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Old 12-13-2010, 01:28 AM   #26
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
I have no idea what you're talking about, but around these parts, this is a ding dong.

(and if that don't do it for ya, here's a bunny with a pancake on its head. Classical reference, don't ya know.)
That's 'cause I'm on a different planet to you......
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:36 AM   #27
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Alex Lawrence wrote: View Post
The only thing with a spine that I've ever killed was a rabbit. I found it laying against a tree sorta shivering and struggling to breathe. I apologised, asked for its forgiveness, told it why and wished it a speedy and fortunate rebirth.

A sickening feeling.
Yep, I sometimes feel a bit annoyed with myself when they run out into the road at night..... that dunk a dunk noise as you run over 'em....
Now the deer are a lot worse as you never know which way they will dart.....
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:43 AM   #28
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Haha! I've been thinking about this for the last few days! All this talk about bunnies killing Aikido brought it straight to mind.

I liked a lot of the questions Nicholas asked, particularly the one about tough guys who might or might not be immune to aikibunnyism: we do all bring pre-existing experiences, some of which aren't exactly fluffy. Maybe the softies need more Shodothugism and the tough guys could do with a touch of the aikibunnyism.
Hee hee! sssshhhh!!
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:41 AM   #29
Nicholas Eschenbruch
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Great stuff folks!

So we found one self-declared Shihan-Bunny, that's one mighty sighting in the history of aiki zoology! And a Shodo-Thug seems to have admitted in passing to liking a little fluff.

The few other actual sightings seem to have been some time ago, and only by the wife of somebody, who trained with somebody.... any more sightings, real or imagined? Can we get closer to actual aikibunnies than that?

It was also established that Aikibunny, the tough little creature, could well be related to the rabbit of Caerbannog, and it may then take the Holy Handgrenade to neutralise it. Wow. Anybody trained against the Holy Handgrenade?

Cannot help to make a little freudian note that a discussion of aikibunny can lead to a conversation about breaking necks. Dont know what to do with that, though.

I much appreciate pancake bunny as well, though it would have to be felt if it has any real aiki/internal strength and uses appropriate groundpaths in balancing that pancake. Any takers?

Last edited by Nicholas Eschenbruch : 12-13-2010 at 02:43 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:26 AM   #30
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
Great stuff folks!

So we found one self-declared Shihan-Bunny, that's one mighty sighting in the history of aiki zoology! And a Shodo-Thug seems to have admitted in passing to liking a little fluff.

The few other actual sightings seem to have been some time ago, and only by the wife of somebody, who trained with somebody.... any more sightings, real or imagined? Can we get closer to actual aikibunnies than that?

It was also established that Aikibunny, the tough little creature, could well be related to the rabbit of Caerbannog, and it may then take the Holy Handgrenade to neutralise it. Wow. Anybody trained against the Holy Handgrenade?

Cannot help to make a little freudian note that a discussion of aikibunny can lead to a conversation about breaking necks. Dont know what to do with that, though.

I much appreciate pancake bunny as well, though it would have to be felt if it has any real aiki/internal strength and uses appropriate groundpaths in balancing that pancake. Any takers?
Never tried pancake and bunny before..... Maple syrup or lemon?
Wadya reckon?
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Old 12-13-2010, 04:32 AM   #31
Hellis
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Charles David Henderson wrote: View Post
Chicken on it's best day doesn't taste as good as rabbit...damn that bunny.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

During the second world war meat was scarce, for me to bring home a rabbit for mum, just to witness her delight and the following rabbit pie, the left overs made a appetizing stew....There was little difference in rabbit or cat once skinned.....Rabbits became rare and cats almost extint .

Henry Ellis
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:22 AM   #32
Peter Goldsbury
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Hello Henry,

I was born in 1944, so my early childhood was just after the war. I remember ration books and have very fond memories of eating rabbit. My mother used to stew it or do it in a pie.

Speaking of aiki-bunnies, were there any in the UK? I don't remember meeting any in the dojos where I trained and I started quite a bit later than you did. Before I went to K Chiba's dojo in Chiswick, I used to train at the Budokwai, where John Cornish taught aikido. Mr Cornish thought that Aidan Smyth and I were lunatics for going to Chiba's dojo. Well, we went and never looked back, but I would never call Mr Cornish an aiki-bunny.

Best wishes,

PAG

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Old 12-13-2010, 06:15 AM   #33
Hellis
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Hello Henry,

I was born in 1944, so my early childhood was just after the war. I remember ration books and have very fond memories of eating rabbit. My mother used to stew it or do it in a pie.

Speaking of aiki-bunnies, were there any in the UK? I don't remember meeting any in the dojos where I trained and I started quite a bit later than you did. Before I went to K Chiba's dojo in Chiswick, I used to train at the Budokwai, where John Cornish taught aikido. Mr Cornish thought that Aidan Smyth and I were lunatics for going to Chiba's dojo. Well, we went and never looked back, but I would never call Mr Cornish an aiki-bunny.

Best wishes,

PAG
Hi Peter

There was never any such creatures in the early days, no Ki Aikido or music and those dopey ribbons in the dojo, there was only one Aikido and that was " Traditional " ....I often smile, or perhaps grimace is more fitting when I see what goes by the name of " Traditional Aikido ".
In the beginning as I have said before, approx 90% of new students were old students of Judo, you try telling those guys they are not harmonizing with you The very first Aikido course/seminar was held in Devises at Graham Burts Judo Club circa 1959, there was no ill intent towards Ken Williams and myself but we were tested on every technique. I remember I took one guy so hard and high that he smashed the lighting tubes leaving the mat covered in tiny fragments of glass...It all went well and Devises Judo Club became a part of the British Aikido Council with regular course..Graham Burt went onto introduce Aikido to Canada where he sadly died in a freak accident.

Henry
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:26 AM   #34
niall
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Aiki bunnies = all the aikidoka born in 1999, 1987, 1975, 1963, 1951, 1939, 1927 and 1915.

Have a good 2011 - it will be your year.

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People born in the year of the Rabbit are the most fortunate. They are smooth talkers, talented, ambitious, virtuous and reserved. They have exceedingly fine taste and are regarded with admiration and trust.
http://japanese.about.com/od/japanes...1/a/100498.htm

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Old 12-13-2010, 09:32 AM   #35
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
Aiki bunnies = all the aikidoka born in 1999, 1987, 1975, 1963, 1951, 1939, 1927 and 1915.

Have a good 2011 - it will be your year.

http://japanese.about.com/od/japanes...1/a/100498.htm
Very smart Niall
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:34 AM   #36
gregstec
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Nicholas Eschenbruch wrote: View Post
Aikibunny is a ubiqitous yet most elusive creature; apparently, he (she?) makes up the large majority of aikido practitioners, yet, when have you last seen one in the flesh, that is, in the fur?

According to many, Aikibunny is a Californian rodent. He smoked too much pot in the 70s, took aikido to Esalen and then downhill from there. (Yet I once got palmsmashed in the throat and koshi-ed into oblivion by one of those Esalen pioneers, no fluffy feeling there...) Aikibunnies seem to have congregated around that Dobson guy, too, yet it would be hard to say why, after all he broke fingers and was a little rough, they say.

According to some, Aikibunny is an obese, passive aggressive intellectual: male, middle- aged. OK, those exist, but then, what is so bunny about them, sounds more like aikiwalrus. According to others, Aikibunny is probably female, emotionally all over the place, the touchy-feely neurotic who screams abuse in the midle of technique. I have only met one in more than fifteen years. Was I lucky?

Where does Aikibunny really exist? Is (s)he only a phantasy?

Is Aikibunny the dance teacher with the flowery aikido who we vaguely suspect will get off with that attractive beginner after the seminar? Is Aikibunny quite sexy in a sort of forbidden way?

Maybe I am Aikibunny myself; after all, I meditate and I do burn incense sometimes; I have not been in a physical fight since the age of fourteen. How tough do I have to be not to be an Aikibunny? Is an occasional nosebleed in my training enough or do I have to be out on the streets arresting people who may carry weapons?

If you used to be tough, but not so much anymore, would that make you an aikibunny or are you immune?

Were there any Aikibunnies before, say, 1970?
Did Aikibunny study with O-Sensei? (After the war, of course...)
Does liking the second doshu make one an Aikibunny?
Are there Shihan-Bunnies? Yoshin-bunnies or Shodo-bunnies?

Does „real aiki" give a whole new dimension to aikibunny? The dark side of the fluff?

Aikibunny's aikido could be improved, that's for sure.
Are we all Aikibunny then?

Aikibunny could be Freudian rabbit.

Do you socialist with Aikibunnies on a regular basis? Do you have a bad conscience about it?

Inviting your stories about Aikibunny, real and imagined....
Hi Nick, sounds like you have had a lot of free time on you hands lately and maybe you have been lighting up something else along with that incense

Good post though and it appears it has drawn out some hidden sides of the personalities of a few of the regulars around here.

As for me, I am more aligned to Aiki-Bunny than Aikibunny

Greg
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:10 AM   #37
Keith Larman
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
Hi Peter

There was never any such creatures in the early days, no Ki Aikido or music and those dopey ribbons in the dojo, there was only one Aikido and that was " Traditional " ....I often smile, or perhaps grimace is more fitting when I see what goes by the name of " Traditional Aikido ".
Again, I think this is a really interesting comment. Traditional Aikido for the you guys in the UK was defined by the teachers who brought it to the UK for the UK. So defining "Traditional" was quite dependent on the teachers involved. Keep in mind that soon Tohei K would be the chief instructor while Ueshiba M was still alive and he brought his "version" of "traditional" aikido to the West Coast of the US primarily. So the question of what is "traditional" depends greatly on who you studied with. And all these guys (Abe, Abbe, Tohei, et al) were doing their thing while Ueshiba M was still alive. So if Tohei was made Chief Instructor at the headquarters while Ueshiba was still alive, wouldn't that make a good case for considering *his* version of Aikido the "traditional" or "official" version of Aikido? At least up until he resigned and Kisshomaru took over?

I would argue that there were multiple branchings that occurred and that each teacher had a significant impact on the way Aikido was perceived. Tomiki, Shioda, Tohei, et al went in their own directions to some degree. Also, self-selection tends to occur. The harder guys like Abe tended to attract those looking for a "harder" art. But keep in mind there were stories of Tohei handling Judoka himself in Hawaii. Just a bit differently. And I seem to remember interviews saying Tohei's discussion of principles and ki came about in part as a means of explaining concepts to the people in the US he was trying to teach. So the audience gets a message geared to their "inclinations" hoping to get them to understand.

Unfortunately sometimes that audience then reads vastly more into what is said. That "teaching method" becomes "absolute truth" rather than just one view into a larger picture.

Anyway, I just find the historical aspect and evolution of the art fascinating.

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Old 12-13-2010, 10:28 AM   #38
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny


Source http://tnbbc.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:08 AM   #39
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

I sort of got rumblings of aikibunnyitis (we didn't call it this but had a word that rhymed with city banker) when I was reaching or nearing shodan, 1979 - 80 where suddenly we were told that doing press ups on the back of the wrists is not a good thing and will give you wrist problems later in life..... Strange why that should be as I don't get wrist problems and still manage to do 20 slowly everyday back and front... making 40, sometimes I do 50 just to keep my hand in and feeling particularly frisky!! The trick to doing good press ups is to do 'em slow.... More burn to the muscle.....
I believe one of Henry's boys has the record for this?
I started to see aikibunnyitis (city banker) appearing more and more after 1980, but never ever dreamt it would get to these proportions.......

Last edited by Tony Wagstaffe : 12-13-2010 at 11:12 AM. Reason: forgot something
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Old 12-13-2010, 11:30 AM   #40
Hellis
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

I would agree with Tony when he suggests that these suspect people came out in the open would have been around 1980. I believe the term city banker was universal....
I remember going to see a demonstration of Aikido, the super sensei said he was sorry that the hall was too small as he usually did 40 ft throws.... I stepped on the mat and asked him to do a 4ft throw on me. He refused to even talk to me, I told him that I would visit his dojo the following week. I went to the dojo in a school. It was closed, the caretaker told me the guy had suddenly closed his class.

I have never known one person to have a proble from doing push-ups on the backs of the wrists...If you can't do them, then say they are bad....It never stopped me playing the piano, it was not having a piano that stopped me.

Henry

Henry Ellis
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Old 12-13-2010, 01:52 PM   #41
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
I would agree with Tony when he suggests that these suspect people came out in the open would have been around 1980. I believe the term city banker was universal....
I remember going to see a demonstration of Aikido, the super sensei said he was sorry that the hall was too small as he usually did 40 ft throws.... I stepped on the mat and asked him to do a 4ft throw on me. He refused to even talk to me, I told him that I would visit his dojo the following week. I went to the dojo in a school. It was closed, the caretaker told me the guy had suddenly closed his class.

I have never known one person to have a proble from doing push-ups on the backs of the wrists...If you can't do them, then say they are bad....It never stopped me playing the piano, it was not having a piano that stopped me.

Henry

Henry Ellis
http://aikido-controversy.blogspot.com/
I was wondering Henry, that is it possible that these aikibunnies suffer from too much city banking, thus having the problems with their wrists? Just a thought.....

Tony
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Old 12-13-2010, 02:28 PM   #42
Mary Eastland
 
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Okay, Tony. I, for one, really get it. You are super manly and yours is the best Aikido ever.

What you posted about your wife reminded me of the time I was practicing with a woman from another dojo at summer camp. This dojo was know for being the "real thing". The woman was the only woman from that dojo. We were both 1st kyu at the time. She threw me really hard 4 times...then it was my turn. I thought "wow...this is going to be fun." I threw her the way she was throwing me. Once. Then she got up looking a little rattled and said "why don't we go easy?" I said "sure"..I don't need to throw hard to throw well but I thought we throwing hard.

I think maybe the men in her dojo let her throw them hard and then threw her easy. Probably to protect her feminity. Right?
I know today, for me, that soft is best.
Thanks for the reminder.
Mary
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Old 12-13-2010, 03:19 PM   #43
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

I'm going to agree with Mary on this one. Yes, train hard, but if you think doing push ups on your wrists will lead to really good aikido...then I think you might be missing the point of aikido.

Don't get me wrong, being physically fit is important and I am always concerned about the lethargic members of my club. However, if any of the internal training talked about around here is to be listened to, pure muscular strength is but one, small facet of the martial art.

Dean.

"flows like water, reflects like a mirror, and responds like an echo." Chaung-tse
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Old 12-13-2010, 05:15 PM   #44
Walter Martindale
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Quote:
Attilio Anthony John Wagstaffe wrote: View Post
I sort of got rumblings of aikibunnyitis (we didn't call it this but had a word that rhymed with city banker) when I was reaching or nearing shodan, 1979 - 80 where suddenly we were told that doing press ups on the back of the wrists is not a good thing and will give you wrist problems later in life..... Strange why that should be as I don't get wrist problems and still manage to do 20 slowly everyday back and front... making 40, sometimes I do 50 just to keep my hand in and feeling particularly frisky!! The trick to doing good press ups is to do 'em slow.... More burn to the muscle.....
I believe one of Henry's boys has the record for this?
I started to see aikibunnyitis (city banker) appearing more and more after 1980, but never ever dreamt it would get to these proportions.......
Well, I'm finding that after only 17 years my wrists are getting tender and don't like doing those back of hand or ridge-hand push-ups.

Physical fitness and general strength? Absolooteley!!! Yes, I know that's not how to spel it. 8-)

I used to get criticised for being too strong when I started Aikido but then lately I hear about how O-Sensei had a crushing grip and was kinda solid when he was younger... What exactly is wrong with being strong? I can learn to do the movements without much force or strength, using movement and flow to effect a technique, but if I can do pull-ups, dips, bench press, split squats with light weight (say 60 kg) and so on, what's wrong with that on top of "light" technique? Won't it make the light technique that much easier to do for a longer time, and won't it give me the option of blasting through a movement if (say) it's in situ?

My judo sensei was training in the Kodokan around the time Isao Okano was All Japan Champ. At 80 kg, he was the lightest of the era to win - after all it's an "open weight" competition - vide Yasuhiro Yamashita.
Dave (my sensei) said that he asked Okano what he did for his strength training - answer "Just Judo".. A few weeks later, Dave caught Okano in the weight room bashing some prodigious amount of steel around, and asked - "I thought you didn't do weights" - answer "this is also judo"... Photos from Okano's books - he was not a skinny little fellow - Tank, perhaps - similar in proportion to images of O-Sensei when he was in his younger years...
W
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Old 12-13-2010, 09:46 PM   #45
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Quote:
Walter Martindale wrote: View Post
Well, I'm finding that after only 17 years my wrists are getting tender and don't like doing those back of hand or ridge-hand push-ups.

Physical fitness and general strength? Absolooteley!!! Yes, I know that's not how to spel it. 8-)

I used to get criticised for being too strong when I started Aikido but then lately I hear about how O-Sensei had a crushing grip and was kinda solid when he was younger... What exactly is wrong with being strong? I can learn to do the movements without much force or strength, using movement and flow to effect a technique, but if I can do pull-ups, dips, bench press, split squats with light weight (say 60 kg) and so on, what's wrong with that on top of "light" technique? Won't it make the light technique that much easier to do for a longer time, and won't it give me the option of blasting through a movement if (say) it's in situ?

My judo sensei was training in the Kodokan around the time Isao Okano was All Japan Champ. At 80 kg, he was the lightest of the era to win - after all it's an "open weight" competition - vide Yasuhiro Yamashita.
Dave (my sensei) said that he asked Okano what he did for his strength training - answer "Just Judo".. A few weeks later, Dave caught Okano in the weight room bashing some prodigious amount of steel around, and asked - "I thought you didn't do weights" - answer "this is also judo"... Photos from Okano's books - he was not a skinny little fellow - Tank, perhaps - similar in proportion to images of O-Sensei when he was in his younger years...
W
Ssssshhhh!!
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Old 12-13-2010, 10:09 PM   #46
Tony Wagstaffe
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

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Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Okay, Tony. I, for one, really get it. You are super manly and yours is the best Aikido ever.

What you posted about your wife reminded me of the time I was practicing with a woman from another dojo at summer camp. This dojo was know for being the "real thing". The woman was the only woman from that dojo. We were both 1st kyu at the time. She threw me really hard 4 times...then it was my turn. I thought "wow...this is going to be fun." I threw her the way she was throwing me. Once. Then she got up looking a little rattled and said "why don't we go easy?" I said "sure"..I don't need to throw hard to throw well but I thought we throwing hard.

I think maybe the men in her dojo let her throw them hard and then threw her easy. Probably to protect her feminity. Right?
I know today, for me, that soft is best.
Thanks for the reminder.
Mary
Actually Catherine (who is very feminine and beautiful to me) would only practice with the men as she hated woman bunnies and wimps.... Ask a few of the old timers from the British Aikido Association days during the 80's and you would get an idea.... They were top notch seeded randori players and were no pushovers. All said she was no pushover and quietly complained to me personally that she can be a bit rough, But that's what comes of being a daughter of a Regimental Sergeant Major I suppose?

And no my aikido isn't the best in the world, but it works and I can do it as soft as you like.... I have a theory, no in fact I know that you cannot and will not understand soft until you have practised the hard first.....
Wouldn't you agree?.....
Maybe when you reach your 60's and onwards, well yes time to take stock and ease off a bit.... That's only natural.... Have to get old sooner or late, preferably later.....
I seem to remember reading that Proff Ueshiba, although small in stature, was built like a tank and was very powerful physically.... sort of dismisses that he only did soft all his life doesn't it?
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Old 12-14-2010, 02:22 AM   #47
Nicholas Eschenbruch
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

So a lot of energy seems to be going into exorcising Aikibunny, with well, some repetitions happening, but maybe that is a necessary part of any good exorcism.

Aikibunny seems to be a threat to some people's masculinity, it was implied... which is an interesting perspective. On a not so unrelated note, I think we all got the point that some believe aikibunny masturbates a lot, thanks lads, can we put that point to rest now please?

If I do push-ups on the back of my wrists, am I immune to the aikibunny disease?

Still, we have not described many real encounters with Aikibunny at all; to my mind George Sensei comes quite close when he says in a parallel thread someone told him "his energy body was not very sensitive". Apart from the Shihan-bunny and the aiki-bunny (spelling... ) we had here, that's the first actual sighting of the pure-bred creature I would tend to confirm. But in this thread - not even ONE actual first-hand sighting in how many Pages???? No more?

Greg,
no, I dont light stuff apart from an occasional incense stick, sometimes my mind goes on these ramblings all on its own when I am not careful... Aikibunny has been with me for a while as an interesting explorative tool, so writing did not take that much time actually. Train well and say hi to the aiki-bunnies you meet...

So, apart from the "things-used-to-be-much-rougher-back-then" perspective, any other explorations?

Last edited by Nicholas Eschenbruch : 12-14-2010 at 02:25 AM. Reason: clarity
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:21 AM   #48
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
Location: Bracknell
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 634
England
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

So, doing push-ups on the back of your wrists misses the point of Aikido :-) :-) :-)
In the " Tadashi Abe " thread I referred to the books I proudly own from the 1950s by Abe Sensei, the books contains many photos of him doing various of these push ups. I would have enjoyed seeing someone from a distance tell Tadashi Abe that he was missing the point of Aikido.....

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
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Old 12-14-2010, 04:25 AM   #49
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,073
Spain
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
In the " Tadashi Abe " thread I referred to the books I proudly own from the 1950s by Abe Sensei, the books contains many photos of him doing various of these push ups.
This is a bit inexact.
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Old 12-14-2010, 05:33 AM   #50
Tony Wagstaffe
Location: Winchester
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 1,211
United Kingdom
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Re: Tales and Phantasies of Aikibunny

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
So, doing push-ups on the back of your wrists misses the point of Aikido :-) :-) :-)
In the " Tadashi Abe " thread I referred to the books I proudly own from the 1950s by Abe Sensei, the books contains many photos of him doing various of these push ups. I would have enjoyed seeing someone from a distance tell Tadashi Abe that he was missing the point of Aikido.....

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
Henry,

It's funny how putting the cat in amongst the pigeons ruffles all these feathers..... I'm enjoying this......

Tony
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