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Old 12-03-2010, 03:55 AM   #26
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Quote:
Chris Guzik wrote: View Post
There is also the question of knowing when to act, which is something that is not really trained in a dojo setting. I mean, it's possible that you may find someone setting up to strike you such that you sense it and see it coming -- if you are training carefully in your dojo you should be honing your observational skills of what preparing to strike causes to happen in someone's posture and attitude. But more likely it will either be a sneak attack or an altercation that you are secondary to, and then have to make the decision whether to get involved or not.
No one's perfect..... Nothing beats a sucker punch.....!!! And here endeth the 2nd lesson.....
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:06 AM   #27
mickeygelum
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

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No one's perfect..... Nothing beats a sucker punch.....!!!
Remember the Golden Rule,
" Do unto others , so they no longer are able to do unto you. "...and so endeth the third lesson
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:00 AM   #28
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

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Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
Remember the Golden Rule,
" Do unto others , so they no longer are able to do unto you. "...and so endeth the third lesson
Ha ha! Who's coming up with the 4th !!?
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:24 AM   #29
Hellis
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

As Kenshiro Abbe Sensei said when accosted by three muggers who demanded his wallet outside the Kings Cross dojo London...

" I am prepared to die for my wallet !! , are you ? "

So endeth the muggers :-)

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:31 AM   #30
mickeygelum
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Quote:
As Kenshiro Abbe Sensei said when accosted by three muggers who demanded his wallet outside the Kings Cross dojo London...

" I am prepared to die for my wallet !! , are you ? "
That is not sound advice , as I have heard some say the same thing.
He was lucky he was in England, and not here in the states.

Last edited by mickeygelum : 12-03-2010 at 08:34 AM.
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:21 AM   #31
Hellis
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

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Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
That is not sound advice , as I have heard some say the same thing.
He was lucky he was in England, and not here in the states.
I would agree with you there. This was England and it was 50 years ago, even in England this was a different time.

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:11 PM   #32
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
As Kenshiro Abbe Sensei said when accosted by three muggers who demanded his wallet outside the Kings Cross dojo London...

" I am prepared to die for my wallet !! , are you ? "

So endeth the muggers :-)

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
Yes!! That takes commitment Henry.....

Me, I'd give 'em the wallet and then kick the shit out of them when I've dropped it on the deck..... Hypothetically ......Ha ha!!
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:05 PM   #33
Hellis
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Hi Tony
When the would be muggers demanded his wallet, Abbe Sensei carefully took it from his inside pocket, dropped it at his feet before making his generous offer. It was a rare occasion for Sensei to leave the dojo on his own as we usually all caught the same tube train home.

Henry Ellis
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Old 12-04-2010, 05:57 AM   #34
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

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Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Hi Tony
When the would be muggers demanded his wallet, Abbe Sensei carefully took it from his inside pocket, dropped it at his feet before making his generous offer. It was a rare occasion for Sensei to leave the dojo on his own as we usually all caught the same tube train home.

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
I didn't know that Henry, but it seems the real fighting mind set does have it's common thought?

I had a similar situ in my cab one night, where they all (5) decided they weren't going to pay the fare and what they were going to do to me if they got out...... London style cabs have a locking system for the back doors This made the hackles in my neck bulge as I thought 'ere we go again' took a deep breath and quietly said to them through the partition. "Look fella's there's five of you and one of me, I ain't going to be able to take all five of you, but rest assured one of you is going to die, which one is it gonna be? It went quiet for a few seconds and then they all broke out in laughter!! Here's me sitting there wondering what the joke was about......!!
Then one guy said "naaah mate were just kiddin' ya!! Carry on.... you'll get yer money". It stayed eerily quiet and subdued for the rest of the journey until I stopped to drop them of at a "rave" as they were known then. The mouthy one gave me the fare [u]and[u] a tip then said "Like yer bottle geezer" followed by the others saying yeh mate, good on yer!!
I can tell you now I was shaking like a leaf for about ten minutes after that with the adrenalin dump.....
Happy days!!
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Old 12-13-2010, 07:18 PM   #35
ravenest
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

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Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Yes!! That takes commitment Henry.....

Me, I'd give 'em the wallet and then kick the shit out of them when I've dropped it on the deck..... Hypothetically ......Ha ha!!
What!!!??? No 'going out wallet'?

A friend of mine (a bit of a 'larriken' - to be charitible) comes up with his usuall; "Gottina fight again last night." (This guy can get in a fight in the middle of the roadway on the Sydney Harbour Bridge !) "A gang of little kids, too many of them, I felt my wallet going out the back pocket, one's head is in my face so I bit his ear, they soon bolted when a bit of blood appeared, they race across the road and go "ha ha, we got ya wallet."

"Thats a bummer." I said

"Nah, just my going out wallet."

???? Apparently a going out wallet is one with enough cash in it to get drunk, eat and get home and nothing else.

.... I know nothing of such things! - I have a reverse wallet, full of crap but no money!

Last edited by ravenest : 12-13-2010 at 07:23 PM.
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Old 12-27-2010, 11:16 PM   #36
Samurai Momo
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

I've never been in a fight since I punched Paul D. at age 6 for kicking my bicycle front tire repeatedly. I was sorry I even did that and rode home crying. As a neophyte of neophytes to the marvellous art of Aikido, I would have to agree with the wisdom on here that if you have to fight, you've already lost. That being said, there's nothing wrong with defending yourself, but it behooves you to do all you can to avoid that situation. Don't confuse pacifism with cowardice.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:45 PM   #37
ravenest
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

I solved that dilema a couple of times with a stern confident look, and saying "I REFUSE to fight you, I DO NOT fight people. However, if you attack me, I WILL defend myself."
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Old 01-05-2011, 02:24 AM   #38
Hellis
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Quote:
Michael Wilson wrote: View Post
I solved that dilema a couple of times with a stern confident look, and saying "I REFUSE to fight you, I DO NOT fight people. However, if you attack me, I WILL defend myself."
I am surprised that you find the time to have a polite conversation in a hostile situation ?

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:06 AM   #39
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

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Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
I am surprised that you find the time to have a polite conversation in a hostile situation ?

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
AHa ha ha ha ha ha !!!!
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:11 AM   #40
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Must be different people where you live cobber.....

If I said that to all the A*******s I've encountered in my 23 years as a cabbie I think would have been filled in more times than I would care to mention!!!
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Old 01-05-2011, 03:36 AM   #41
Hellis
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

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Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
Must be different people where you live cobber.....

If I said that to all the A*******s I've encountered in my 23 years as a cabbie I think would have been filled in more times than I would care to mention!!!
Tony

If you had said that to your assailants ? then you deserve to get filled in

Henry

Henry Ellis
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:42 AM   #42
Gordon Shaw
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

It seems that training addresses the way men attack men primarily, leaving women to figure out how to use these skills many times in totally different situations. Has any study been done concerning attacks on women and whether Aikido adequately addresses them?
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:01 AM   #43
mickeygelum
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Quote:
It seems that training addresses the way men attack men primarily, leaving women to figure out how to use these skills many times in totally different situations. Has any study been done concerning attacks on women and whether Aikido adequately addresses them?
Domestic Violence, Abduction, Rape and Homocide , there is a gender-specific method to commit these crimes?
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:35 AM   #44
Gordon Shaw
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Men punch and strike at each other. Women can find their attacker tearing at their clothes, possibly by someone they know. This person could already have their hands on them before it is known that they are under attack. If I was a street fighter one method I would try is to get the attacker's shirt pulled over their head tying up their arms. This is where this thought process is coming from.
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:01 AM   #45
Janet Rosen
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Many attacks on women - and here I'm specifically addressing strangers on the street, NOT domestic violence or aquaintance rape - are essentially crimes of opportunity. In several situations over the years I saw the potential threat coming and was successful in using a combination of words and movement to completely call the other's bluff (this was all long before I ever took a martial arts class - I'm from Brooklyn :-) ).

Same approach stood me in good stead when doing street patrols or concert security as a young woman. Because nobody expects the small woman to have presence, there is a moment of absolute suprise/disruption when she uses voice or body to step forward and break up an altercation, and I learned to exploit that fully (its the same surprise/disruption a batterer expects to have on his side when he socks a woman in the face).

But the attack I have never had to deal with is the one that comes from the shadows, where there is no opportunity to call the attacker's bluff; its the grab prior to a strike, takedown or drag off - and that for me is the attack most practical for women to have to learn to deal with w/o freezing (and no, I don't mean a static one handed wrist grab)

I have read several accounts of women using aikido to fight off muggers - Cindy Hiyashi's published account of fighting off multiple attackers stands out in my mind.

Last edited by Janet Rosen : 01-05-2011 at 10:02 AM. Reason: spelling

Janet Rosen
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:07 AM   #46
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Quote:
Gordon Shaw wrote: View Post
It seems that training addresses the way men attack men primarily, leaving women to figure out how to use these skills many times in totally different situations. Has any study been done concerning attacks on women and whether Aikido adequately addresses them?
I fink' you are 'avin a laugh mate, you want to see some of the states I have had to encounter on a Friday and Saturday night or any other night come to think of it....
They can be just as violent, if not worse than blokes when the alcohol hits the right spots.... believe it
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:10 AM   #47
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

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Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

If you had said that to your assailants ? then you deserve to get filled in

Henry

Henry Ellis
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Yes Henry dear.......
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Old 01-05-2011, 10:29 PM   #48
mickeygelum
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Quote:
If I was a street fighter one method I would try is to get the attacker's shirt pulled over their head tying up their arms. This is where this thought process is coming from.
@Gordon, It is obvious that you have no clue of street combat. Walter Mitty could have concocted a more realistic fantasy.
You most certainly will be the victim and not the prevailing combatant.

Quote:
its the grab prior to a strike, takedown or drag off - and that for me is the attack most practical for women to have to learn to deal with w/o freezing (and no, I don't mean a static one handed wrist grab)
Very well said.

@Janet, I know plenty of females, small in stature and build, that are plenty capable of handing out a world of hurt in a surprise street situatiion. Confidence in skills and training, good trining, are the key.

Train well,
Train hard,
Train real,

Mickey
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Old 01-06-2011, 02:08 AM   #49
Hellis
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Tony

I can see a book developing here on street defence strategy.

1 ) I solved that dilema a couple of times with a stern confident look, and saying "I REFUSE to fight you, I DO NOT fight people. However, if you attack me, I WILL defend myself." ( must engage opponent in conversation and a pint )

2 ) If I was a street fighter one method I would try is to get the attacker's shirt pulled over their head tying up their arms. This is where this thought process is coming from. ( must only fight opponent wearing a shirt )

3 ) Get behind your attacker and take him down ( when he is not looking of course )

4 ) It is the first duty of an Aikidoka in a confrontation to protect their attacker from harm ( if you are that good )

Henry Ellis
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
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Old 01-06-2011, 10:33 AM   #50
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Aikido in a street situation

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Tony

I can see a book developing here on street defence strategy.

1 ) I solved that dilema a couple of times with a stern confident look, and saying "I REFUSE to fight you, I DO NOT fight people. However, if you attack me, I WILL defend myself." ( must engage opponent in conversation and a pint )

2 ) If I was a street fighter one method I would try is to get the attacker's shirt pulled over their head tying up their arms. This is where this thought process is coming from. ( must only fight opponent wearing a shirt )

3 ) Get behind your attacker and take him down ( when he is not looking of course )

4 ) It is the first duty of an Aikidoka in a confrontation to protect their attacker from harm ( if you are that good )

Henry Ellis
http://rik-ellis.blogspot.com/
Henry,
Can you remember a book written tongue in cheek about martial arts of the world, where there was a master of halitoses, which a master was able to knock out people by his/her bad breath alone.... ?
There were/was other ridiculous things in it but a lot of people actually believed it as being kosher and it was really such a good wind up!!
I'm just thinking if these people passed this on as real, it's no wonder that people say such daft bloody things as they do today!!

I reckon we should collect all the daft, ribbon twirling, ki nonsense things said in this and other forums and publish it as "Learn the mysteries of the martial arts world and how you will become invincible".... I reckon it would be a best seller......

I remember one class when some "Ki " nut said to me "Sensei, what would you do if you were in a bar and someone hit you on the back of the head with a bottle?"
I replied "Probably fall down off my stool unconscious with a stupid grin on my face"
He didn't come back anymore......

Tony

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 01-06-2011 at 10:47 AM.
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