM   #23
Basia Halliop
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
I injured my knees about twenty years ago, following the advice of "good pain vs. bad pain", or no pain no gain.
To me those are two completely different statements.

It sounds like you treated bad pain as if it was good pain, and paid the cost.

To me 'good pain' means things like temporarily aching muscles after a heavy work-out, for example. Things that AREN'T a sign of an injury. Or running and being tired and breathing hard but continuing to run. They are signs of exertion and pushing yourself, and may need to be balanced with recovery times after practice to regain (and gain) strength, but they aren't signs of imminent or existing injury.... With those kinds of things, a certain amount of pushing through them eventually makes you stronger (literally and physically, not just psychologically).

Pushing through 'bad' pain causes injuries or makes existing injuries worse. Maybe you choose to do so anyway, but if so it should be with the knowledge that you're likely damaging your body.

From what I see around me, knee pain is one of those ones that it's rarely a good idea to ignore.
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Old 01-18-2011, 01:49 PM   #24
Budogirl
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Re: Treating pain?

Quote:
Basia Halliop wrote: View Post
To me those are two completely different statements.

It sounds like you treated bad pain as if it was good pain, and paid the cost.

To me 'good pain' means things like temporarily aching muscles after a heavy work-out, for example. Things that AREN'T a sign of an injury. Or running and being tired and breathing hard but continuing to run. They are signs of exertion and pushing yourself, and may need to be balanced with recovery times after practice to regain (and gain) strength, but they aren't signs of imminent or existing injury.... With those kinds of things, a certain amount of pushing through them eventually makes you stronger (literally and physically, not just psychologically).

Pushing through 'bad' pain causes injuries or makes existing injuries worse. Maybe you choose to do so anyway, but if so it should be with the knowledge that you're likely damaging your body.

From what I see around me, knee pain is one of those ones that it's rarely a good idea to ignore.
Hey,

You hit the nail on the head.

I had people around me who told me that the "mild" soreness in my knee was a sign of good training, that would go away. it was never excrutiating....Then one day my knee blew up and i went to the sports doctor...

I agree with your statements completely.

I think this gentleman should get medical advice and train accordingly.
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