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Old 12-28-2010, 02:28 PM   #51
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 78
Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Onegaishimasu.

I just came back home from my secon class. And damn, i LOVE this stuff! Aikido is already the best thing i've done for a long time.

Just few people again, our sensei did not show up for some unknown reason, three sempai's, me, and two others. I had good time and did some new techniques..

The opening ceremony was a bit different than i expected, some breathing exercises and some Japanese phrase which was totally unknown to me.

We did some movement and posture practice with bo in hand, then some strikes and two different katas. Our sempai didn't mention the names of the movements... After bo practice we did some irimi nage, kaiten nage and some other techniques i dont remember at the moment. We also did some variation of Ikkyo.

I did some more ukemi, all kind of basic stuff. It was really fun and surprisingly not so tough as my first class was.

The sempai who was leading the class actually was surprised how good i did and said it coupe of times. He said my ukemi looks very good for a beginner.

Wheew... my lower back and my shoulders are killing me.

Is the lower back pain because lot of movement comes from hips/waist area? And other question, could somebody give me some advice or a lonf perhaps for some efficient stretches for legs and shoulders?

Funny thing, our kind sempais answered many of my questions but now i have more things i dont know... haha, that usual when one starts to learn new things.

At least some rules are now clear to me, on our dojo people start to wear hakama when reaching 3rd kyu. The sempai said it's good for me to get gi when beginners class starts at january... (damn good actually, i have a nice head start when new beginners come and we will go through all the basics more deeper then.) Yea, and i have to pay my dues when the next beginners class starts, so i dont have to horry with that either.

You know what, all talk here about positive effects of Aikido seem to be true this far. People are nice, behave well, are eager to help, this is extremely effiecient training for overall healt, very enjoyable and quite safe. Our senior students take good care when i'm uke and dont reject training with me because i'm a beginner. I also liked how one of the sempais really used some speed and power when throwing me around, i really got the feel of the technique.
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Old 12-28-2010, 02:53 PM   #52
tim evans
Location: The lake
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Lari one bit of advice since you do play in a band eventually you will learn nikkyo and sankyo wrist locks tap early if you want to preserve your wrists.
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Old 12-28-2010, 03:20 PM   #53
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 78
Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Tim Evans wrote: View Post
Lari one bit of advice since you do play in a band eventually you will learn nikkyo and sankyo wrist locks tap early if you want to preserve your wrists.
Yea, we did those at the forst class... I have to remember this one. Although i have rather strong wrists, 16 years of drumming works wonders on them, but i have to be careful. Thanks for the tip.
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Old 12-30-2010, 10:58 AM   #54
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 78
Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.



Three classes behind now, next one at monday 3. January... And i havent lost my enthusiasm. It seems to get more and more fun every time.

And i've started to learn and remember things. Seiza is now little bit easier, now i can sit for few minutes, not only 45 seconds in one go. Movement is getting easier, i dont have to think so much where my legs are. I can even remember some little technique wihtout much thinking about it.

It was a tough one to have two classes in consecutive days, my neck, legs and back are really telling me i've done something. I wanted to go to todays class too, but i need some time to recover...

Which brings in another question, what would you recommend for recovery days? Some easy streching? Lot of water? Sleep?

My muscles always get really stuck big time after tough practise and recovery takes time... I'd be pleased if you guys would give me some good tips on how to mae recovery days easier.. How long it takes to recovery to become shorter? I know it should get easier, but does it take few months? A year?

Is it usual to Aikido clubs to practice with bo? Jo seems to be the usual "stick" variant in use for weapontraining... In our club they use bo and bokken and AFAIK not much other weapons.
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Old 12-30-2010, 12:04 PM   #55
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

I don't think bo is typical in aikido. Bo is an Okinawan weapon, whereas jo originated in Japan with shindo muso ryu.
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Old 12-30-2010, 01:51 PM   #56
RED
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Bo is very atypical. Jo, bokken and tonto is typically what you find in most traditional Aikido dojo.

I once heard of an Aikido college club that allowed their black belts to practice with nun-chucks and throwing stars..... but they were F#$%ing crazy!!

MM
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:33 PM   #57
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 78
Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Yea, i thought so too... I have searched the net and this forum and nowhere else run into Aikido dojo which is practicing bo techniques.

It seemed that movements and technique is usual Aikido. At least for my inexpecienced eyes.. In those techniques we had some almost karate like thrusts and strikes with Aikido movement/posture and blocking moves. It's hard to say anything more specific, as we only did three different techniques.

I'll keep you guys updated as soon as we have more weapon practice.

Nunchucks? Throwing stars? In Aikido club? Wow, that's really strange... How can one use nunchucks in Aikido? I would like to see that.
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Old 12-30-2010, 02:48 PM   #58
Garth Jones
Dojo: Allegheny Aikido
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 162
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Tom Reed Sensei has developed some very involved kata for the bo staff as well as the jo. Beyond that I don't know of anybody doing much with the bo in aikido.

Back pain - well, that can be caused by all sorts of things. For me, the key has been a steady program of core strengthening exercises - back extensions and various types of crunches. The muscles get stronger and hold the spine in alignment better.

Since you are in the first stages of learning ukemi, I would suggest starting off with some gentle rocking backwards from the floor (the first bit of a back roll). Make sure you lower back stays round and that you go backwards smoothly. Keep your abs tight and this is a good crunch.

Cheers,
Garth
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:30 PM   #59
RED
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 909
United_States
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post

Nunchucks? Throwing stars? In Aikido club? Wow, that's really strange... How can one use nunchucks in Aikido? I would like to see that.
They had personal problems.

MM
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Old 12-30-2010, 03:34 PM   #60
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,239
Spain
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I don't think bo is typical in aikido. Bo is an Okinawan weapon, whereas jo originated in Japan with shindo muso ryu.
Bo is the name Shingu lineage people give to the staff they use. Is not a jo nor a rokushakubo.
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Old 12-30-2010, 04:23 PM   #61
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 78
Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Garth Jones wrote: View Post
Tom Reed Sensei has developed some very involved kata for the bo staff as well as the jo. Beyond that I don't know of anybody doing much with the bo in aikido.

Back pain - well, that can be caused by all sorts of things. For me, the key has been a steady program of core strengthening exercises - back extensions and various types of crunches. The muscles get stronger and hold the spine in alignment better.

Since you are in the first stages of learning ukemi, I would suggest starting off with some gentle rocking backwards from the floor (the first bit of a back roll). Make sure you lower back stays round and that you go backwards smoothly. Keep your abs tight and this is a good crunch.

Cheers,
Garth
Thanks, i'll keep this in mind..

I think i need a lot of practice to learn the back roll. To front i can already roll quite easily, even with some speed and from standing position. Although i have got my shoulders to hit the mat few times bit too hard. Nothing major, just a bit sore shoulders afterwards..

The back pain doesnt really surprise me, due to my hobbies/musicianship i tend to sit a lot and not use my back/abms much and i really notice this when doing Aikido. More practice will help i guess. The back pains are actually more burning than actually hurting, that should be a good sign?

The bo is an interesting weapon... I watched one of my sempais do some katas before class at his full speed and it looked amazing. This guy has really clean looking technique and he's amazingly fast. I wish i will reach that kind of tehcnique too.
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Old 01-08-2011, 05:31 AM   #62
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 78
Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Hello again.

My sixth class is behind now and this was the best class so far. I finally met my Sensei. Tough class, constant training with not much breaks. Only ikkyo stuff this time... We went through maybe six to eight different techniques which somehow include ikkyo. Damn i love this! I'm in fire!

This is so much fun and i've started to learn something. Our sensei seems to really know what he is doing. Best teaching so far. Our sempais seem to be technically as good as our sensei but they aren't so developed about teaching yet.

I love it. And our Sensei seems to be really nice guy, tough but friendly and knows his stuff very well.

Only negative thing was that there was this one guy, he's been on maybe ten classes now, as newbie as i am.. Nice bloke, but i think he uses too much force and too much hands. Well, i told him to take it easy with my wrists. And so he did.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:17 AM   #63
Pauliina Lievonen
 
Pauliina Lievonen's Avatar
Dojo: Jiki Shin Kan Utrecht
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 562
Netherlands
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Just came across this thread. It's nice to see someone who is as enthusiastic as I was in the beginning!

I think being a musician is going to be an advantage in some ways, you're already familiar with the idea that it can take years to learn something very well.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Only negative thing was that there was this one guy, he's been on maybe ten classes now, as newbie as i am.. Nice bloke, but i think he uses too much force and too much hands. Well, i told him to take it easy with my wrists. And so he did.
This is one thing that it's really useful to learn from the start. If someone is too rough on a body part of yours, don't be shy to ask them to take it easy. So you did exactly the right thing. And as you see, it usually works too. Most people aren't actually trying to hurt each other, but it's quite natural to use too much force in the beginning.

As to the bo, btw, that comes from the Hikitsuchi lineage, I used to sometimes train at the dojo in Oulu in the holidays and they do bo work as well. Other styles of aikido don't really use bo so it's a bit unusual, but I think very cool that the tradition is carried on.

The day after training - it's good to move a little even though you're sore, I think gentle movement helps more than stretching actually. Try to think of movements where you use the whole range of movement of a joint, for example the warming up exercise where you make circles with your arms like a windmill.

There was a column about what to do to keep yourself healthy before and after classes just this past month: http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19063

Maybe that will give you some ideas!

kvaak
Pauliina
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Old 01-08-2011, 10:22 AM   #64
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 78
Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Kiitti Pauliina, kiva että täällä on Suomalaistakin seuraa.
Thanks Pauliina, it's nice to have Other Finns here too.

Thanks for your advice and nice post.

Yea, i guess this other kohai doesnt know his limits with using power yet. No either do i, i tend to take it too gently or too quickly. The other students are eager to give advice, which is very positive.

Aye, i noticed that taking a walk or plowing some snow etc. the day after practice works wonders. I've done it a couple of times...

Then i have something that just popped into my mind from somewhere i feel urge to write down before it disappears... It's not too relevamnt in this topic though.

I find Aikido to be a way to explore the right and wrong, positive and negative, violence and non-voilence, ying and yang. I find it a way for me to widen my knowledge and wisdom about the polarities of our world, our right to choose, our free will. In normal setting, the Uke is the one with negative polarity, he or she is the attacker, ready to hurt nage in a "real" situation, which we simulate in our learning. Uke has made the decission to attack, and possibly, hurt the Nage. And the Nage on the other hand is in position of choise. Both polarities are present and in front of him/her to decide which align with... Uke then commits the attack, nage recieves it, blends with it and then aplies the decided technique.. If the technique is succesful, then uke has lost his or her balance and is at mercy of nage. And Nage has the power over Uke and can then decide the course of action. Which could be to hurt or kill the Uke, let him go and back off, or to detain Uke. I find this very interesting point. It's about freedom of choise and point of using either malevolent or benevolent course of action. As Osensei has guided us, as a nage we should always choose not to hurt the Uke and even make sure the Uke doesnt get hurt. In this i see a true philosophy of love towards your fellow man. Even when he/she(uke) is aggressive and ready and willing to hurt nage, nage has the freedom to choose. I find Aikido to be a physical manifestation of this philosophy and perfect tool to explore the nature of our human existance, and therefore i love this art from the bottom of my heart.
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Old 01-08-2011, 06:32 PM   #65
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
Yea, i guess this other kohai doesnt know his limits with using power yet. No either do i, i tend to take it too gently or too quickly.
No one expects beginners like you or your fellow student to have even rudimentary control, so I wouldn't be concerned about that. More importantly, however, you need to let your partner know if you have concerns about injury. Even a very advanced practitioner stands a good chance of causing you injury if you have an existing injury or physical problem and don't make them aware of it, or if their technique is too forceful for your ukemi.

Also, if you find that someone is throwing you or applying techniques with more force than you are comfortable with, make sure that your attacks are not too fast or strong. Someone (I wish I could remember who) once pointed out on this forum that the force and speed and intensity of your attack is going to come back at you. If your strike is very hard, the response will have a lot of force. If your punch is very fast, your partner will be forced to respond with equal speed. When you are training with a higher ranked person and you give them a fast and strong attack, they often have the skill to absorb a lot of it and give you back something slower and gentler, at a speed and intensity that a newbie can handle. But a less experienced person won't be able to do that, and the response they give you is likely to overwhelm your ukemi skills. My sensei sometimes says, "Don't dish it out until you can take it," It's very good advice.

Quote:
Lari Hammarberg wrote: View Post
As Osensei has guided us, as a nage we should always choose not to hurt the Uke and even make sure the Uke doesnt get hurt. In this i see a true philosophy of love towards your fellow man. Even when he/she(uke) is aggressive and ready and willing to hurt nage, nage has the freedom to choose.
Nage has the freedom to choose within the limits of his or her skillset. Without the necessary skills, there is no choice. A very advanced practitioner may be able to stop a determined and skilled attacker and do the attacker no harm, but most of us by far will never get to this level. It's an ideal, but except for a few, it is not a reality.
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Old 01-10-2011, 04:35 PM   #66
Lari Hammarberg
Dojo: Aikidoseura Asahi Lappeenranta Finland
Location: Imatra South Karelia
Join Date: Dec 2010
Posts: 78
Finland
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Re: Hello, i'm a newbie here and i have questions.

Yea, you're right Mary. I'm keeping eye on this. And i have informed my partners if there's something wrong... We have this one guy who uses A LOT of power doing his techniques, well i told him to take it easier and that's what he did. I'll be careful.

Oh, about the last thing you quoted, those things were just my thoughts about the philosophy and the nature of Aikido. =) Thanks pointing that last bit about anyway.
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