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Old 09-23-2010, 03:19 AM   #1
David Yap
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Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

To the Nihon-go sensei,

What is the correct kanji to read "sen no sen"?

or or

I notice that the first and second character have been used on the Net, then I came upon the third.

Thanks in advance,

David Y
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Old 09-23-2010, 03:59 AM   #2
niall
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

It's the second one David, 先. 先の先 is sen no sen. It can also be read saki no saki. It's the same kanji as sen in sensei 先生.

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Old 09-29-2010, 12:22 PM   #3
David Yap
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
It's the second one David, 先. 先の先 is sen no sen. It can also be read saki no saki. It's the same kanji as sen in sensei 先生.
Thanks, Niall.
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:07 AM   #4
niall
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

David I used go no sen and sen no sen in my blog post this week. So thanks for the seeds of the idea (well thanks to the butterfly too).

http://www.aikiweb.com/blogs/moon-in...utterfly-4031/

Cheers, Niall

Last edited by niall : 10-08-2010 at 05:21 AM.

we can make our minds so like still water, and so live for a moment with a clearer, perhaps even with a fiercer life
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Old 10-08-2010, 05:40 AM   #5
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

This reminded me of an old interview with Osensei:

http://www.aiki-shuren-dojo.com/pdf/Go%20no%20sen.pdf

Quote:
B: Does that mean ou no sen? (also called go no sen; this term refers to a defensive response to an attack.)
O Sensei: Absolutely not. It is not a question of either sensen no sen or sen no sen.
Carl
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Old 10-09-2010, 05:39 AM   #6
David Yap
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

Quote:
Niall Matthews wrote: View Post
David I used go no sen and sen no sen in my blog post this week. So thanks for the seeds of the idea (well thanks to the butterfly too).

http://www.aikiweb.com/blogs/moon-in...utterfly-4031/

Cheers, Niall
Another good blog, Niall. Good job.

Cheers

David Y
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Old 10-09-2010, 06:11 AM   #7
David Yap
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

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Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
This reminded me of an old interview with Osensei:

http://www.aiki-shuren-dojo.com/pdf/Go%20no%20sen.pdf

Carl
Yes, I was thinking of this interview after doing a Shorinji Kempo technique named "Johakku Dori" (sic) last night. For the technique to work effortlessly, I need to manipulate uke's elbow once he grabbed my biceps. I looked at uke's broken posture and it reminded me of the postures of uke of Inoue hanshi during his seminars doing katatedori or just grabbing his index finger. The difference between SK and aikido is that we need to one or two extra steps to off-balance uke in SK, while uke's balance is taken upon engagement (atari) in aikido.

To manipulate...to control

Cheers.
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Old 05-30-2011, 01:08 PM   #8
Risu
 
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

From my understanding of the language and the concept, I believe that go no sen is 後の戦, sen no sen is 先の戦, and sensen no sen is 先々の戦. The first, go no sen, meaning "post-war", the second, sen no sen, meaning "battle ahead", and the third, sensen no sen, meaning "battle of the distant future." One of my friends described sensen no sen as taking action when you see intent, sen no sen as as the attack begins/ at the same time as the attack, and go no sen as after the attack has begun.
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Old 05-30-2011, 02:11 PM   #9
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

Quote:
Melissa Miller wrote: View Post
From my understanding of the language and the concept, I believe that go no sen is 後の戦, sen no sen is 先の戦, and sensen no sen is 先々の戦. The first, go no sen, meaning "post-war", the second, sen no sen, meaning "battle ahead", and the third, sensen no sen, meaning "battle of the distant future." One of my friends described sensen no sen as taking action when you see intent, sen no sen as as the attack begins/ at the same time as the attack, and go no sen as after the attack has begun.
Actually, it's 後の先、先の先、先々の先

The "war" kanji isn't used in this case.

Best,

Chris

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Old 05-30-2011, 03:33 PM   #10
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
...One of my friends described sensen no sen as taking action when you see intent, sen no sen as as the attack begins/ at the same time as the attack, and go no sen as after the attack has begun. Chris
Don't know if this is too random an association or if it actually applies, but I remember being told that regarding being attacked and counter-atttacking in Iaido there is before, there is before before, and then there is before before before. Beyond that it is all theory. If I might ask, what would the relevant kanji be for these concepts? Best regards,

Last edited by abraxis : 05-30-2011 at 03:37 PM.
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Old 05-31-2011, 12:16 AM   #11
Chris Li
 
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

Quote:
Rudy Ternbach wrote: View Post
Don't know if this is too random an association or if it actually applies, but I remember being told that regarding being attacked and counter-atttacking in Iaido there is before, there is before before, and then there is before before before. Beyond that it is all theory. If I might ask, what would the relevant kanji be for these concepts? Best regards,
Umm - the kanji were in the post that you quoted...

Anyway, try http://www.kendo-guide.com/terminology_sen.html

Best,

Chris

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Old 05-31-2011, 05:50 AM   #12
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Re: Correct kanji for Sen no Sen

Quote:
Christopher Li wrote: View Post
Umm - the kanji were in the post that you quoted...

Anyway, try http://www.kendo-guide.com/terminology_sen.html

Best,

Chris
Hi,

I was quoting from #9 above where Melissa writes and you reply but the kanji are not readable::

"From my understanding of the language and the concept, I believe that go no sen is Œのˆ, sen no sen is …ˆのˆ, and sensen no sen is …ˆ€…のˆ. The first, go no sen, meaning "post-war", the second, sen no sen, meaning "battle ahead", and the third, sensen no sen, meaning "battle of the distant future." One of my friends described sensen no sen as taking action when you see intent, sen no sen as as the attack begins/ at the same time as the attack, and go no sen as after the attack has begun."

"Actually, it's Œの…ˆ€…ˆの…ˆ€…ˆ€…の…ˆThe "war" kanji isn't used in this case."
----------------------------------------------------------
So, if I understand correctly, sen=saki=before when describing a sequence of events (martial or otherwise). I remember from Go that sen-te is described as having the lead or the right to choose first where to make the next play as opposed to being forced to answer your partner's move.

Many thanks for the link.

Best regards,

Rudy

Last edited by abraxis : 05-31-2011 at 06:04 AM.
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