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Old 10-15-2010, 07:17 AM   #1
nuxie
 
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When should I buy Hakama

Howdy all!

I see that in Aikido that everyone wears Hakama pants and a Judo top. I have looked at these on internet and are a bit pricey

At what rank etc do you start to wear these items? Also since the people I am training with so far are also newbies like me (exept sensei) is there a belt I should be wearing? I notice one of the firrst ranks is a white belt. So should I hold off wearing a white belt until it is earned? I have been just wearing a normal white Karate gi no belt so far. I am only a couple months into training .

Thanks for the info!
Mary
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:32 AM   #2
chillzATL
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Mary Simonsen wrote: View Post
Howdy all!

I see that in Aikido that everyone wears Hakama pants and a Judo top. I have looked at these on internet and are a bit pricey

At what rank etc do you start to wear these items? Also since the people I am training with so far are also newbies like me (exept sensei) is there a belt I should be wearing? I notice one of the firrst ranks is a white belt. So should I hold off wearing a white belt until it is earned? I have been just wearing a normal white Karate gi no belt so far. I am only a couple months into training .

Thanks for the info!
Mary
It varies, the instructor should answer all those questions for you.
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:38 AM   #3
Dazzler
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Hi Mary

Hakama rules vary from place to place but its really a question for your Sensei. In my experience this is not linked to rank directly but more to demonstration of the attributes associated with a position of responsibility within the dojo.

Within my own group it is usually awarded around 3rd kyu for males but usually earlier for females.

As for the belt thing - wear the white belt or your clothes will fall off !

Regards

D

ps. just seen Jasons reply. Agree.
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Old 10-15-2010, 07:38 AM   #4
amoeba
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

I agree, though I'd say that you normally wear a white belt from the beginning... my Judo Gi at least wouldn't hold without one!
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:27 AM   #5
nuxie
 
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

HaHa to the comment about my clothes falling off. The gui I have now ties on the sides although the area around my chest falls open quite often I am seriously thinking about adding a button there! It is quite annoying ( and yes I do wear a shirt under my gi!!) Thanks for the info. I was just sitting in my Math class and of corse my mind was not thinking of math... was cruising ebay for a bokkan and thouhgt hmmm do i need the Hakama yet or not. So now I am going to break out my old white belt and see if it still fits.. Will be interesting to see if I can still wrap it around twice or not.

We wrap twice in hap ki do to support the back etc. Hmm now that makes me wonder what kinda knot you use in the front... several styles do it several different ways. ...
oops there goes my mind again.!!

by the way I am in my Geology lab now looking at rock samples and my mind wanders from the rock name to aikido stuff...
Of quartz you always stand in Hamni ...stuff like that.
YOu mica want relax so you don't get hurt...
It would be gneiss to sit in seiza again
Aikido is the schist
chert happens..
ok enough of the geology jokes haha.
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Old 10-15-2010, 09:40 AM   #6
Lyle Laizure
 
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Too many variables to answer when to buy. Best to check with your sensei. There are a lot of cheaper hakama you can start with though.

Lyle Laizure
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Deru kugi wa uta reru
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:28 AM   #7
Janet Rosen
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

To secure gi top, rather than a button that can hurt your partner, usual solution is "modesty ties". Easiest way to do that is take a sneaker style shoelace, cut it in half, apply Fraycheck or Elmers type glue to cut ends to prevent raveling, and when dry securely stitch to each side of gi top at or above bustline.

Janet Rosen
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Old 10-15-2010, 10:40 AM   #8
WilliB
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Mary Simonsen wrote: View Post
HaHa to the comment about my clothes falling off. The gui I have now ties on the sides although the area around my chest falls open quite often I am seriously thinking about adding a button there!
That is a strange description. A karate gi without a belt is a pajama... I have never heard of Japanese MA looking like that. The way I know it, when someone forgets a belt, there is a whole locker room of lost and found stuff where one can borrow one.

And no, buttons dont belong on a gi. Women usually sew a little extra string on the top part of the gi to close it there. You get that as a matter of course in the shop when you buy a gi here... not where you live?
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Old 10-15-2010, 11:32 AM   #9
nuxie
 
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

We do not have any place to buy martial arts stuff around here. I have to order stuff online. I am planning on buying a judo gi anyway sometime this month. The idea of sewing on a shoestring is a good one and I will probably do that to the one I have now.

Thanks for all the suggestions once again.
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Old 10-15-2010, 12:23 PM   #10
WilliB
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Mary Simonsen wrote: View Post
We do not have any place to buy martial arts stuff around here. I have to order stuff online. I am planning on buying a judo gi anyway sometime this month. The idea of sewing on a shoestring is a good one and I will probably do that to the one I have now.

Thanks for all the suggestions once again.
Since there are hardly any throws from grabbing a lapel in Aikido, you don´t really need a judo gi. A karate gi is just fine, and probably better for women because of the added strings at the bottom.

Unless it is really cold in your place and you want the heavy fabric.
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:18 PM   #11
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Ask your sensei what is appropriate as far as hakama goes. If you are wearing a gi, you should probably be wearing a white about to go along with it since you just started. A typical square knot in the front seems how it is done in most dojos. Ask someone in your when you take your belt. Good luck!

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 10-15-2010, 01:47 PM   #12
Hellis
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

The final answer for you will be what your Sensei's standards are ??
They now vary from dojo to dojo.
A judogi will be too heavy, the Karate gi is cheaper and does the job fine.
We still follow the teaching of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei from the inception of Aikido to the UK in 1955. Only dan grades wear a Hakama..It is a special event when reaching dan grade to be presented with a black belt and a Hakama. That is how it was.
As I said ``things have changed `` we have not.

Henry Ellis
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Old 10-15-2010, 05:24 PM   #13
Chris Li
 
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Henry Ellis wrote: View Post
The final answer for you will be what your Sensei's standards are ??
They now vary from dojo to dojo.
A judogi will be too heavy, the Karate gi is cheaper and does the job fine.
We still follow the teaching of Kenshiro Abbe Sensei from the inception of Aikido to the UK in 1955. Only dan grades wear a Hakama..It is a special event when reaching dan grade to be presented with a black belt and a Hakama. That is how it was.
As I said ``things have changed `` we have not.

Henry Ellis
http://aikidoarticles.blogspot.com/
Of course, the post war custom of getting hakama when achieving a dan grade is itself a change from the customs of the Founder:

Quote:
Shigenobu Okumura Sensei, "Aikido Today Magazine" #41 wrote:
"When I was uchi deshi to O Sensei, everyone was required to wear a hakama for practice, beginning with the first time they stepped on the mat. There were no restrictions on the type of hakama you could wear then, so the dojo was a very colorful place. One saw hakama of all sorts, all colors and all qualities, from kendo hakama, to the striped hakama used in Japanese dance, to the costly silk hakama called sendai-hira. I imagine that some beginning student caught the devil for borrowing his grandfather's expensive hakama, meant to be worn only for special occasions and ceremonies, and wearing out its knees in suwariwaza practice.

I vividly remember the day that I forgot my hakama. I was preparing to step on the mat for practice, wearing only my dogi, when O Sensei stopped me. "Where is your hakama?" he demanded sternly. "What makes you think you can receive your teacher's instruction wearing nothing but your underwear? Have you no sense of propriety? You are obviously lacking the attitude and the etiquette necessary in one who pursues budo training. Go sit on the side and watch class!"

This was only the first of many scoldings I was to receive from O Sensei. However, my ignorance on this occasion prompted O Sensei to lecture his uchi deshi after class on the meaning of the hakama. He told us that the hakama was traditional garb for kobudo students and asked if any of us knew the reason for the seven pleats in the hakama.

"They symbolize the seven virtues of budo," O Sensei said. "These are jin (benevolence), gi (honor or justice), rei (courtesy and etiquette), chi (wisdom, intelligence), shin (sincerity), chu (loyalty), and koh (piety). We find these qualities in the distinguished samurai of the past. The hakama prompts us to reflect on the nature of true bushido. Wearing it symbolizes traditions that have been passed down to us from generation to generation. Aikido is born of the bushido spirit of Japan, and in our practice we must strive to polish the seven traditional virtues."

Currently, most Aikido dojo do not follow O Sensei's strict policy about wearing the hakama. Its meaning has degenerated from a symbol of traditional virtue to that of a status symbol for yudansha. I have traveled to many dojo in many nations. In many of the places where only the yudansha wear hakama, the yudansha have lost their humility. They think of the hakama as a prize for display, as the visible symbol of their superiority. This type of attitude makes the ceremony of bowing to O Sensei, with which we begin and end each class, a mockery of his memory and his art.

Worse still, in some dojo, women of kyu rank (and only the women) are required to wear hakama, supposedly to preserve their modesty. To me this is insulting and discriminatory to women Aikidoka. It is also insulting to male Aikidoka, for it assumes a low-mindedness on their part that has no place on the Aikido mat.

To see the hakama put to such petty use saddens me. It may seem a trivial issue to some people, but I remember very well the great importance that O Sensei placed on wearing hakama. I cannot dismiss the significance of this garment, and no one, I think, can dispute the great value of the virtues it symbolizes. In my dojo and its associated schools I encourage all students to wear hakama regardless of their rank or grade. (I do not require it before they have achieved their first grading, since beginners in the United States do not generally have Japanese grandfathers whose hakama they can borrow.) I feel that wearing the hakama and knowing its meaning, helps students to be aware of the spirit of O Sensei and keep alive his vision.

If we can allow the importance of the hakama to fade, perhaps we will begin to allow things fundamental to the spirit of Aikido to slip into oblivion as well. If, on the other hand, we are faithful to O Sensei's wishes regarding our practice dress, our spirits may be more faithful to the dream to which he dedicated his life."
Best,

Chris

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Old 10-15-2010, 05:52 PM   #14
nuxie
 
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

I really like that article you posted. I love tradition myself. I did not realize however that there were differnt kinds and that the pleats ment so much. Thanks so much forr the article. I love history.
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Old 10-15-2010, 06:54 PM   #15
Janet Rosen
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
Women usually sew a little extra string on the top part of the gi to close it there. You get that as a matter of course in the shop when you buy a gi here... not where you live?
In the States, no. All gi are sold as if for a man, no modesty ties as I've seen on women visiting from Japan. We are left to do it ourselves and most don't, opting to wear t-shirt underneath instead. Me, I don't like having extra layers n warm weather so always add ties as part of my routine dogi modifications.

Janet Rosen
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Old 10-16-2010, 01:40 AM   #16
WilliB
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
In the States, no. All gi are sold as if for a man, no modesty ties as I've seen on women visiting from Japan. We are left to do it ourselves and most don't, opting to wear t-shirt underneath instead. Me, I don't like having extra layers n warm weather so always add ties as part of my routine dogi modifications.
The t-shirt under dogi is not an alternative to the "modesty string" -- women do that anyway. And men too, in winter when it is cold.

Personally, I would not mind the ladies being naked under the gi, but frankly, I think that could get a bit distracting. :-)
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Old 10-16-2010, 04:41 AM   #17
Demetrio Cereijo
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Chris, what you quoted is not from Okumura Sensei but from Saotome Sensei.

Btw, does anyone know when "seven virtues of budo" became associated wtih joba hakama pleats?. It seems to me this is another "invented tradition".

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Old 10-16-2010, 06:15 AM   #18
shakou
 
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
Personally, I would not mind the ladies being naked under the gi, but frankly, I think that could get a bit distracting. :-)
An honest, if not risqué answer.....
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Old 10-16-2010, 07:22 AM   #19
nuxie
 
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Seriously? You don't wear a short under the gi ... Hahaha what would happen if there was a gi malfunction? Lmfa
so does this also mean you guys don't wear a cup?
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Old 10-16-2010, 08:54 AM   #20
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

I don't wear a cup, never have. Never saw the reason to in aikido. I have had sore nether regions when doing ko-shi-nage but that was from not spreading my legs, had I had a cup on it would have been a tad worse
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Old 10-16-2010, 09:15 AM   #21
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Just to answer your question thoug, I got my hakama at 5th kyu. We were encouraged to buy them as they do help with foot work and posture.
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:27 AM   #22
Janet Rosen
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
The t-shirt under dogi is not an alternative to the "modesty string" -- women do that anyway. And men too, in winter when it is cold.

Personally, I would not mind the ladies being naked under the gi, but frankly, I think that could get a bit distracting. :-)
I assure you there is nothing distracting about a properly tied gi over a sports bra.

Janet Rosen
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Old 10-16-2010, 10:53 AM   #23
Chris Li
 
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Quote:
Demetrio Cereijo wrote: View Post
Chris, what you quoted is not from Okumura Sensei but from Saotome Sensei.

Btw, does anyone know when "seven virtues of budo" became associated wtih joba hakama pleats?. It seems to me this is another "invented tradition".
You're right - the AIkido FAQ had the quote wrong. I don't know about the meanings, but if you search on "ŒÑ‚̐܂è--Ú" in Japanese it comes up with quite a few results on the meanings.

For example:

http://www.tostem-fc.jp/blog.php?pos...ost_eid=117982

Best,

Chris

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Old 10-16-2010, 11:38 AM   #24
amoeba
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Hm, my Judo Gi hold quite well (with a Hakama, before it was kinda more lose), so I wear just a sports bra and no "modesty string". Don't really see any reason for one, it very rarely opens up so far and if it does, my bra still looks quite modest - it covers quite a lot!
One of those:
http://www.dessousfashion.de/shop/Me...bh_extreme.jpg
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Old 10-16-2010, 12:12 PM   #25
Janet Rosen
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Re: When should I buy Hakama

Yep, I use Natori but any good, properly sized (as opposed to S/M/L) sports bra should obviate the need for a tshirt except if one needs extra layer for cool weather (I've been known to show up w/ thermal underwear n winter....)

Janet Rosen
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