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Old 09-13-2010, 02:50 AM   #51
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Peace

Quote:
Bjorn Saw wrote: View Post
Just putting your point of view across doesn't mean it's a conversation.[
I didn't mean to just put my point of view across. I meant to call in question your point of view.
Nearly every sentence in my first post ended with a "?".
(This is to me how we learn aikido: Questioning.)

Quote:
Did you ever listen to begin with or did you opt to oppose anything but your own beliefs?
I've gone long way by now. And I am still on my way.
What’s important to me: Everything changes. All the time.
(This is one aspect of aikido to me: It’s not static, it flows. It creates itself new all the time.)

So it is important to listen carefully to life, to be in accordance with it and with its changes.
It is important to listen to oneself, to ones own feelings, to be in accordance with oneself.
And sure it is important to listen to the people sharing ones life, near or far, to be able to live life together and not against one another.
Well, I listen a lot. And I changed a lot during life.
(Another aspect of aikido to me: Not “doing/producing” waza, but sensing, feeling, perceiving the opponent, an letting waza emerge.)

Quote:
But since you chose not to go down that road you may open your own thread arguing as much as you like ...
Normally I don't discuss my religious beliefs on the Internet. I live my spirituality and don’t preach it.
And when I start a thread, I'm aware that not everyone will share my points of view and that there might be contradiction.
(This is to me what Aikido is: Communication, dealing with contradiction on a physicall, corporal way.)

Quote:
When I join a conversation I do that without having the need to hold on to my views as opposed to the other.
This exactly is an attitude I deeply question:
If you are not willing or not able to hold on to your views, you should change them. If they don’t cary you on, why do “have” them?
On the other side: If you know what you do and why you do it, why aren't you able or willing to hold on to your points?
(This is important to me in Aikido: To be centered, to be closed, to be grounded, to be clear. – And to controll the opponent from ones center.)

Different persons can hold on to different truths. There is not only one and eternal truth. But every person has its own truth, every life has its own. Every life creates it’s own truth.
(In Aikido: There is not only me and my center. There also is the center of the opponent …)

Quote:
But when I open a conversation with a view of mine with a desire to share that view I find no interest in combating my perspective against another.
Ok true: If you're only looking for someone to share your opinions and not want to be questioned I’m wrong here.
I apoligize. I’m not used to this understanding of “owning” a post and not discussing opinions.

No more contradiction from me.

Carsten
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Old 09-13-2010, 04:16 AM   #52
Anita Dacanay
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Re: Peace

I was once part of a theatre troupe that presented at an "Arts and Peace" conference. In addition to performing a play, we conducted a short workshop about trying to define or describe "peace." It was very eye-opening indeed. We saw there, as we see in this thread, that there are many, many definitions of and perspectives on what we call "peace."

After calling myself a "peace activist" for years, I one day woke up to realize that I really knew nothing at all about peace. How could I go out into the world demanding a spiritual commodity like "peace" when I was not even sure what I myself really meant by that?

When I first encountered Aikido, it was so attractive to me because I thought that Aikido might help bring me closer to achieving, or at least defining that elusive quality - peace. To me the idea that is somewhat radical or unique is the concept that there is another choice beside the dualistic quandry of aggression versus passivity.

My intellectual understanding of the principles of Aikido leads me to envision or seek a state in which I can hold my own space, or express my own right to exist, without causing undo harm to others. My physical experience of Aikido supports this view. Aikido asks my body to move in a way that feels new and different, yet also natural and free, in a way that feels good and right to me. (Except in the moments when I fail miserably, of course.)

In the end, I don't know that the human race will ever agree on what "peace" is, let alone if we will all agree that that is what we should seek. But Aikido, like yoga, asks us to train our bodies and our beings to discover that place of peace for ourselves. Peace, I think, cannot be given to others. But I like to think that I can find it within myself; and that if I do, that that will be a good thing not only for me, but for others as well.
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Old 09-13-2010, 05:46 AM   #53
Gorgeous George
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Re: Peace

Quote:
Willi Brix wrote: View Post
Well, since you bring up the "Religion of Peace", it is also worth reminding that when discussing this, people should agree on the definition of the word. Otherwise, you talk past each other.

As Bassam Tibi points out:
"Both sides should acknowledge candidly that although they might use identical terms, these mean different things to each of them. The word peace, for example, implies to a Muslim the extension of the Dar al-Islam -- or House of Islam -- to the entire world. This is completely different from the Enlightenment concept of eternal peace that dominates Western thought. Only when the entire world is a Dar al-Islam will it be a Dar a-Salam, or House of Peace."
That's a very good point - and I didn't know that about islam; it reminds me of the socialist view of peace: that the entire world must become socialist in order for peace to come about. Given such a means, the Nazis could be said to be peaceful.

Where I see aikido differing from these perspectives is that you accept others - you accept the way things are, and do not resist: you yield to them; I think this is the same in prinicple as Zen, and the reason why so much is made of the similarity between the two. And for me, this is the correct approach: I spent so much time as a youth struggling to reconcile reality with ideals, and manufactured notions of what is just, what is right, and how things should be; I finally realised that regardless of the way things should be, they will always be whatever they are (viz., contrary to what makes sense/is seen to be just).

And this is where a lot of the reproaches against these religions - such as Christianity and islam - which have given us millennia of war, persecution, and genocide are aimed: at their lack of acceptance, and focus on denial and repression.
Peace through such a system seems a bleak prospect (especially if it is achieved via the eradication of 'unpeaceful' others/anybody different).
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:19 AM   #54
jonreading
 
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Re: Peace

I saw a reference to the "bu" kanji as laying down arms. Again, I am not sure that some of Aikido's [more sensitive?] interpretations may be entirely correct. I think the more militant interpretation of halting the spear may be a better interpretation of this kanji. And again, I think this term more closely implies a equilibrium of opposition, rather than a state of peace.
For example, [if] in order to prevent the rival lord from taking my land I must match his arms to create a state of equilibrium, [then] I may correctly interpret that this action prevented war. Is this peace? Arguably, yes. Would the rival lord take my land if I did not prevent him? Arguably, yes. I think harmony is a better word to describe this tenuous relationship, not peace. Or, in modern era, was the US really at peace with Russia? Arguably, yes. Did many of us go to bed at night fearful that one government may push the button that would evaporate the Earth. Yes. Is this really "peace"? I don't buy it; peace is something that should give us comfort and put our souls at rest, it is the absence of conflict [i.e. war]. Peace is the reconciliation of emotions that accompanies decisions which establish harmony, not an action itself. I don't like the idea that my peace is subject to your activities. I am looking for that [peaceful] state of being which is self-reliant, not dependent...
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Old 09-13-2010, 11:59 AM   #55
Gorgeous George
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Re: Peace

Quote:
Jon Reading wrote: View Post
Or, in modern era, was the US really at peace with Russia?
They were at war with Russia: it was called The Cold War.

According to Mitsugi Saotome:

'The kanji is made up of the character hoko which means "spear" and symbolizes weapons in general, and the character todomeru, which means "to stop". Thus bu means to stop weapons. [...] As the kanji implies, the original intent of bu was to stop war, to protect people from weapons.'

(Taken from The Principles of Aikido by Mitsugi Saotome; pp. 191-2)
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Old 09-20-2010, 07:10 PM   #56
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: Peace

http://www.aikipeaceweek.org/
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Old 09-20-2010, 11:39 PM   #57
trademark8806
 
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Re: Peace

Intresting threead .
I think peace is natureal in that I think we are bron with peace. However, it is kinda good we not always at peace other wise how would we ever desire to inprove anything.
Everyone thinks that peace is the sign of being mature porhaps luring how live with out peace always is the real sign of maturety.
Just a thought !

Best wishes ,
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Old 09-21-2010, 06:29 AM   #58
phitruong
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Re: Peace

Quote:
Tara Marsh wrote: View Post
I think peace is natureal in that I think we are bron with peace.
"we are born with peace"? you are kidding right? most of us were nice and cozy in our mother womb, then some bugger pulled us out and smacked the daylight out of us so that we were naked, bloody, kicking and screaming. personally, i thought that was a pretty violent way of going into the world. after the violent and disturbing way that we went into the world, things started to get worst. and for some of us, we will be naked, bloody, kicking and screaming on our way out of this world. well, at least the naked part is true, since the funeral home usually striped us naked to "prepare" us, and while they are at it, they will tattoo the inscription in big bold letters on our buttock "I was here!", which nobody ever flip the corpse over and check the buttock area.

nope, peace is not our nature, not by a long shot.
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Old 09-21-2010, 07:27 AM   #59
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: Peace

Everyone wants peace. It's just people want it on their own terms. We're just not very good at establishing accords that take everything into consideration.
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Old 09-22-2010, 09:46 PM   #60
Carl Thompson
 
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Re: Peace

Quote:
Just as 'wars begin in the minds of men', peace also begins in our minds. The same species who invented war is capable of inventing peace. The responsibility lies with each of us.
http://www.unesco.org/cpp/uk/declarations/seville.pdf
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Old 09-27-2010, 08:37 AM   #61
torbjornsaw
 
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Re: Peace

Dive within and open your self to the absolute nature of your spirit and if you're fortunate Peace might stream through you into this world touching and affecting those around.

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Old 09-27-2010, 08:44 AM   #62
WilliB
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Re: Peace

Quote:
Carl Thompson wrote: View Post
Everyone wants peace. It's just people want it on their own terms. We're just not very good at establishing accords that take everything into consideration.
If "everyone wants peace" depends on how you define "peace".
Be careful to project your ideas onto others.
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Old 09-27-2010, 09:43 AM   #63
aikishihan
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Re: Peace

Congratulations to you all!

I would not know where to start in describing my amazement at how much wisdom lies dormant in the majority, and the joy of seeing it expressed so eloquently by those on Aiki Web!

Peace may not be either given or imposed on others.
It was always meant to be shared amongst men and women of good will.

I envision Peace at work, not by avoiding or eliminating strife and conflict, but rather, like the majority of well intentioned posts on Aiki Web, by the intentional and wise ordering, examining, and yielding of divergent energies towards the common goals of empathetic tolerance, greater mutual understanding, and for benefits possible from achieving social balance.

I do not envision Peace as a destination, or a goal to be negotiated.
To me, it is a kind of "way station" along the road of dynamic discovery we are all destined to travel over our lifetimes.

The Love of Aikido, then, includes the humble acceptance of what is, along with the tranquil demeanor we may assume, as we resolutely strive, singly and in tandem, to co-exist in harmony.

Last edited by aikishihan : 09-27-2010 at 09:49 AM.
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