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Old 01-11-2011, 08:07 AM   #26
lbb
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Too many verbs in that sentence, Demetrio!
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:14 AM   #27
lbb
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
But I think it is useful for every budoka at least to think about the seven virtues, after that.. everyone decides how he will behave himself. But in my humble experience it is always better for oneself to live with that virtues than without them..or against them
Eh. The problem that I always have with stuff like this is the "magic number" aspect. Let's have seven virtues, right, because seven is such a cool number! Then, after a while, people refer to them as the seven virtues, just as you've done above...as if there were no other virtues worth considering. Well, how about forbearance or restraint? How about abstinence? How about frugality, hard work or patience?
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:18 AM   #28
Keith Larman
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Re: The Seven Virtues

The 16 rules...

Quote:
All I really need to know about how to live and what to do and how to be I learned in kindergarten. Wisdom was not at the top of the graduate school mountain, but there in the sand pile at school.

These are the things I learned:

Share everything.

Play fair.

Don't hit people.

Put things back where you found them.

Clean up your own mess.

Don't take things that aren't yours.

Say you're sorry when you hurt somebody.

Wash your hands before you eat.

Flush.

Warm cookies and cold milk are good for you.

Live a balanced life - learn some and think some and draw and paint and sing and dance and play and work every day some.

Take a nap every afternoon.

When you go out in the world, watch out for traffic, hold hands and stick together.

Be aware of wonder. Remember the little seed in the Styrofoam cup: the roots go down and the plant goes up and nobody really knows how or why, but we are all like that.

Goldfish and hamsters and white mice and even the little seed in the Styrofoam cup - they all die. So do we.

And then remember the Dick-and-Jane books and the first word you learned - the biggest word of all - LOOK.
Shamelessly stolen from Robert Fulghum.

Or there was always the One Rule. Behave. Compliments of my mom.

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Old 01-11-2011, 08:23 AM   #29
carina reinhardt
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Eh. The problem that I always have with stuff like this is the "magic number" aspect. Let's have seven virtues, right, because seven is such a cool number! Then, after a while, people refer to them as the seven virtues, just as you've done above...as if there were no other virtues worth considering. Well, how about forbearance or restraint? How about abstinence? How about frugality, hard work or patience?
Mary sometimes there are 5 virtues sometimes 10 or 12, so it was not always 7. As you like..
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Old 01-11-2011, 08:27 AM   #30
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
Thanks Demetrio..
Ok then the bushido code of Nitobe is idealized. But Saotome gives the almost same meaning to the seven pleats of the hakama..
IIRC Saotome Sensei was quoting O Sensei, maybe he was talking on a spiritual level, you know, the level where mundane knowledge does not apply.

Quote:
But I think it is useful for every budoka at least to think about the seven virtues, after that.. everyone decides how he will behave himself. But in my humble experience it is always better for oneself to live with that virtues than without them..or against them
Why these virtues and not others? Aristotelian, Christian, Buddhist... we'll end wearing schoolgirl skirts instead of hakama.

@Mary
Quote:
Too many verbs in that sentence, Demetrio!
Ooops!, sorry. My bad.

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Old 01-11-2011, 08:30 AM   #31
carina reinhardt
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
IIRC Saotome Sensei was quoting O Sensei, maybe he was talking on a spiritual level, you know, the level where mundane knowledge does not apply.

Why these virtues and not others? Aristotelian, Christian, Buddhist... we'll end wearing schoolgirl skirts instead of hakama.

.
Every virtue you like choose one
But the thread is about this 7 virtues...
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Old 01-11-2011, 09:41 AM   #32
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Carina Reinhardt wrote: View Post
But the thread is about this 7 virtues...
Yes, and I wonder if people consider these virtues valuable by themselves* or if the value is given because they were spoused by Japan's warrior class (which is probably not true) and what it implies.

*and we all know what was the effect of adopting these virtues.

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Old 01-11-2011, 10:18 AM   #33
ewolput
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Many years ago, someone came from a mountain and he had a stone with 10 commands. It took me more than 50yrs to get rid of the guilty feelings. ... And now someone is coming with 7 virtues;;;;;how many years it wil take to get rid of the guilty feelings of these 7 virtues.

They are in front of me, because one of my students made a calligraphie of it.
I will try to accept but it will not disturb my aikido training :-)
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Old 01-11-2011, 11:25 AM   #34
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Eddy Wolput wrote: View Post
Many years ago, someone came from a mountain and he had a stone with 10 commands. It took me more than 50yrs to get rid of the guilty feelings. ... And now someone is coming with 7 virtues;;;;;how many years it wil take to get rid of the guilty feelings of these 7 virtues.

They are in front of me, because one of my students made a calligraphie of it.
I will try to accept but it will not disturb my aikido training :-)
I like that Eddy...... freedom at last.......
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:19 PM   #35
phitruong
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Eddy Wolput wrote: View Post
Many years ago, someone came from a mountain and he had a stone with 10 commands. It took me more than 50yrs to get rid of the guilty feelings. ...
eddy, you miscounted. it was 15...ok 10. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TAtRCJIqnk

waiting for mel on the 7th.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:31 PM   #36
carina reinhardt
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Yes, and I wonder if people consider these virtues valuable by themselves* or if the value is given because they were spoused by Japan's warrior class (which is probably not true) and what it implies.

*and we all know what was the effect of adopting these virtues.
Demetrio I can only speak for me and our group, we are a nice community and we sure value the virtues by themselves, we do not see us as samurais or anything alike. But you should know by now if you met Manuel Angel in his holidays, I wonder if he is back today.
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Old 01-11-2011, 12:44 PM   #37
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: The Seven Virtues

I didn't met him. My work schedule doesn't allow me to train.

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Old 01-11-2011, 12:48 PM   #38
carina reinhardt
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Oh I'm sorry, maybe you can train again in the next months
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Old 01-11-2011, 06:57 PM   #39
graham christian
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
We all know the 7 virtues of Budo, represented by the 7 pleats of the hakama.

Virtues:
Jin: benevolence
Gi: honor or justice
Rei: etiquette or politeness
Chi: wisdom
Shin: sincerity
Chu: loyalty
Koh: piety or humanity

I have a personal belief that all these virtues are invaluable "soft skills" in life. While I'm not perfect and fall short of much, I believe that values like these are a good foundation for living a successful and full life. While at times I've been short or rude with people I understand the importance of the virtue Rei. etc. etc.

While I respect these virtues, there might be others who disregard them for whatever reason.
What are your views?
Hi Maggie. Ineresting thread. I didn't know the seven virtues of budo and neither did I know the seven pleats of the Hakama represent them and so on doing a little research found more interesting facts, even how O'Sensei insisted on everyone wearing an Hakama. So thank you for that.

As to views on it, it did get me thinking. I think most people in this world admire those and more in people who follow them. It reminds me of a Jet Li film called 'Hero' ( I think) where there is the arch enemy bad guy japanese and there is also a samurai who is a bit old school. The samurai displays all these virtues and thus is not only an admirable charachter in the movie but also someone others can look up to and hold as a role model.

Although this is a movie I think it applies just the same in life and martial arts and sport etc. In fact I would say that O'Sensei being honoured by that title has as much to do with his continued adherence to those virtues as it has to do with his martal skill.

People at the top of all sports and martial arts etc. who adhere to these and other virtues are admired and even revered far more than the arrogant ones.

I call all negative attitudes like belittling, mocking etc. the way of the lazy mind. Anyone can do it, it's easy. It lacks all of the above.

Regards. G.
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Old 01-11-2011, 07:10 PM   #40
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: The Seven Virtues



Cor blimey...... that bolt of lightning just missed me. Must be my taisabaki........
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:16 AM   #41
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: The Seven Virtues

I call all negative attitudes like belittling, mocking etc. the way of the lazy mind. Anyone can do it, it's easy. It lacks all of the above.

Yes Graham.......

Going by your videos we still haven't seen any randori yet....
Looks more like an afternoon "anyone for tea?" social club.....
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:30 AM   #42
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Re: The Seven Virtues

You !! Mr Tony, """ have the way of the lazy mind"""
Don't forget the chocolate digestive buscuits :-)

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 01-12-2011, 03:57 AM   #43
sorokod
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Graham

More information available in these forums, you can search for example for "7 seven virtues of Budo"

Quote:
I didn't know the seven virtues of budo ...
I find this strange given this post http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...33&postcount=2 . As to "Hero", which character is the "samurai" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film) ? Given the the plot having a samurai in it would be a major anachronism.

thanks

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Old 01-12-2011, 04:13 AM   #44
ewolput
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Re: The Seven Virtues

One of my sensei teached me only "one" thing. Free yourself of that bag on your back full of waste, don't become a robot. Only when you are free, you will become a true martial artist;
Once I asked him, sensei how many ways to do oshi taoshi (ikkyo in aikikai). He said : I don't know, its depend on what is happening.
Depending on many rules will make a robot of you and it kills your creativity.
I respect very much my sensei, but my aikido is mine and is different from his aikido. And his aikido is different from Ueshiba's aikido, and he was a direct student!
The 7 virtues are interesting items but they cannot replace the virtues which my parents teached me.

Right?
No left, .... right.
I said left and not right... right

something like that by John Cleese
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Old 01-12-2011, 07:17 AM   #45
SeiserL
 
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Re: The Seven Virtues

IMHO, we all already know the right things to do, just do them.

Its not virtue, just common sense.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
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Old 01-12-2011, 10:42 AM   #46
graham christian
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
Graham

More information available in these forums, you can search for example for "7 seven virtues of Budo"

I find this strange given this post http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showpo...33&postcount=2 . As to "Hero", which character is the "samurai" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hero_(2002_film) ? Given the the plot having a samurai in it would be a major anachronism.

thanks
Hi David. Please excuse my ignorance. I had read that post and seen the explanation of takemusu leading to seven virtues but hadn't seen it as the seven virtues of budo. Perhaps I should have noted more carefully the next line which said it can be found in bushido.
Secondly you are right again, I have named the wrong film, the one with the samurai who is also a karate master is called I believe the fist of legend.

Regards.G.
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Old 01-12-2011, 12:10 PM   #47
Krystal Locke
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
It's just an idle roomer, Mary :-)
Oh shit, I'm out of practice. Rent! Torn hak, tenant, rent! There's one RIGHT THERE, and I can't find it!

I bow to my master. You have truly gone before.
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Old 01-12-2011, 01:16 PM   #48
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
You !! Mr Tony, """ have the way of the lazy mind"""
Don't forget the chocolate digestive buscuits :-)

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
The ones with nuts in? Or the plain Sensei?
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Old 01-24-2011, 11:33 PM   #49
Budogirl
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Re: The Seven Virtues

Is it possible that westerners are being played for suckers?

just askin...
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