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Old 01-03-2011, 09:43 AM   #26
graham christian
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
So the planets move in elliptical orbits or in circular ones? Is 1st Kepler
Law untrue?

Then a Truth is a Truth based on a Truth, isn't it?

In the sense you have provided a definition of "truth" then yes, you have answered my question. Thanks.

You should read the appropiate books.

There are Twelve Spiritual Principles and Laws
Hi Demetrio.
Regarding the Keplar Law and the physical orbit being eliptical my very shallow cursory reading of it says that if the center is zero then it would be circular. Anyway, the analogy I gave of center and orbits was to show this principle in operation in Aikido. Secondly I would say that without any interference or other influences the orbit would be circular and an elipse is a form of circle anyway is it not?

Then we come to energy and it's prefered pathways.
For when someone attacks you they are doing it with energy. So in Aikido I see you can accept that energy to center and you can give it back from center and you can also accept it and lead it. Where can you lead it to is what I see as the more fascinating question?
Following the example of center and orbits then you can see you can lead it to the circle, or eclipse if you prefer, around you. Energy loves circles, it follows straight lines away from center and straight lines towards center, and it also follows spirals. So in doing a good tai-sabake and leading the opponents enegy to the circumferance of your space you are indeed putting them into orbit. This orbit is actually a path of non-resistance or least resistance and so the person enters it going around, feeling good yet not knowing why they can't stop. From a physical point of view you could say the orbit is the 'circular' path of balnce between centrifugal and centripetal force.
Bring them back inside the circle and you are then attracting them to center, let them go and you are sending them out away from center, flying off into space. Of course it takes practice to do this comfortably and takes acceptance and application.
Thanks for the reply.G.
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Old 01-03-2011, 10:46 AM   #27
C. David Henderson
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

"In geometry, an ellipse is a plane curve that results from the intersection of a cone by a plane in a way that produces a closed curve. Circles are special cases of ellipses, obtained when the cutting plane is perpendicular to the cone's axis."

Wikipedia, "Ellipse"

"An ellipse is also the locus of all points of the plane whose distances to two fixed points add to the same constant."

Ibid.

That is, it has two “center points.” Manipulating an ellipsoid structure so that you are the sun and not a planet seems a better metaphor for standard aikido technique in some ways, wouldn't you say?

Kepler's First Law means, among other things,

"In all cases of two-body motion, rotation is about the barycenter of the two bodies, with neither one having its center of mass exactly at one focus of an ellipse. However, both orbits are ellipses with one focus at the barycenter. When the ratio of masses is large, the barycenter may be deep within the larger object, close to its center of mass."

Then there's the second law, of course....

David Henderson
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:08 PM   #28
phitruong
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Firstly, let me ask: how you define "truth"?
the truth is...... i have no idea what the true is

it's all relative. one man's truth is another man's lie. just accept it!

consider the below conversation,

joe: budd, i am testing my new cell phone. i am calling you from the freeway

budd: joe, be careful, there is a report that some crazy nut is driving the wrong direction on the freeway.

joe: one nut? there are lots of them on this road!
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Old 01-03-2011, 12:53 PM   #29
David Board
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
It was not, it could not be real.
But in the roaring air he knew that it was, for all who needed to believe, and in a belief so strong that truth was not the same as fact... he knew that for now, and yesterday, and tomorrow, both the thing, and the whole of the thing.
-From the Fifth Elephant.
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Old 01-03-2011, 08:29 PM   #30
jonreading
 
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Hey Graham-

Interesting read, thanks for sharing. Notwithstanding some of the issues with your concepts as they relate to physics (some others have already weighed in on these guys), I'll throw out something which which I am having trouble understanding that Janet touched upon.

I advocate that what we call aiki happens at a point which precedes physical contact at a preemptive timing (sen sen no sen). That is, the interaction of aikido would have already happened at the time of contact. In your post however you imply that aikido happens at the point of contact (a wrist grab) and that acceptance is a principle you should apply then. This is difficult for me since I believe if you have not already connected to your partner's center by the time of contact you are not really doing the aiki part of aikido.

My two cents.
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Old 01-04-2011, 05:00 AM   #31
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
the truth is...... i have no idea what the true is

it's all relative. one man's truth is another man's lie. just accept it!
All things are Moleeds


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Old 01-04-2011, 07:32 AM   #32
lbb
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Graham Christian wrote: View Post
Hi Mary.
The basis of buddhism is indeed meant to be four noble truths so I don't understand what you mean.
It's true that Buddhism has the four noble truths. At the same time, it can be said that the basis of Buddhism is that nothing is solid and that everything changes, and that when the four noble truths or the noble eightfold path or the three characteristics of human existence or the twenty-seven whatevers turn into dogma and become rules, that's a problem.

"Our mind is always seeking zones of safety. We're in this zone of safety and that's what we consider life, getting it all together, security. Death is losing thatThe mind is always seeking zones of safety, and these zones of safety are continually falling apart. Then we scramble to get another zone of safety back together again. We spend all our energy and waste our lives trying to recreate these zones of safety, which are always falling apart. That's the essence of samsara -- the cycle of suffering that comes from continuing to seek happiness in the wrong places."

- Pema Chodron, Comfortable with Uncertainty, p. 23
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Old 01-04-2011, 02:41 PM   #33
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Mary, Is there an answer to what Pema Chodron says is the right place to look?
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:05 PM   #34
Thomas Campbell
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
Is there an answer to what Pema Chodron says is the right place to look?
Shugyo Dojo.
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Old 01-04-2011, 03:20 PM   #35
David Board
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
It's true that Buddhism has the four noble truths. At the same time, it can be said that the basis of Buddhism is that nothing is solid and that everything changes, and that when the four noble truths or the noble eightfold path or the three characteristics of human existence or the twenty-seven whatevers turn into dogma and become rules, that's a problem.

"Our mind is always seeking zones of safety. We're in this zone of safety and that's what we consider life, getting it all together, security. Death is losing thatThe mind is always seeking zones of safety, and these zones of safety are continually falling apart. Then we scramble to get another zone of safety back together again. We spend all our energy and waste our lives trying to recreate these zones of safety, which are always falling apart. That's the essence of samsara -- the cycle of suffering that comes from continuing to seek happiness in the wrong places."

- Pema Chodron, Comfortable with Uncertainty, p. 23
Ye Ole Finger and the moon.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:24 PM   #36
lbb
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
Mary, Is there an answer to what Pema Chodron says is the right place to look?
As I understand it, just like the book's title says, ultimately it's being comfortable with uncertainty and impermanence -- although the word "comfortable" is a bit of a warning sign too, isn't it? Maybe "being okay with uncertainty and impermanence" is a better way to put it. It's a great book, and if you look for Pema Chodron on Youtube, you'll probably find a lot of stuff that makes you smile and nod and laugh out loud. Highly recommended.

Quote:
Thomas Campbell wrote: View Post
Shugyo Dojo.
Yes! That place where you never really arrive and settle in, but just keep on going. It's a nightmare to some and a paradise on earth to others.
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Old 01-05-2011, 09:05 AM   #37
C. David Henderson
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Hi Mary,

I was going to say, "Abide in it," but I think it's the same idea.

Pema Chodran also talks a good deal about Tonglin practice. As I understand it, Tonglin involves deliberately calling up strong, emotionally painful experiences to work with. I have never really done it, as I suspect its something best pursued with someone with specific knowledge.

Regards,

David Henderson
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:35 AM   #38
Thomas Campbell
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post

Quote:
Shugyo Dojo.
Yes! That place where you never really arrive and settle in, but just keep on going. It's a nightmare to some and a paradise on earth to others.
Bless you, Mary, for you have understood my (lame) humor and improved upon it.
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Old 01-05-2011, 11:52 AM   #39
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Thought it was clever actually.
But...what I struggle with: Isn't that answer just a distraction from the original question?
iow: seeking to ignore it, .. to suppress the desire to be safe?
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Old 01-06-2011, 07:25 AM   #40
lbb
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Quote:
Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
Thought it was clever actually.
But...what I struggle with: Isn't that answer just a distraction from the original question?
iow: seeking to ignore it, .. to suppress the desire to be safe?
As I understand it, the answer would be "yes and no". Yes, in the sense that repressing a desire is not the answer, any more than indulging in a desire. So, if you're gritting your teeth and putting up with uncertainty and hating it every second, that's ultimately not a whole lot better than if you give free rein to your control-freak impulses and try to regulate everything in your life and cram everything into little boxes (although it may be easier on the people around you!).

I think the goal is to find a third way, where you're truly okay with the uncertainty. That doesn't mean you're always joyously happy about it; on the other hand, no matter how much you dislike it at first, uncertainty does provide its moments of delight. How you find it, I think, is a combination of confidence that you'll be okay even if you don't have it all lined up and labeled, and (more important) not making a big deal out of things. Not trying to nail down the ultimate truth. Not trying to come up with the formula that explains everything.

Here's another quote I love, from the novel "Grass" by Sheri Tepper. The scene is a hallucination or dream or vision or call it what you will, that the main character has after a head injury, of a conversation she has with the Supreme Being about all the Big Stuff:

"I don't have much confidence," she said. "A lot of what I've been taught isn't making sense."

"That's the nature of teaching. Something happens, and intelligence first apprehends it, then makes up a rule about it, then tries to pass the rule along. Very small beings invariably operate that way. However, by the time the information is passed on, new things are happening that the old rule doesn't fit. Eventually intelligence learns to stop making rules and understand the flow."

"I was told that the eternal verities--"

"Like what?" God laughed. "If there were any, I should know! I have created a universe based on change, and a very small being speaks to me of eternal verities!"

"I didn't mean to offend. It's just, if there are no verities, how do we know what's true?"

"You don't offend. I don't create things that are offensive to me. As for truth, what's true is what's written. Every created thing bears my intention written in it. Rocks. Stars. Very small beings. Everything only runs one way naturally, the way I meant it to. The trouble is that very small beings write books that contradict the rocks, then say that I wrote the books and the rocks are lies." He laughed. The universe trembled. "They invent rules of behavior that even angels can't obey, and they say I thought them up. Pride of authorship." He chuckled. "They say, 'Oh, these words are eternal, so God must have written them.'"


Another very wise book for us very small beings.
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:04 AM   #41
Diana Frese
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

Wow
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Old 01-06-2011, 08:07 AM   #42
Diana Frese
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Re: Spiritual Principles Applied

What I meant was great post. Also, great thread, I've sort of
skimmed thru, gotta run but will definitely be back to read...
Thanks everyone
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