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Old 12-22-2010, 02:41 PM   #26
Flintstone
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Wink Re: Effectiveness is the key to obtaining the other aspects of Aikido.

Quote:
Alfonso Adriasola wrote: View Post
I was not thinking of Kenji Ushiro specifically, but Minoru Mochizuki or Hironori Otsuka, but yes. Thank you.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:49 PM   #27
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: Effectiveness is the key to obtaining the other aspects of Aikido.

What then, is the key to effectiveness?
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Old 12-22-2010, 03:03 PM   #28
Nick
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Re: Effectiveness is the key to obtaining the other aspects of Aikido.

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Josh Philipson wrote: View Post
What then, is the key to effectiveness?
A clever mix of honesty and experience. The honesty to know where your waza is lacking, and the experience to understand how to fix it.

I've often said that aikidoka need better hand skills. If not to improve our atemi (which we should), then simply because better attacks make better ukes and better ukes make better nages. I've not seen an art better than aikido for single strikes or grabs, but how can we train to counter combination strikes if no one in the dojo can effectively (and safely) throw them?

---
Nick Porter
"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:23 PM   #29
Randall Lim
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Re: Effectiveness is the key to obtaining the other aspects of Aikido.

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Alfonso Adriasola wrote: View Post
Seems to have a lot of influence from Karaterdo, a little Judo & some Aikido.
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Old 12-22-2010, 07:36 PM   #30
Randall Lim
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Re: Effectiveness is the key to obtaining the other aspects of Aikido.

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Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Isn't the basis of essentially all aikido techniques weapons work - videlicet, aikido is jujutsu with the footwork of a swordsman?
And isn't this why so many aikido schools have bokken training, too?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o9PTMSwr1h0
In my opinion, Aikido footwork is not derived from the footwork of a swordsman.

Kendo, Kenjitsu, Iaido & Iaijitsu footworks are different from Aikido footwork.

Aikido's unique footwork is used exclusively in Aikido training with or without weapons.
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Old 12-23-2010, 08:48 AM   #31
Gorgeous George
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Re: Effectiveness is the key to obtaining the other aspects of Aikido.

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Randall Lim wrote: View Post
Aikido's unique footwork is used exclusively in Aikido training with or without weapons.
Exactly: that's what I said.
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Old 12-23-2010, 09:17 AM   #32
Nick
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Re: Effectiveness is the key to obtaining the other aspects of Aikido.

Quote:
Graham Jenkins wrote: View Post
Exactly: that's what I said.
Truth told, footwork is unique for whatever you're studying; it's just that after a while, you can "fake it". For instance: given rubber-soled shoes and a canvas ring, I could NOT use aikido footwork in my boxing training; I could, however, occasionally use aikido angles to throw someone off my scent. Now that I'm training in aikido again, I try to move like an aikidoka should, but if I need extra mobility, I can "fake it" by using boxing footwork to hold my center.

People that know how to move can make things work for them-- it's just getting there that's the difficult part.

Nick

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"Do not fall into the trap of the artisan who boasts twenty years of experience, when in fact he has had only one year of experience-- twenty times."
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Old 12-23-2010, 11:56 AM   #33
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: Effectiveness is the key to obtaining the other aspects of Aikido.

Quote:
Katherine Derbyshire wrote: View Post
I think you need a definition of "effectiveness" before you can really elaborate on this idea.

On the one hand, if your aikido only "works" with half-hearted attacks from people from your own dojo, you're probably missing much of the really interesting study of connection that aikido offers. That study requires attackers who are really trying to take your center, and have some idea of how to actually do so.

On the other hand, if your primary concern is making sure that uke falls down (or, as uke, refusing to do so) you're probably *also* missing much of the "good stuff." It's hard to maintain the necessary sensitivity if you're too concerned with "winning" or "losing." If your attackers are good, they'll succeed some of the time, and you need to be okay with that.

So I think being aware of openings, aware of breaks in energy flow, etc. is essential to really understanding aikido: as you explore the deeper aspects, the martial reasonableness of what you're doing is one way to tell whether you're on the right track. But that's a much more subtle idea than what most people mean when they talk about whether aikido is or isn't "effective."
Just as a take off on this post; and another one I shamelessly rip off from another forum

Quote:
..The aim is to move with complete control, to have full body power always on tap. You move faster, with supreme balance and you see attacks coming the moment you opponent thinks of them. BKF puts it quite well "you reach a stage where your mind ceases to disconnect, you start noticing how other people disconnect in almost invisible, micro intervals of time. When you catch someone between a disconnect and a re-connect, a stop and a re-ignition, you will find they are frozen and defenseless."
I liked that part.
I'm thinking of this in terms of the retrained Aiki body.
Just a thought for consideration: I think the most effective atemi comes when you can see and hit'em with the atemi...exploiting these gaps. Minimum effort, Maximum effect.

I'd still like to know how O Sensei could pin the guy with just one finger. Surfing the gap?
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