Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Announcements & Feedback

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-09-2010, 01:21 AM   #1
guest1234567
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 428
Spain
Offline
Ego in the forum

Ego: egotism; conceit; self-importance
When I am training I can feel the different characters of my ukes, if they are calm, relaxed, nervous, rigid,in a hurry or angry. There are a few guys who only like to train with high grades never with newbies, because with the last they cannot exhibit themselves. This is ego in the dojo.
Reading the threads in this forum and thinking about them I found also different personalities.Luckily many are so kind to find the information or just report an experience that might help the person who is posting. But I'm sorry to find some people who like to provoke or if they cannot answer in their own words just quote a famous phrase sometimes in another language, to exhibit themselves even if the person who is asking won't understand it. And finally I found a few who also like to show their great knowledge, these ones enjoy to write endless comments. They have the good intention to help, but don't think that if they put too much information, maybe they will annoy the person who is asking.

I 'd like to quote 3rd Doshu Moriteru Ueshiba Sensei, thanks Niall for your post in your blog..
One must, for example, maintain good Aikido posture and movement throughout the day. More important, however, is to maintain a modest attitude, and harmonize mind and body. In the realm of human relationships, one must avoid conflict and resolve problems in a harmonious Aikido fashion. In order to do this well, one must above all be modest and humble.
http://www.aikidoonline.com/articles...hiba_Q_A_2.php

This is not a personal attack to anybody in this forum, I'm just writing my thoughts reading your posts ant threads as a new member.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 03:20 AM   #2
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,033
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Are you modest and humble?

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 03:57 AM   #3
niall
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
niall's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Japan
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Those are things that needed to be said, Carina.

Is it naive to expect aikidoka to have respect for each other and each other's points of view?

And the ai in aikido - why do so many people forget it when they are outside a dojo?

And Demetrio why are you trying to evade the questions? Ask yourself not somebody else.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


aikiweb blog|wordpress blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 04:31 AM   #4
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
And the ai in aikido - why do so many people forget it when they are outside a dojo?
I believe the "ai" in "aikido" is inseparable from the "ki". I believe it's not ai-ki-do, but aiki-do.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 04:31 AM   #5
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,033
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Niall, I'm not evading Carina's questions. In fact there are any questions in her post.

Now, if you want me to question myself If I'm modest and humble, I've already done that. I don't consider myself nor modest nor humble, at least I try not to be one of those modest, humble ad egoless people cause, paraphrasing Spinoza, they are usually most ambitious and envious.

Like Nietzsche said, he that humbleth himself wishes to be exalted.

So, what the ones who are into this "one must above all be modest and humble" are really looking for?

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 04:36 AM   #6
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
So, what the ones who are into this "one must above all be modest and humble" are really looking for?
Ahhh, your rhetorical way... You already replied yourself, of course. They want to be exalted as the most humble and modest. But you already knew that .
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 04:36 AM   #7
guest1234567
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 428
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Are you modest and humble?
I don't know Demetrio, that is a question for my companions in the dojo and my sensei.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:17 AM   #8
niall
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
niall's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Japan
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Well it didn't take very long for the personal attacks to start.

Great I get to use the irony mark.

Alejandro your opinion about parsing aikido is yours. Interesting to know you don't believe in blending or harmony. And you've just shown you can't join a debate without making a personal attack.

Q.E.D. Which was Carina's point.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


aikiweb blog|wordpress blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:22 AM   #9
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,033
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Carina, if they say you're modest and humble, you are. If they say you're not modest and humble, then you aren't.

You are defined by what others (the aikido group, but not your family, friends, coworkers, neightbors, etc) think about you, isn't it? Are you in a cult, maybe?

Niall, where is Alex personal attack? I don't see it.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 11-09-2010 at 05:25 AM.

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:22 AM   #10
niall
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
niall's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Japan
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Demetrio I don't mind if you ask yourself or not. But thank you for an honest answer. I wondered why you turned the subject back onto the original poster instead of addressing the point. Because that is avoiding the central debate.

Why in an aikido forum is there so much low level spitefulness and lack of respect.

[I just saw you edited your post to ask me about Alejandro's attack. Sorry Demetrio I thought it was clear. It was when he said that people who are into being modest and humble want to be exalted as the most humble and modest. So that is a personal attack on the OP for starting the thred, on me for joining the debate agreeing with her, nearly every aikido teacher I know and nearly every budo teacher I know.]

Last edited by niall : 11-09-2010 at 05:35 AM.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


aikiweb blog|wordpress blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:29 AM   #11
phitruong
Dojo: Charlotte Aikikai Agatsu Dojo
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 1,896
United_States
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
Well it didn't take very long for the personal attacks to start.

Great I get to use the irony mark.

Alejandro your opinion about parsing aikido is yours. Interesting to know you don't believe in blending or harmony. And you've just shown you can't join a debate without making a personal attack.

Q.E.D. Which was Carina's point.
didn't thought that was a personal attack, but then it might be. question though, without attack how can you do the so-called blending or harmony thing of aikido? without chaos, can you define order? without hate, can you define love? without, yin, do you understand yang? without death, what is life? without ego how can you eat breakfast?
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:36 AM   #12
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,078
Japan
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Despite the egoists and the trolls, I think this is an excellent forum. It is owned and managed by Jun Akiyama without any conditions for joining, except those four forum rules that appear whenever you write a post.

It is a large general forum which Jun manages on his own, without the help of any moderators. And there is room for all types of post.

I was once chastized by Kisshomaru Ueshiba for making adverse comments about the aikido of a famous shihan. Doshu gently told me that it was best that I note the differences between my aikido and his, without making any judgments, especially judgments in words.
Kisshomaru Doshu was exhibiting a certain kind of rhetoric, certainly not the adversarial rhetoric favoured by those following a Greek/Roman model.

Here is part of a discourse attributed to the Buddha:
"Speech that the Tathagata knows to be untrue, false, and useless, and also unpleasant and disagreeable to others, he does not speak; that which he knows to be true, real, and useful, but also unpleasant and disagreeable to others, in that case he knows the right time to express it. Speech that he knows to be untrue, false, and useless, but also pleasant and agreeable to others, he does not speak; that which is true, real, but useless, and also pleasant and agreeable to others, that, too, he does not speak; but that which is true, real, and useful, and also pleasant and agreeable to others, in that case he knows the right time to express it." (Edward Thomas, The Life of Buddha as Legend and History, 1975, pp. 136-137.)

The rhetoric that alluded to here has as an overriding principle the knowledge of when to speak (or post) and when to keep silent.

Best wishes,

P Goldsbury

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:37 AM   #13
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,033
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
Demetrio I don't mind if you ask yourself or not. But thank you for an honest answer. I wondered why you turned the subject back onto the original poster instead of addressing the point. Because that is avoiding the central debate.
.
Niall, I'm not avoiding the central debate. Unless you consider going socratic on OP is avoiding the debate. Maybe you prefer a different aproach to the issue but your dialectic preferences are not mine nor mandatory here afaik.

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:45 AM   #14
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,033
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
[I just saw you edited your post to ask me about Alejandro's attack. Sorry Demetrio I thought it was clear. It was when he said that people who are into being modest and humble want to be exalted as the most humble and modest. So that is a personal attack on the OP for starting the thred, on me for joining the debate agreeing with her, nearly every aikido teacher I know and nearly every budo teacher I know.]
Or simply he shares Nietzsche, Spinoza and other views instead of sharing the views of said aikido and budo teachers.

BTW, do you consider a personal attack every divergence from your opinion?

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:51 AM   #15
niall
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
niall's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Japan
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Nice post Peter, with a lot of good points. And I agree completely about Jun. But when you say there is room for all types of post let me counter that I have been told explicitly that someone has given up posting in the forums because of the aggressiveness. That's not good. And if people don't bother accessing the site because of it or are reluctant to become contributing members because of it that's not good either. I'm still relatively new on here so I don't have your sang-froid about the atmosphere.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


aikiweb blog|wordpress blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 05:55 AM   #16
niall
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
niall's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Japan
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Demetrio I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there for a while but no you just proved Carina's point too. And you're still avoiding the debate.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


aikiweb blog|wordpress blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 06:03 AM   #17
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,033
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
Demetrio I was giving you the benefit of the doubt there for a while but no you just proved Carina's point too. And you're still avoiding the debate.
You've just won the thread.

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 06:32 AM   #18
Mary Eastland
 
Mary Eastland's Avatar
Dojo: Berkshire Hills Aikido
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,333
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Good Morning:
I like the truth. My truth might be different from others. I have learned much by posting and not posting on Aikiweb.

Thank you, Peter.

I have also learned much from watching and reading posts by others.
In the dojo I don't handpick my ukes. I must accept what they bring to the practice. I do this forum the same way. If the post is to wordy I don't read it. If it is sarcastic or demeaning, I don't take it personally.
This forum is another oppurtunity to train. I watch my thoughts and watch my ego.
When my feelings get hurt, I know I have to much invested and it's time for another time out.
There are some diamonds in the hay here.
Mary
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 06:32 AM   #19
guest1234567
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 428
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Peter A Goldsbury wrote: View Post
Despite the egoists and the trolls, I think this is an excellent forum. It is owned and managed by Jun Akiyama without any conditions for joining, except those four forum rules that appear whenever you write a post.

It is a large general forum which Jun manages on his own, without the help of any moderators. And there is room for all types of post.
I agree with you Prof Goldsbury it is an excellent forum thanks to Jun Akiyama who controlls very well the egoists and trolls. I hardly recognize a few of them

And Demetrio we are in an aikido forum, naturally you can also ask my family , neighbours or coworkers what they think about me, but I don't think it fits in an aikido forum
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 06:38 AM   #20
Flintstone
Dojo: Wherever I happen to be
Location: Zaragoza
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 587
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Please Niall, what are you talking about? Did I troll the thread? Did I really attack Carina or yourself? What's the connection between what Peter said about Jun and trolls with me and the thread? Are YOU trolling me?

Oh, sorry, you don't like my opinion so I must be a troll.

Oh, yes, and I don't believe in blending and harmony? Do you read that from my post? Come on, you still cannot read minds. You failed.

I do believe in blending. I just do not believe the 合 in aikido can be separated from 合気 . Just saying that aiki is not "blending". And you consider that I don't believe in blending. Oh, sorry I'm not in the same level of understanding that you are. Both in Aikido or reading comprehension.

I just don't buy AIKIDO is "the way of harmony with Life, the Universe and Everithing", but "the way of Aiki (which is a set of skills, both internal and external)". But, hey, you are right, I meant it as a personal attack to Carina and/or you.

Go figure. I believe you attacked me, but I'm no friend of Jun and maybe you are. That's why you won't be banned.

Last edited by Flintstone : 11-09-2010 at 06:51 AM. Reason: spelling
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 06:42 AM   #21
Nicholas Eschenbruch
Dojo: TV Denzlingen
Location: Freiburg
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 315
Germany
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Quote:
Mary Eastland wrote: View Post
Good Morning:
I like the truth. My truth might be different from others. I have learned much by posting and not posting on Aikiweb.

Thank you, Peter.

I have also learned much from watching and reading posts by others.
In the dojo I don't handpick my ukes. I must accept what they bring to the practice. I do this forum the same way. If the post is to wordy I don't read it. If it is sarcastic or demeaning, I don't take it personally.
This forum is another oppurtunity to train. I watch my thoughts and watch my ego.
When my feelings get hurt, I know I have to much invested and it's time for another time out.
There are some diamonds in the hay here.
Mary
Great post Mary, thanks.
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 06:55 AM   #22
Peter Goldsbury
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Peter Goldsbury's Avatar
Dojo: Hiroshima Kokusai Dojo
Location: Hiroshima, Japan
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 2,078
Japan
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Hello Niall,

Well, I think we will have to agree to disagree.

When I stated that there is room for all types of post, I meant a wide spectrum, from the heavy-duty researched columns that I write, to the much more general chat discussions that take place often. You countered with a suggestion that I did not intend. I do not condone breaking of the rules of the forum, but I think it is up to Jun to decide what is aggressive. Sometimes I send him my opinions by PM, but it is his forum.

I have some experience of general martial arts forums and I moderate one of them. It is not the first time that someone has noted displays of egotism, conceit and self-importance in such forums and I am sure that Carina's post won't be the last.

I think people do not post for a variety of reasons, not merely because of aggression displayed. The fact that one does not have anything useful or appropriate to contribute is quite a powerful reason for me. I do not do blogs, nor do I like Facebook, though I have a very uneventful page there. How I see my own aikido, on or off the mat, is a private matter and I have no desire to reveal this to anyone, and certainly no obligation to do so.

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
Nice post Peter, with a lot of good points. And I agree completely about Jun. But when you say there is room for all types of post let me counter that I have been told explicitly that someone has given up posting in the forums because of the aggressiveness. That's not good. And if people don't bother accessing the site because of it or are reluctant to become contributing members because of it that's not good either. I'm still relatively new on here so I don't have your sang-froid about the atmosphere.
Best wishes,

PAG

P A Goldsbury
_______________________
Hiroshima, Japan
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 06:59 AM   #23
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,033
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

I'm starting to thing some people would like to see enforced an Aikiweb version of japanese Peace Preservation Laws.

Kokutai must not be altered. So let it be written, so let it be done.

Last edited by Demetrio Cereijo : 11-09-2010 at 07:08 AM. Reason: typo

  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 07:24 AM   #24
niall
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
niall's Avatar
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 394
Japan
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Thank you, Peter. Sorry for misinterpreting your point.

Demetrio I believe debate can be lively and robust without being aggressive and without personal attacks. There's plenty of that on bullshido and other places. If I misinterpreted your posts or Alejandro's I apologize.

By the way joking aside maybe another historical thread (about kokutai) is a good idea - your Turbulent priests and millenarian protest link was very interesting.

Last edited by niall : 11-09-2010 at 07:28 AM.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
w b yeats


aikiweb blog|wordpress blog
  Reply With Quote
Old 11-09-2010, 08:33 AM   #25
Demetrio Cereijo
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 2,033
Spain
Offline
Re: Ego in the forum

Niall, in reality there is nothing to be discussed.

Doshu said:

"In the realm of human relationships, one must avoid conflict and resolve problems in a harmonious Aikido fashion. In order to do this well, one must above all be modest and humble."

Sacred magisterium is not to be discussed by puny humans.

On Kokutai. Easy:

1- Get a Kokutai no Hongi (maybe there are still some available in Japan)
2 - Put the "aikido" where necessary.
3 - ....
4 - Profit

PS: You don't need to apologize to me.
PS 2: If you are still wondering why in an aikido forum is there so much low level spitefulness and lack of respect, the answer is... because is an aikido forum.

  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Purpose of the Anonymous Forum akiy Anonymous 0 06-26-2013 07:14 PM
"Non-Aikido Martial Traditions" Forum akiy Non-Aikido Martial Traditions 133 06-23-2011 10:26 AM
On The Anonymous Forum akiy Announcements & Feedback 3 01-06-2010 05:19 PM
"Off-The-Mat" Forum akiy "Off-The-Mat" 6 06-02-2008 12:22 AM
This Forum Just Lost Credability it had Left. Kelly Allen Announcements & Feedback 42 04-22-2004 09:28 AM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 09:47 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2016 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2016 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate