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Old 08-16-2002, 09:53 PM   #51
Pretoriano's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido Santa Fe
Location: Aragua Venezuela
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 130
80% of Aikidokas Attacks I train and Ive seen makes me Laugh!!
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Old 08-17-2002, 03:26 AM   #52
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
Location: Brazil
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 355

Manuel Ch. Anderson (Pretoriano) wrote:
80% of Aikidokas Attacks I train and Ive seen makes me Laugh!!
KAMI : Pretoriano, you're saying that you "saw and trained" with 80% of ALL the World's aikidoka???

Really amazed...

"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Ubaldo Alcantara
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Old 08-17-2002, 04:03 AM   #53
Dojo: ShinToKai DoJo of AiKiDo
Location: Brazil
Join Date: Feb 2001
Posts: 355

Let me congratulate Peter Goldsbury, Chris Li, George Ledyard and Peter Rehse, for the very best posts on this thread!

It's difficult to say anything else after them...

An interesting thing I've observed : how this thread is sensitive. Perhaps cross-training is much more important than many people think...

It's always a pleasure to read what some people write here. Thanks, guys!


"We are all teachers, and what we teach is what we need to learn, and so we teach it over and over again until we learn it".
Unknown author

Ubaldo Alcantara
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Old 08-19-2002, 01:33 PM   #54
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
Clarity to the words

Well, it has been about a month, since July 13-14, and I see the forum is closed.

Part of my observation as to Small Circle Jujitsu resembling many of the sword practice, and conversions to wrist locks, etc.

The three simple wrist exercises he uses for warm ups is so closely related to many of the wrist movements in bokken or jo practice, it is quite laughable when people tell me there is no simularitys in the two styles.

As for the innumerable misconceptions about what O'Sensei said, there is a context to his own beliefs that causes a somewhat different slant upon the words that are written, translated, and interpreted by people around the world.

O'Sensei had a strong sense of national pride in his art and his country, and it took many long years to get his permission to allow outsiders to view his art that became Aikido. That includes many of his own Japanese brethren who did not have the right attitude to accept the responsibility to properly use his teachings.

The fact that we take pieces of his words, bend them to what we think they should mean, is by no means the entirety of what was being transmitted through training, verbal lessons, and usually one guy watch O'Sensei's top half while someone watched O'Sensei's bottom half so they could put together whatever he was teaching. If that isn't a diffucult way to learn, I don't know what is.

There are four or five pages of stories I could relate from our talks during lunch and after class, but realize that much of what you need to learn for Aikido does not always come from inside your Aikido class.

Many of your insights will come from studying from books, talking, exchanging ideas, and sometimes from examining the simularities and differences in arts that are not Aikido.

Maybe it is my delving into four or five other arts that made me fall in love with Aikido, but it also opened my eyes to how the world in its diversity ... is very simular in its use of movements also.

So, Back to the subject.

First, if you haven't already, find out what I am talking about, with the three warmup wrist movements Wally Jay uses, then tell me how they relate to bokken and jo training.

Maybe then we will begin to see many other movements that are simular to other arts, and progress to talking about how Aikido truly is effective in its training regimen without striking and causing injury.
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Old 08-19-2002, 03:02 PM   #55
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
Location: Barnegaat, NJ
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 893
And about the striking

May I am training in a different way than some of you, as the USAF Aikikai's do not endorse actual contact with strikes of kicks to the point of injury, or potential injury, most strikes or kicks are controled, plus uke's are instructed to use one hand to block/make ready to avert or change offense into defense.

Or maybe the tough guys want to tell you how the movements in professional wrestling don't hurt or cause injury? (another subject for doubting how pain can be administered.)

Get out there and talk to some of the people who have met and trained with O'Sensei. See if they do not put many of the teachings of aikido into a different context.

Last time I saw Siiechi Sugano sensei, he clarified many points on universal harmony was not the goal of the entire human race, but the goal of each human being to be in allignment with their god or religion. From that allignment, we must be able to get along. The virtual peace we find within ourselves, although we do not agree about our religions or even how to live, is put aside by the fact that our love for our god puts us in allignment.

Ask about, when you go to seminars. See if more clarity comes to light with those students who had experiences with O'Sensei.
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Old 08-24-2002, 09:17 PM   #56
Neil Mick
Dojo: Aikido of Santa Cruz
Location: Santa Cruz, CA
Join Date: Jun 2002
Posts: 225
Re: expansion or denial?

Mike Lee (mike lee) wrote:
Before one starts looking to other fighting methods to expand one's arsenal, one should carefully consider whether one is actually looking for a way to make up for one's lack of skill in aikido.

If one wants to study violence, then one should go to a dojo or gym where such things are practiced. But if one wants to study the budo of love, the art of peace, then one should seek to master aikido.

Damaging joint locks, agressive punching and kicking are the budo of violence.

Go to Hombu dojo in Japan and start throwing side kicks around or box with your partner and then watch the sensei's reaction.
I think you all got lost on a side-note, but let me relate a personal experience.

I took capoeira for 4 years while I was training at Aikido (I still train Aikido but no longer in capoeira). I had been training in Aikido for 10+ years when I started capoeira, and I joined the Brazilian art for all the things Aikido didn't have: the kicks, acrobatics, the music.

Once in a blue moon I've taught Aikido responses to capoeira moves: it's a lot of fun! But I really wasn't thinking of "expanding my arsenal," when I practiced capoeira. My martial interests just took 2 roads for awhile. I still get pulled into a roda (game), now and again.

Still, I see your point, and diffusing your studies too widely in too many disciplines is, I think, not a good way to focus.
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