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Old 12-06-2010, 10:11 AM   #51
sorokod
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Detecting a deficiency of Saito sensei's kumitachi's (to which incidently he reffered as 'ichi no tachi' etc... ):

kumitachi 1,2,3
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51xsumatrJw

kumitachi 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5TTI4Yi_Xw

kumitachi 5
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GDe4o9PB2zE

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Old 12-06-2010, 10:44 AM   #52
Cliff Judge
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Quote:
David Soroko wrote: View Post
Detecting a deficiency of Saito sensei's kumitachi's (to which incidently he reffered as 'ichi no tachi' etc... ):
What's the deficiency?
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Old 12-06-2010, 12:06 PM   #53
sorokod
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Ahhh... not enough of them :-)

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Old 12-06-2010, 05:31 PM   #54
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

You know, it's interesting that Ueshiba flipped the roles of uchidachi and shidachi in ichi-no-tachi.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 12-06-2010, 07:46 PM   #55
ravenest
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Hello, glad to help!

To clarify where this is coming from, I am a 4th kyu learning this from a handful of yudansha in NYC where Sugano did not do a ton of weapons work. My knowledge is seriously limited--you have the real source in Jikou, who came here in summer at the time of Sugano Shihan's memorial and taught at couple of classes that focused on this work.

That said, I did do ichi no ken on Thursday.
Lucky you! I went to training last night and no ichi no ken for me (no weapons at all actually ... for a while). I finally got to watch that clip, yes EXCELLENT this is exactly what I am talking about.

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Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Ichi no ken: Teacher and student are in hamni (Sugano goes over this concept extensively in youtube clip) and student breaks maai with a direct ski or thrust. Teacher steps back and anticpates student's next move, which is kiritske (sp?), a strike to the head, by blocking and checking the student's accuracy and maai.
Yes, he says it is a block but "blocking is practice only". See how at times he is extending the sword forward on an angle (not at 90 deg to the side), at times he just holds it there (near 90 deg. to side), but this is where he takes one hand off, holds the others sword, raises and lowers it, checks mai, etc and other training helps and hints. Then he cuts back.

My issue is this is seen as block by some ie. they do it quickly, no chance to check accuracy and other things and then come straigt back with a cut, which - under these circumstances is very hard to keep out of distance. If that was the case I'd be in, cutting and out of there and bugger checking accuracy and technique.

Even so, I notice Sensai Sugano's partner in this demo also seems to have trouble getting back out of range after Sensai cuts back, there is a distinct 'double-shuffle' there. That was annoying me as it seemed the only solution I could come up with.

I also loved what he said about making an opening to recieve a specific attack and then countering that attack - as a technique - instead of just fighting. I also encounter this with empty hand; I was training with a karate-ka, he is showing me some of his style and I am showing him some Shorin-ryu, we are practicing defense from head attacks, his turn, he is all guarded up, my turn is making him so discombobulated he has to stop, as I am not standing there with my arms and hands up protecting my head "Why dont you do that, I am told to start this way by my instructor." my response was "because I WANT you to attack my head, then I know what might be coming, The way you stand its too hard for me to attack your head, so I'd come in with a faint to the head and kick you in the gonzales while all your defense is up there." (unless he's good with leg blocks )

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Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Then teacher returns with a strike, which student parries. Teacher goes under the student's blade and skis, student changes hamni and parries again, and then thrusts deeply to force teacher to move back. This kind of resets maai and forces a conclusion.
Yes! This is the part that I was 'sucked in' to; this forcing the 'teacher' to move back then drawing away and offering the arm seemed to have some 'gravity' attached to it, the 'student' forcing back and then retreating a bit, a bit like a wave braking on the shore and running back ... sorta
Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Student raises and presents an opening--sets a trap if you will. Teacher goes for the wrist of student, student steps off the line and delivers a strike to the head. Teacher dies, student lives.

If you are learning weapons from Jikou Sugano Sensei then surely this is what you are learning...
yep! Surely it is. Thanks for posting and re-affirming to me Im not (that) crazy
Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Have fun, this type of weapons training is really inspiring me right now.
Deborah
Yep, its great isnt it!

My understanding is that No 2 is the same as No 1 but there is no 'block', teacher steps back and meets the cut. I like that one, student can really get into the attack ... and now the cut back at the student, at this point (IMO) makes a lot more sense.

I'd love your take on 3. My understanding is teacher goes under the students blade and parries and then steps forward with a cut to the knee (ie no back and forward ski but one ski followed by knee attack)

Ermmm, better leave number 4 for now ... this is where confusion really set in ... but I think I have worked out, its just others disagree with me (which is fine IF they can offer a solution or a movement as to what it might be -I just get really annoyed by the: "Thats not it." 'Okay what is it then" 'I dont know." )
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:32 PM   #56
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

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Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
You know, it's interesting that Ueshiba flipped the roles of uchidachi and shidachi in ichi-no-tachi.
Do you mean how the "good guy" starts it all?
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Old 12-06-2010, 08:34 PM   #57
Cliff Judge
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

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Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
You know, it's interesting that Ueshiba flipped the roles of uchidachi and shidachi in ichi-no-tachi.
You mean how the Aikiken kata begins with the kata "winner" / nage advancing on the kata "loser" / uke? But in the Kashima kata, it's the kata "loser" / shidachi who advances.

In every real sword system I have seen, uchidachi and shidachi start five steps away, and the kata begins with that space being closed somehow. There is a lot going on in those three to five steps before contact. (Is there a generic technical term for the coming together part of a kumitachi?)

Aikiken doesn't seem to have that. I don't see it in these videos. In Saotome Sensei's kata, uke and nage start in seigan with kissaki touching. (Is there a generic technical term for the distance at which two swordsmen in seigan can touch the tips of their swords together?) I've always been curious why O Sensei / Kissomaru / Saito didn't think it was worthwhile to include that.
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Old 12-07-2010, 12:20 AM   #58
sorokod
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

There is a partner practice called ki musubi no tachi which starts at a (non kissaki touching) distance:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dKjGXHrko4k

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9EpY6PirZw

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Old 12-07-2010, 01:15 AM   #59
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
In every real sword system I have seen, uchidachi and shidachi start five steps away, and the kata begins with that space being closed somehow.
Oh?
I think there are a whole lot of kata starting within a nearer distance, often with kissaki even touching?
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Old 12-07-2010, 05:47 AM   #60
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote:
Do you mean how the "good guy" starts it all?
Quote:
Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
You mean how the Aikiken kata begins with the kata "winner" / nage advancing on the kata "loser" / uke? But in the Kashima kata, it's the kata "loser" / shidachi who advances.
In both the KSR and aikiken versions, "shidachi" makes the first move - this is a step in and threatened tsuki (or cut to the hands) in KSR, and a straight cut in aikiken. Shidachi induces the first straight cut in KSR, and then responds to it with the evasion and cutting the wrist with an upward strike. In aikiken, his advancement/threatened tsuki is delayed until after shidachi raises to cut. So in both, shidachi makes the first move, and uchidachi responds and counter-attacks. But which side of the kata is doing shidachi has been flipped, and the timing thereby changed. So far beyond simply being the Kashima Shinto-ryu ichi-no-tachi structure modified for aikiken technique, the whole nature of the kata has been changed, the lessons therein completely different. Which is not surprising, but rather interesting, I thought.

Quote:
In every real sword system I have seen, uchidachi and shidachi start five steps away, and the kata begins with that space being closed somehow. There is a lot going on in those three to five steps before contact. (Is there a generic technical term for the coming together part of a kumitachi?)
There's no universal general term -- in the Nippon Kendo Kata, probably the widest practiced style, the term "susumi/susumu" is used -- "advance forward." Some old styles use the term "shikakeru", meaning, roughly, "to set upon". As noted above, though, such movement is not always done in old styles.

Quote:
Aikiken doesn't seem to have that. I don't see it in these videos. In Saotome Sensei's kata, uke and nage start in seigan with kissaki touching. (Is there a generic technical term for the distance at which two swordsmen in seigan can touch the tips of their swords together?) I've always been curious why O Sensei / Kissomaru / Saito didn't think it was worthwhile to include that.
Just a guess, but I'd hazard this is one of the clearer demonstrations of aikiken being about improving one's taijutsu, rather than an independent weapons system. One big part of that movement forward in old styles is training maai -- finding the point where you can strike without being struck, where the enemy most wants to strike you, and so on. Aikido is not focused on such questions of distance with long weapons, it's focusing on a much shorter maai -- initial attack and contact happening much closer than with two swordsmen. Particularly if you're using swordwork to demonstrate a principle, it's quicker and easier to just start from the maai that can demonstrate it, rather than doing the whole closing distance thing.

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:11 AM   #61
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
Aikido is not focused on such questions of distance with long weapons, it's focusing on a much shorter maai -- initial attack and contact happening much closer than with two swordsmen. Particularly if you're using swordwork to demonstrate a principle, it's quicker and easier to just start from the maai that can demonstrate it, rather than doing the whole closing distance thing.
yup, we prefer closer distance, because at longer distance, it will take all day to be close enough for a strike, which would take time away from us going out drinking and carousing. maai is important, but the other factors are more important.
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Old 12-07-2010, 06:23 AM   #62
Aikilove
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

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Cliff Judge wrote: View Post
I've always been curious why O Sensei / Kissomaru / Saito didn't think it was worthwhile to include that.
Because osensei wasn't doing Kashima shinto ryu. He used some old forms as tools but (in his mind) included aiki in the forms and made up new ones to augment the old ones. It was ALL about aiki for Ueshiba. Therefore: "This is how you would do that WITH aiki". Not about fighting techniques. That is why if you're going to do bukiwaza as part of you aikido training then you better know how it should fit in, and be consistent with your empty hands forms.

What actually is interesting to me is the talk about aiki lately, found at these forums and elsewhere, as a form of internal training/power and how it is different from the standard aiki (of timing and blending type also referred to as ki no musubi - tying your ki with that of your partner). However, it's quite clear to me (and Saito M sensei talk about this as well) that the aiki of aikiken, as bequeathed by the founder, was not so much of the former kind (IP) as that of the latter (ki no musubi).

So that when the founder stated: "This is how you would do that WITH aiki" the aiki part would be basically the difference in what you see between ichi no tachi of KSR and Aikiken (Saito); i.e essentially how you control openings (and how you are without openings!) thereby completely negating all attacks except the one you intend to draw out. In that way you are in complete control of time and space and in fact transcends time and space and concepts like sen no sen, sen sen no sen or go no sen, It becomes a matter of instant victory (masakatsu agatsu katsu hayabi)

*enough rambling*

Last edited by Aikilove : 12-07-2010 at 06:27 AM.

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 12-07-2010, 01:05 PM   #63
Ellis Amdur
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Jacob wrote:
Quote:
What actually is interesting to me is the talk about aiki lately, found at these forums and elsewhere, as a form of internal training/power and how it is different from the standard aiki (of timing and blending type also referred to as ki no musubi - tying your ki with that of your partner). However, it's quite clear to me (and Saito M sensei talk about this as well) that the aiki of aikiken, as bequeathed by the founder, was not so much of the former kind (IP) as that of the latter (ki no musubi).
Jacob - This is a really important statement. I think you are absolutely correct, in so far as Saito sensei's weapon's work, and all of it's off-shoots. However, let me add a caveat. Note this video Through most of it, Ueshiba is doing the blending you are talking about. But here and there, he demonstrates internal strength. We have two alternative explanations, in my view:
1. Ueshiba M. only wanted to teach the blending/musubi, which comprised most of his demonstrations, but to demonstrate his mastery/how wonderful he <alone> was, he added these internal strength manifestations that he learned from Daito-ryu.
2. The organization of the body and mind that occurs with internal strength training is absolutely essential to achieve ki no musubi abilities at a high level. Those abilities enable the practitioner to elicit certain responses from aite which are NOT dependent on them taking "good" ukemi or becoming a "dive bunny."

Ellis Amdur

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Old 12-07-2010, 05:30 PM   #64
ravenest
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

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Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
... the whole nature of the kata has been changed, the lessons therein completely different. Which is not surprising, but rather interesting, I thought.
Yes, interesting. This can also occur by changing the bunkai of a kata while the actuall move in the kata can be exactly the same. (When a kata has a single performer but each move is demonstarted by two in a 'bunkai'.) eg. Nobudi Nogata (sic?), supposedly an empty hand defense against Bo and other attacks. One set of bunkai demonstrate, well basically, brute strength. I prefer not to try to break baseball bats with my forearm, then after kick, then after do a series of unrelated moves that dont seem to flow together. Exactly the same moves can be used in a different way if one swaps sides (ie. the attack comes in yokoman from the left instead of right, or, you reverse sides with the pattern) utalising principles I learnt in Aikido, then all subsequent moves flow together unto the next obvious set of moves ( a new bunkai).

One way you learn strength and oppostion, the other way you learn to utalise the opponnnts strength and flow one move 'economically' into the other.

I just whish teachers would spend more time explaining WHY certain moves and interpretations are required.

Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
Just a guess, but I'd hazard this is one of the clearer demonstrations of aikiken being about improving one's taijutsu, rather than an independent weapons system. One big part of that movement forward in old styles is training maai -- finding the point where you can strike without being struck, where the enemy most wants to strike you, and so on. Aikido is not focused on such questions of distance with long weapons, it's focusing on a much shorter maai -- initial attack and contact happening much closer than with two swordsmen.
Yes, in the above clip Sensai Sugarno stops, just as he attacks, takes the sword from his hand and grasps the others hand saying this is the correct maai
Quote:
Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
Particularly if you're using swordwork to demonstrate a principle, it's quicker and easier to just start from the maai that can demonstrate it, rather than doing the whole closing distance thing.
Yes, its just that as soon as one picks up a sword ... thats all most of us can see - look out, he has a sword! Whereas perhaps we should view it more as ... say a boxer sees a skipping rope?
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:18 PM   #65
Cliff Judge
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

I just think having uke and nage each take five steps back and then come forward would create an opportunity to work on the part of aiki that is about communication between uke and nage. Attention / intention type stuff that George Ledyard Sensei has developed a lot of material on, and has written about.

Something that has come up in this thread with regard to Sugano Sensei's paired sword exercises is that there is one where nage is supposed to make uke feel like they are being drawn into the attack. That's the kind of thing I am talking about. I think some of you guys are pretty quick to wave that away as though its just a component of swordfighting and isn't useful to Aikido.
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Old 12-07-2010, 07:24 PM   #66
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Yes, but one can work just as easily on that from swordtip distance as from five steps away. More to the point, you don't even need swords. Why do the five step thing for swords, but not for empty hand?

Josh Reyer

The lyf so short, the crafte so longe to lerne,
Th'assay so harde, so sharpe the conquerynge...
- Chaucer
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:19 AM   #67
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

This is an interesting question; the main line of Daito Ryu seems to do the closing distance thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLrC5niLBQ

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Joshua Reyer wrote: View Post
Why do the five step thing for swords, but not for empty hand?
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:17 AM   #68
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Quote:
Ellis Amdur wrote: View Post
Jacob wrote:

Jacob - This is a really important statement. I think you are absolutely correct, in so far as Saito sensei's weapon's work, and all of it's off-shoots. However, let me add a caveat. Note this video Through most of it, Ueshiba is doing the blending you are talking about. But here and there, he demonstrates internal strength. We have two alternative explanations, in my view:
1. Ueshiba M. only wanted to teach the blending/musubi, which comprised most of his demonstrations, but to demonstrate his mastery/how wonderful he <alone> was, he added these internal strength manifestations that he learned from Daito-ryu.
2. The organization of the body and mind that occurs with internal strength training is absolutely essential to achieve ki no musubi abilities at a high level. Those abilities enable the practitioner to elicit certain responses from aite which are NOT dependent on them taking "good" ukemi or becoming a "dive bunny."

Ellis Amdur
Couldn't say it better myself. Brilliant! Man we really need to get together someday over drinks! (I'm frequently visiting the east coast...)

Jakob Blomquist
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:59 AM   #69
Cliff Judge
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Quote:
Peter Gröndahl wrote: View Post
This is an interesting question; the main line of Daito Ryu seems to do the closing distance thing.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SLrC5niLBQ
Yeah, everything about the attack is very defined in koryu jujutsu. A lot of Aikido organizations - mine included - have embraced the opposite dynamic. Less dictation of how the attack comes in. Some people prefer to train that way, I kind of do, but not with weapons.
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Old 12-09-2010, 06:20 AM   #70
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

Hi Michael, glad we are talking about the same thing! Again, my knowledge is limited, but this is such an exciting part of my practice right now that it's great to discuss it with someone.

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Michael Wilson wrote: View Post
Yes, he says it is a block but "blocking is practice only". See how at times he is extending the sword forward on an angle (not at 90 deg to the side), at times he just holds it there (near 90 deg. to side), but this is where he takes one hand off, holds the others sword, raises and lowers it, checks mai, etc and other training helps and hints. Then he cuts back.

My issue is this is seen as block by some ie. they do it quickly, no chance to check accuracy and other things and then come straigt back with a cut, which - under these circumstances is very hard to keep out of distance. If that was the case I'd be in, cutting and out of there and bugger checking accuracy and technique.

Even so, I notice Sensai Sugano's partner in this demo also seems to have trouble getting back out of range after Sensai cuts back, there is a distinct 'double-shuffle' there. That was annoying me as it seemed the only solution I could come up with.
Yes, to me this is an interesting paradox about what Sugano Sensei was doing. On one hand, everything's about speed, and not about form. There are only two strikes. Each strike is to be completed quickly. I took a small handful of Sugano's weapons classes before he stopped teaching due to illness, and I could never come close to keep up with his expectations re: speed, and assumed that this was the only goal. But this system is really more about (to my eye anyway) developing a sense of connection with your partner. Stopping as "teacher" to check your "student's" accuracy is an interesting doorway to understanding a lot of things about reaction and timing. So on one hand, you have this system based on two cuts and this notion that a sword is a smashing tool, not so much a delicate slicing tool. And on the other you wind up with these very intense moments of connection--the sensations of drawing and forcing, or understanding that if your hanmi is rigid you give your partner too much information--that are much harder to get in an empty hand practice. For me, anyway. It's much easier for me to learn how to keep my sword "empty" than it is for me to keep my arm "empty."

Regarding footwork and getting where you need to be in time, the emphasis I am being taught is on sliding and shuffling, and staying in right hanmi and keeping your feet close together. If you're in a relatively tight hanmi, you can spring back or forth, but if you plant yourself, you're done.

The thing I've been finding most interesting these days is where to focus my eyes. In that video Sugano says that thing about not looking at the weapon, not looking at the opponent, and talks about how hard that is. No kidding!! I find that if I kind of try to focus on the wall behind my partner, my reaction times are better. But that if I am looking at my partner directly, I get really jumpy and anticipatory. Interesting.

Quote:
I also loved what he said about making an opening to recieve a specific attack and then countering that attack - as a technique - instead of just fighting. I also encounter this with empty hand; I was training with a karate-ka, he is showing me some of his style and I am showing him some Shorin-ryu, we are practicing defense from head attacks, his turn, he is all guarded up, my turn is making him so discombobulated he has to stop, as I am not standing there with my arms and hands up protecting my head "Why dont you do that, I am told to start this way by my instructor." my response was "because I WANT you to attack my head, then I know what might be coming, The way you stand its too hard for me to attack your head, so I'd come in with a faint to the head and kick you in the gonzales while all your defense is up there." (unless he's good with leg blocks )
Right, again, I'm new at this, and I know nothing about karate. But I think I get what you are saying. I don't do a whole lot of fighting elsewhere in my life. So this weapons practice, because it's so focused on reaction and timing, has given me my first clear sense of what it means to be "open" or to have a strategy or understand what your attacker thinks or any of these other concepts. I feel like I am approaching my empty hand practice with more basic martial common sense, and taking better/more active ukemi because I am understanding that part of my role is to find and exploit openings.

Quote:
Yes! This is the part that I was 'sucked in' to; this forcing the 'teacher' to move back then drawing away and offering the arm seemed to have some 'gravity' attached to it, the 'student' forcing back and then retreating a bit, a bit like a wave braking on the shore and running back ... sorta
When it works, it's amazing. And thinking about how it works is really thrilling. I can't say I understand it but today is weapons class and I am really looking forward to spending some time with this.

Quote:
My understanding is that No 2 is the same as No 1 but there is no 'block', teacher steps back and meets the cut. I like that one, student can really get into the attack ... and now the cut back at the student, at this point (IMO) makes a lot more sense.
Yes, that's my understanding as well. Blocking is stupid, it ruins your sword. It's for training purposes only. But it's hard to return that first strike with any accuracy at all without some practice just getting your boken up there, IMO.
Quote:
I'd love your take on 3. My understanding is teacher goes under the students blade and parries and then steps forward with a cut to the knee (ie no back and forward ski but one ski followed by knee attack)
Yes, this is #3, and this is as far as I've gone. It's a knuckle scraper! I can't talk about it, I've only done it a handful of times.
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Old 12-12-2010, 05:13 PM   #71
ravenest
Dojo: Way of Falling Water
Location: NSW
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Thumbs up Re: Ichi no ken ?

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Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Hi Michael, glad we are talking about the same thing! Again, my knowledge is limited, but this is such an exciting part of my practice right now that it's great to discuss it with someone.
Hi Deborah, ditto (finally the discussion is about the thread title )

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Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Yes, to me this is an interesting paradox about what Sugano Sensei was doing. On one hand, everything's about speed, and not about form. There are only two strikes. Each strike is to be completed quickly. I took a small handful of Sugano's weapons classes before he stopped teaching due to illness, and I could never come close to keep up with his expectations re: speed, and assumed that this was the only goal. But this system is really more about (to my eye anyway) developing a sense of connection with your partner.
I havent done this exercise looking at speed, all instructors have focused on different aspects; relationship, music and rythym (the first time I ever understood what the hell Mushashi was talking about when he goes; 'Dont go; ho-hum ho-ha hum, go; ha-ho, ha ho, HUM (or something like that?) There seem to be a LOT of levels of learning in this. I've encountered the mad speed thing with students ... but maybe thats not what you mean?
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Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Stopping as "teacher" to check your "student's" accuracy is an interesting doorway to understanding a lot of things about reaction and timing. So on one hand, you have this system based on two cuts and this notion that a sword is a smashing tool, not so much a delicate slicing tool.
Hmmm ... I've encountered that with students too, but I dont get that from this exercise. I learnt a totally differnt way of attacking with the sword from these exercises compared to sword work I did in another school, they used it like an axe! In my understanding the the two strikes are KIRITSUKI (there ya go Josh ) I see this as a thrusting cut to the forhead. The way I was taught is that the sword comes down, when hands are at eye level the sword more or less maintains its position and the body 'surges' forward 'following' the sword ... sorta. In Kyu-shin-ryu they charge forward and crash the sword down on top of the head. This leaves the attacker very open to a thrusting off line attack. When I tried this against kiritsuki the oncoming blade deflected my thrust, ran up my blade and straight in to the top of the forehead. I see the other type of attack as a type of di-jodan (?) , by that I mean, a cut straight down on to the top of the head ... a bit like an axe blow ... I see its use more as a follow up technique for close quarters, where one doesnt have space to lead with the sword. I'd say the knee attack in 3 seems to be a slice?
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Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
And on the other you wind up with these very intense moments of connection--the sensations of drawing and forcing, or understanding that if your hanmi is rigid you give your partner too much information
Yes ... I've deffinatly changed that! Look at some clips of sowrd that have been linked here and other places ... not much classic hanmi there.
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Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
--that are much harder to get in an empty hand practice. For me, anyway. It's much easier for me to learn how to keep my sword "empty" than it is for me to keep my arm "empty."

Regarding footwork and getting where you need to be in time, the emphasis I am being taught is on sliding and shuffling, and staying in right hanmi and keeping your feet close together. If you're in a relatively tight hanmi, you can spring back or forth, but if you plant yourself, you're done.
So glad to hear that, I got sick of being told (in the other school) not to do little springs or jumps ... but they worked! - when nothing else seemed to.
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Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
The thing I've been finding most interesting these days is where to focus my eyes. In that video Sugano says that thing about not looking at the weapon, not looking at the opponent, and talks about how hard that is. No kidding!! I find that if I kind of try to focus on the wall behind my partner, my reaction times are better. But that if I am looking at my partner directly, I get really jumpy and anticipatory. Interesting.
No ... LOOK at you partner ... ALL of him (or her), not just a bit of them. Look at them like you look at a distant mountain or a tree. You see the tree as a whole, not looking at all the seperate leaves branches twigs and trunk, take the whole lot in in one go. Its a type of spherical awareness and should extend in a sphere around you (you will pick it up from Ju-waza - unless your teacher instructs people not to attack if you arent looking at them ????? ) or years as a (surviving) motorcycle rider. Look at all of them but dont be attached to them. Throw a handfull of something on a table or the ground and count the objects all at once without individual counting ... that sorta stuff. I guess one is also looking at other things with this 'holistic' vision ,,, the persons 'demenour', spirit, ki 'stream', etc?
Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
When it works, it's amazing. And thinking about how it works is really thrilling. I can't say I understand it but today is weapons class and I am really looking forward to spending some time with this.
Lucky you! I damaged my back at training last week AGAIN! No training for me - bummer. In so much pain I thought ... okay, I gotta give this up. Today I can walk again and I'm thinking ... hmmm wonder how long before .... ? But G. F. has given me a little lecture about it and responsibility . (Note; JIC - I have serious back issues and dont blame the actuall aikido, its good for it! I flu through the air, wrestle and roll, then walk a cross the mat, turn and step funny . wack! out it goes _ I can lift up the back of the car but last time I injured it it was lifting a 2kg, water bottle? - So - if you are new and reading this - thats why I get injured ... actually Nikyo seems to be the only thing that fixes my shoulder!)

Quote:
Deborah Fisher wrote: View Post
Yes, that's my understanding as well. Blocking is stupid, it ruins your sword. It's for training purposes only. But it's hard to return that first strike with any accuracy at all without some practice just getting your boken up there, IMO.

Yes, this is #3, and this is as far as I've gone. It's a knuckle scraper! I can't talk about it, I've only done it a handful of times.
Three seems to have this nice fluidity to it, the way the sword is returned to its 'up' position after the knee deflection (when the wrist is 'offered' )seems crucial to create this 'wave' - 'sucked into the attack' effect I was talking about above

No 4 awaits you - easy ... just remember all the rest but do it on the other side .... HA ... a real brain twister! (for some)

Last edited by ravenest : 12-12-2010 at 05:20 PM.
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Old 03-31-2011, 10:55 AM   #72
edshockley
Dojo: Aiklikai of Philadelphia
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Re: Ichi no ken ?

There is a clear recording of the late Sugano Shihan's unique bokken series in a film called BETWEEN HEAVEN AND EARTH by Henry Smith Shihan(Aikikai of Philadelphia). It is completely dissimilar to Seito's famous katas. Also Sugano Shihan taught his series in the same week as the Waite Shihan example in the second post. (I happened to be there for both of the classes that year.) To my knowledge the Sugano footage from USAF summer camp has yet to be posted.
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