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Old 08-06-2010, 06:39 PM   #76
thisisnotreal
 
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Hi Mr. Barrish,
Do you mind a few questions?
I am not too clear on your post. Any chance you can interpret this? Or maybe give an example on how to do something with it that leads to internal power? What does 'catching the power of the kami with the whole body mean'?
Cheers,
Josh
 
Old 08-06-2010, 06:43 PM   #77
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Nice . . the competent strangers I'm hoping to find in some MMA gyms. The long time friends in martial arts all seem to want to kick my ass, too . . must be my glowing and nurturing personality . .
That's what a couple of us do...just go to BJJ and MMA gyms. It's nice to be my age and no one knows what to do with ya!
As for martial art friends...well seems everyone I know possesses a razor sharp wit, and for some strange reason they like to "hone it" on me.

I read your comments about organizations and fitting in.
We were talking about this the other day. How many of the best teachers I know have this attitude that they are just one of the boys. They don't even like to consider themselves teachers, they would rather hang out with the guys.

I hate doing seminars and being "That guy" I always wanted to beat up "that guy." So I run my seminars and dojo...in such a way that virtually everyone is equal.and on a first name basis.
No teachers, no ranking no B.S. just the skill you can show with your own two hands on an equal playing field.
Some prominent guys have told me that although training here is like graduate school for teachers, the process feels more like being a kid again and sneaking out of the dorm, hanging with the boys and laughing our butts off. It's what they used to love about the martial arts before it got all messy with obligations and having to be professional.
I do budo for fun, I make it fun.
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-06-2010 at 06:51 PM.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 09:54 PM   #78
Janet Rosen
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
...It's what they used to love about the martial arts before it got all messy with obligations and having to be professional.
I do budo for fun, I make it fun.
If we didn't love it and get a lot of joy out of it, why the heck do it?
Big mistake lots of people make - and not just in budo - is equating seriousness with pomposity (I'm recalling a priceless decades-old onstage exchange between Pete Seeger and a then young Arlo Guthrie in which the ever-twinkling-eyed Seeger delivers with an otherwise straight face "folk music is serious business")

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
 
Old 08-07-2010, 03:16 AM   #79
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
If we didn't love it and get a lot of joy out of it, why the heck do it?
Big mistake lots of people make - and not just in budo - is equating seriousness with pomposity
Hi Kiddo
How true. One of my favorite sayings.
"In lue of substance...you frequently find formality."
Some of the toughest, hardest, people I know...are a laugh a minute! Certain arts tend to attract those overly serious "think they're being Japanese" types more so than others.
Quote:
(I'm recalling a priceless decades-old onstage exchange between Pete Seeger and a then young Arlo Guthrie in which the ever-twinkling-eyed Seeger delivers with an otherwise straight face "folk music is serious business"
That is priceless, and I think, a lesson that stuck!
"Good mornin America how are ya..."

Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-07-2010 at 03:25 AM.
 
Old 08-07-2010, 04:33 AM   #80
Budd
 
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Geeze what kind of malcontents are posting at such ridiculous hours of the day, night and morning . . *peers shiftily from side to side* . . (okay, I have a newborn in the house, what's your excuse?)

Seriously, okay, not seriously (why start now in this thread) . . I don't play well with fake and overdone reishiki . . it smacks of cultism and roleplaying to me and rubs me the wrong way . . but sometimes you suck it up when there's goods to be had.

Over time though, the goods I've been looking for seem to have been more accessible (or easily spotted) in places where less attention is paid on the way something's folded or the angle of a bow or . . other trifling stuff that people tend to bring up because they want to put you in your place.
 
Old 08-07-2010, 09:31 AM   #81
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Lawrence Koichi Barrish wrote: View Post
Hello Aikido list members,

I hope everyone is really enjoying the Summer season with family and Aiki friends and also guarding their health during the high heat.

re: internal power, may I add a few words from the perspective of the Jinja Shinto. This is from the teaching of Sarutahiko Okami that Kaiso received from Tsubaki Okami Yashiro in Mie, Japan.
Thank you for your post I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I appreciate that now I can walk away from this thread more enriched in my knowledge and understanding. Thank you.

Last edited by Buck : 08-07-2010 at 09:35 AM.
 
Old 08-07-2010, 03:49 PM   #82
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Philip Burgess wrote: View Post
Thank you for your post I appreciate you sharing your knowledge. I appreciate that now I can walk away from this thread more enriched in my knowledge and understanding. Thank you.
Really?
Explain his post to us.
Dan
 
Old 08-07-2010, 06:43 PM   #83
Rev.K. Barrish
 
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Hello everyone, sorry for slow reply, Tsubaki America Jinja was very busy all day to receive sanpaisya, so this is my first chance to stop by the computer.

Mr. Burgess, thank you for your kind thinking.

Mr. Philipson, basic meaning of my post was to try to explain from the Jinja Shinto perspective MYO HO JIGEN JIN PEN JINTSURIKI

“妙法 Myoho: it is to understand Kannagara. Kannagara is the law of the Great Nature. We human beings can receive infinite courage, power and wisdom by resonating with and progressing in harmony with the ceaseless movement of the Great Nature.

示現 Jigen: Ji is to indicate and gen is to manifest. It mean to practice correctly the way of Kannagara. This means to respect the life you received from your ancestors and revere the kami (generative force of Nature), and to practice and hand down correctly Kyozon Kyoei/ co-existence and co-prosperity. This is the method to receive inspiration and power from Nature/Kami and to achieve good result.

神変 Jinpen: It means that, the Great Spirit of the kami enters into a body of those who are genuinely doing best and it’s effect actually appears in one’s action. 神 kami should be pronounced as Shin and 神力 should be pronounced as shinriki. When it’s divine power appears through the human body, the pronunciation should be as jinriki and an effect of Jinriki is called as 神通力, Jintsuriki. This change to a sonant from a resonance means actual embodiment of the kami power.

神通力 Jintsuriki: It does not sound as Shintsuriki. Sarutahiko Okami (Kami of KI, Aiki Oyagami/ancestor kami) is the kami with mysterious power of Jinpen and it is tha kami that manifests us infinitely this Jintsuriki. We seriously hope to become a person with Jointsuriki, who is capable of catching the power of the kami by a whole body.”

The basic meaning is that Aikido is a spiritual technology by which a human being can harmonize with and manifest the KI power of Great Nature.

Here is something written by my late teacher, Rev. Yukitaka Yamamoto who was the 96th generation Guji (High Priest) of Tsubaki Grand Shrine in Japan where and installed the Guardian Kami of Aikido in O’Sensei’s Iwama Aiki Jinja:

Master Morihei Ueshiba, the founder of Aikido, visited Tsubaki grand shrine in spring of 1958, guided by master Michio Hikitsuchi of Kumano Aikido dojo. As soon as master Ueshiba arrived at the shrine, he told me he would practice the misogi (a waterfall purification) at Konryu-Myojin's waterfall of Tsubaki Grand Shrine, and he practiced misogi with me.

Then he participated in a purification ceremony at Haraiden (the Shrine purification hall), and prayed at Honden (the main sanctuary). After I finished reciting the Norito (prayer) he chanted, "Su-U-Ah-Oh-Uh-Eh-Ih" then took the wooden sword and offered several Aikido moves to OhKami. At that time he said, "these are the basics of Aikido. Moves which unite the being with the great nature, all of them given by Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami." He continued, "Aikido is misogi. Misogi of ourselves. Aikido is the way of misogi itself, the way to become Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami and stand on the Ame- no-Ukihashi (the bridge between heaven and earth). In other words, the skills of misogi are Aiki, the way of uniting heaven and earth, the way of world peace, the way of trying to perfect humanity, the way of the Kami, the way of the universe.
He rested at my house and he told me and my father, "I have been given many teachings by Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami. OKami told me, 'By the work of Takehaya Susanowo no Mikoto, you will worship the Ame no Murakumo KuKamisamuhara Ryu O (Kami of Takemusu) and build an Aiki shrine and dojo.' Then I built the Aiki shrine and dojo in Iwama, Ibaragi prefecture in 1940. Since then I have been searching for the main shrine of Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami. I heard Tsubaki Grand Shrine is the main shrine of Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami, so I visited here today."
After that day master Ueshiba visited the shrine many times a year. When he came to the shrine in 1959, he said he would like to enshrine Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami at the Aiki shrine. In July 1960 I, instead of my father, took the Goshintai of Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami (statue of Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami) to the Aiki shrine in Iwama and performed the enshrinement ceremony. I went there with Mr. Shoji Gomi, who made the Goshintai, Mr. Akihide Isokai, and Mr. Masanori Fukuchi, shrine supporters. I remember that day: Master Ueshiba had great joy. It was a big ceremony with many participants, including master Kisshomaru Ueshiba of the Tokyo dojo.
After that he came to the shrine often. He planted a tree by the waterfall of the shrine. That tree remains there today.
I think master Ueshiba's words, "Aikido is misogi" are true. Human beings are born as children of the Kami and can become Kami. Misogi is the practice of uniting with the great nature and uniting with the universe. Of course humans have flesh and blood, but by practicing misogi we can elevate our spirits. At the same time, Aikido misogi is a way of harmonizing heaven and earth, a way of producing harmony and a way of uniting everything with the Kami. In other words, Aikido and misogi erase the mind that fights and and create a heart of harmony, a way of having a heart of Kami and a way of becoming the Kami of Takemusu.
Later, he had a trip to Hawaii. He went to attend the opening of an Aiki dojo. When he returned from Hawaii, he came to the shrine and reported his trip to Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami. He told me that he finished the misogi of Hawaii and showed me the key he had received as an honorary citizen of Honolulu.
In 1967 Mr. Akihide Isokai came to the shrine. At that time master Ueshiba said, "I can't go by myself already. At last the time has come. I would like to give Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami my address." So he sent mr. Isogai instead of himself.
Now I remember these things. These things remain with me, the faith of master Ueshiba and the Ueshiba who became Kami.
I would like to pray that the spirit of master Ueshiba shines on.
I am very glad that we enshrined him as one of the leaders at this Kototama ceremony.

Perhaps more helpful is this quote from Yamamoto Yukitaka Sendai Guji:

“Sarutahiko Okami, the main deity of Tsubaki Kannagara Jinja and Tsubaki OhKami Yashiro is the Kami (divine being) of guidance. The head shrine of Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami, located at the foot of the Mt. Takayama in the Suzuka Mountain Ridge, has been worshipped from ancient time. In 3 B.C., 2000 years ago, in the 27th year of the 11th Emperor Suinin, Tsubaki Grand Shrine was formally established. Therefore Tsubaki O Kami Yashiro is one of the oldest shrines existing in Japan.
When the founder of Aikido, Venerable Morihei Ueshiba, visited Tsubaki O Kami Yashiro - head shrine of Sarutahiko Okami - and made special prayer, the secret of waza was brought forth through the divine revelation. Since then day and night he practiced Misogi Shu Ho to reach the state of unity between the Kami (divine beings) and human beings.
Venerable Morihei Ueshiba cultivated spirituality so profoundly that he created Takemusu Aiki, and he taught the great power and wisdom of Sarutahiko-no-O-Kami to students of Aiki. Later he was able to show Jintsuriki, special divine power. Jintsuriki means that Shinriki - or the ki of the Great nature - is transformed to Jinriki or, actual power or waza, which will be delivered by man after being absorbed and accumulated by man's spirit, mind and body. “

My personal opinion that internal power is natural—when we mix the Ki of Earth, the Ki of Heaven and the Ki of human being in the hara, kokyu comes forth….to have the experience of Aiki we must first cease doing what is not Aiki….by sharpening our senses through Misogi Shuho we can discern what is genuine and what is superfluous/ obstructing. We can then discover for ourselves the meaning of MYO HO JIGEN JIN PEN JINTSURIKI.

Yoroshiku onegaishimasu
K. Barrish
America Tsubaki Okami Yashiro Kannushi
 
Old 08-07-2010, 11:30 PM   #84
Lorel Latorilla
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Once again Tim,

If you want to get some 'internal' power and want to know the path there, go with the guys that're often mentioned here. Dan, Mike, and Ark. If you're in New York, Sam Chin hangs out there. This will avoid all confusion about what bodyskill isl (I don't use the word 'internal power' anymore because it brings the freaks out).

Unless stated otherwise, all wisdom, follies, harshness, malice that may spring up from my writing are attributable only to me.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 06:39 AM   #85
dps
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Lawrence Koichi Barrish wrote: View Post

My personal opinion that internal power is natural—when we mix the Ki of Earth, the Ki of Heaven and the Ki of human being in the hara, kokyu comes forth….to have the experience of Aiki we must first cease doing what is not Aiki….by sharpening our senses through Misogi Shuho we can discern what is genuine and what is superfluous/ obstructing. We can then discover for ourselves the meaning of MYO HO JIGEN JIN PEN JINTSURIKI.

Yoroshiku onegaishimasu
K. Barrish
America Tsubaki Okami Yashiro Kannushi
Its not that hard to understand once you sweep away the leaves obscuring the path.

David
 
Old 08-08-2010, 07:53 AM   #86
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

The trouble arises when those who imagine they understand...turn out to be the debris that needs to be swept away so people can actually see the path to those who actually do have an understanding.

This is not anything new, people have talked about it in the aiki arts for years; having to wade through a never ending sea of ner-do-wells looking for teachers who actually have something. I remember dining with a group teachers who were recounting decades of training;
They thought so-and-so was great till they met so-and-so
Then later they met so-and-so who re-defined their understanding yet again..
As their understanding, skills, and exposure, increased, they looked back forlorn at where they had been doing for so many years.
Each one at that table had no idea....none whatsoever...of what they had just encountered even existed, and more so that it could be taught
For this reason alone, those who experience people with skills in this area dismiss the naysayers, out of hand. They remember all to well their own ignorance in struggling to define it with the "ordinary" things they had done for decades..

What defines it... past all definitions of it? It is instantly recognized as not being ordinary and also being able to do it.
It is so unusual and different that no one can hide from being classed as different from ordinary martial arts. And so unusual and different that after several years you can stop any Shihan in the aiki arts; Daito ryu or Aikido and be a handful for most anyone to deal with.

For that reason I default back to my comments to you or anyone else who makes claims that they get it..........
Show!

I say that because if you or anyone else isn't one of those people who will instantly stand out as unusually powerful, yet exceddingly soft, are not at a Shihan level of skill or better (no not ranked, just skill) and can go from weapons to empty hand seamlessly, then you need to ask yourself what value does your opinion have........at all?
I think that is exactly the type of understanding that has been the road block all along; the debris that needs to be swept away, so people can see a clear path?


Should you remain convinced that internal power is natural, and you always had it- where is it?
Of what value is it to anyone?
Seems pretty sketchy (or revealing) to be arguing for and advocating, something so powerful... that after all these years has led you and everyone else, to be so.....ordinary.
No thanks!
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-08-2010 at 08:04 AM.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 08:47 AM   #87
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

EDIT:
The path
I think another thought worth considering is that there is an ever growing number of those who were going along training, and who encountered various people with internal power and they could instantly tell the difference.
It used to be easy here to debate a single person or two. It is getting to sound a bit strange, almost like you are "out of touch" this late in the game to be doubting the difference. You now have hundreds of people, including shihan in the art who are not only advocating it, they are training it on a regular basis.
a) It's pretty weird to be doubting something so profound that after one encounter it changed the course of men with 40 years on the mat.
b) Weirder still to be arguing without having anything yourself, to offer as a counter point beside an empty theory that by all accounts has led to nothing out of the ordinary. Not that its a bad thing, but arguing for the ordinary,,,is in itself, simply strange..

Again, I would suggest it is probably not a good idea to just talk about Mike , Ark or myself, so often. It's really far bigger than that. Although I must admit, while there are those with skill...check out their students. If they don't have it....walk away.
Who cares about some guy who can "wow" you. We've all been down that road. If he hasn't made really good students, what makes you think you will be any different?
The one thing that might be exceptional (if at all) about the three talked about here so often, is that people are actively and actually being taught things that are making a difference in their Budo, to make THEM unusual in their arts.
I think that is a very important point. Far more important than loooong opinions and complicated mathmatics offered by people who by all acounts have nothing to offer but ordinary skills.
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-08-2010 at 08:52 AM.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 09:27 AM   #88
Lee Salzman
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Again, I would suggest it is probably not a good idea to just talk about Mike , Ark or myself, so often. It's really far bigger than that. Although I must admit, while there are those with skill...check out their students. If they don't have it....walk away.
Who cares about some guy who can "wow" you. We've all been down that road. If he hasn't made really good students, what makes you think you will be any different?
Easy to start a religion, hard to kill it. Aikido orthodoxy may be one, but Mike-Ark-Dan is its own religion, and listening to some of the hard-line gospel about either can become annoying. But in terms of voting with my feet, you know where my feet have been, so maybe I'm a hypocrite in that respect. There's other valuable stuff to learn out there, it doesn't fall neatly into preconceived categories of internal or external or most efficient or most powerful or ideal strategy, taught by people who can show ability, and who can reproduce that ability in students... in fighting venues. But if Mike-Ark-Dan is taken as the end-game, you miss it.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 09:35 AM   #89
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Lawrence Koichi Barrish wrote: View Post
Hello everyone, sorry for slow reply,
Yoroshiku onegaishimasu
K. Barrish
America Tsubaki Okami Yashiro Kannushi
Thank you Rev.Barrish once again for sharing your in depth knowledge and expertise expounding further this subject. It furthers my understanding of Aikido and its relationship to Shinto, as well as internal power. It also provides me more information I didn't know and will pursue in my continued understanding of Aikido.

Internal power being that of the Asian thought as applied to martial arts and their culture, is a wonderful concept that now I have a greater insight into. I am sure it will be helpful to others also.

Good stuff, thanks again.

Last edited by Buck : 08-08-2010 at 09:39 AM.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 10:01 AM   #90
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Really?
Explain his post to us.
Dan


Quote:
The trouble arises when those who imagine they understand...turn out to be the debris that needs to be swept away so people can actually see the path.....
You are So right on here.

Larry Novick
Head Instructor
ACE Aikido
 
Old 08-08-2010, 01:52 PM   #91
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Lee Salzman wrote: View Post
But if Mike-Ark-Dan is taken as the end-game, you miss it.
I think a lot of us still get things confused. There are two very separate things going on ... power and what to do with it (or how to use it). Mr. Salzman is correct in that cultivation of power is not the end game but is a means to the end of the higher goals of aikido (other arts too).

Having the power to make people do what you want (the founders definition of aiki via Adm. Takeshita diary) is a heavy burden and I'm sure the founder was all too aware (my presumption) of the dangers of power intoxication. This may be a heresy but I believe the founders own personal demons are what led him to immerse himself in the esoterica of shinto, kotodama, etc to obtain some measure of control over the demons so they would not use the power for evil.

What do the rest of us do to quell our inner demons once we come to find we have some exceptional power and can influence or outright control people and prevent that spiral into madness that history reveals time and again?

Power kept a secret grows but can become cancerous. Power shared does not diminish but further empowers.Knowledge truly is power and knowledge shared makes us all more powerful and can lead to greater affects for all. We can make nuclear bombs or we can make power plants - all using the same knowledge. It is simply a matter of the choice on how to use the power. What are you working on?

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 02:08 PM   #92
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Bah!
I think if anyone immerses themselves in the right types of relationships and give of themselves freely...all will take care of itself.
You want to really get down and be serious, instead of all this rubbish about demons and having too much power and all the other nonsense people add on to teachers that avoids some of the real issues?

Here are some real rubber-meets-the-road ideas to keep a teachers head out of his own backside
1. How about stop believing your own press.
2. How about refusing to be called a teacher.
3. How about when students go on and on about you, you tell them to shut up.
4. How about making fun of yourself at seminars and treat the lowest guy there as your equal.
5. How about actually teaching people aiki
6. How about actually being good at teaching or having the good sense and compassion to quit.
7. How about teaching students to do something, then teach them how to cancel it out
8. How about teaching every single person in the room what they need to be able to stop your technique?
9. How about opening your heart and making friends with your students.

Trust me, if you do all of those things, all of these so called "demons from having to much power" will run for the hills!

There are men who are extremely capable....dangerous even, who are gentle...men. Moral baggage, and ego is just that and has not one thing to do with capabilities. No one...not one, should accept that B.S. from anyone. Knowing a better way to cut wood, or a better way to dance, (and martial arts are no better, and sometimes less useful than that) is no excuse for some of the ourageous nonsense that sometimes happens. Lending a helping hand to a student... as your equal... is self-correcting behavior that will keep you firmly in your place...their equal!
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-08-2010 at 02:19 PM.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 02:28 PM   #93
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Bah!
I think if anyone immerses themselves in the right types of relationships and give of themselves freely...all will take care of itself.
As much as I wish and hope for this to be true in my experience it does not take care of itself but has to be actively worked on above and beyond the points otherwise made. Maybe I'm just lucky that way.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 02:31 PM   #94
Lee Salzman
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
I think a lot of us still get things confused. There are two very separate things going on ... power and what to do with it (or how to use it). Mr. Salzman is correct in that cultivation of power is not the end game but is a means to the end of the higher goals of aikido (other arts too).

Having the power to make people do what you want (the founders definition of aiki via Adm. Takeshita diary) is a heavy burden and I'm sure the founder was all too aware (my presumption) of the dangers of power intoxication. This may be a heresy but I believe the founders own personal demons are what led him to immerse himself in the esoterica of shinto, kotodama, etc to obtain some measure of control over the demons so they would not use the power for evil.

What do the rest of us do to quell our inner demons once we come to find we have some exceptional power and can influence or outright control people and prevent that spiral into madness that history reveals time and again?

Power kept a secret grows but can become cancerous. Power shared does not diminish but further empowers.Knowledge truly is power and knowledge shared makes us all more powerful and can lead to greater affects for all. We can make nuclear bombs or we can make power plants - all using the same knowledge. It is simply a matter of the choice on how to use the power. What are you working on?
I don't think I was trying to be that deep, and was just trying to echo something Dan said, so rather you mean to say Dan was correct. It's more like: if you're analytic about what performance is and what improvement is, then the best way doesn't obsolete better-but-not-best ways if they still get you above baseline, or may interact in other more interesting ways than when taken alone. If everyone trains the same material the same exact way, what fun is that? The public MMA gyms here in Vegas seem to be effective enough at teaching newbies how to badly injure eachother within a short amount of time, so I'm not too worried about power demons haunting me from what little I practice.

Last edited by Lee Salzman : 08-08-2010 at 02:41 PM.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 02:46 PM   #95
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Lee Salzman wrote: View Post
I don't think I was trying to be that deep, and was just trying to echo something Dan said, so rather you mean to say Dan was correct.
I often read too much into that which lays between the lines (we all have our special talents). The only quibble I have with Mr. Harden is how to insinuate myself into the barn.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
 
Old 08-08-2010, 02:50 PM   #96
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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As much as I wish and hope for this to be true in my experience it does not take care of itself but has to be actively worked on above and beyond the points otherwise made. Maybe I'm just lucky that way.
Well, I totally agree with that.
That's what I meant to imply. It is in the nature of all good relationships (provided they are with healthy people) that if everyone remains as equals, things tend to be self-correcting. Sort of like the big shot movie star coming home to thanksgiving and Christmas.

Good friends and family and making training open and friendly can prevent a lot of potential craziness. I should have added one more item to the teacher list

1. Demand they go out and train with others...hopefully someone better than yourself..in what ever.

That will also help them...keep you on your toes and in the proper focus. No finer words are better than "Well you're good ...but!"
Cheers
Dan
 
Old 08-08-2010, 02:58 PM   #97
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
I often read too much into that which lays between the lines (we all have our special talents). The only quibble I have with Mr. Harden is how to insinuate myself into the barn.
You know about the Barn....?
The barn I sort of keep as a workshop for a group of us to all progressively suck at what we do...some more so than others?
For other training though, just ask, and please call me Dan.
I am doing seminars this fall and winter in different places though. I have a list of people I am going to inform when I have things scheduled. Shoot me a P.M. and I will put you on the list.
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-08-2010 at 03:08 PM.
 
Old 08-09-2010, 11:33 AM   #98
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Well and this discussion has taken an interesting turn and I think is speaking more towards training for "power" and the ways people can take their power (both "perceived" and "achieved") and use it to lord over others . . whereas the format Dan mentions I think goes a long way to cutting through that BS (and was exactly my experience when I got to play in his barn for an afternoon a few years back).

In my experience, Mike's workshops engender that feeling, too, being somewhat formatted for people interested in a tradecraft approaching comparative methodologies towards desired results rather than martial arts gurudom. I haven't gotten to go to one of Ark's, yet, so can't speak towards it but the descriptions are encouraging.

And yet, I also agree, we need to somewhat move past those three guys in terms of discussion and onto who's "getting it"? Because the rub can be just as much in transmission as in material - what are the guys doing post work-shop and how are you vetting if you are actually getting anywhere versus the "superpowers in your head" syndrome?

Those working on "this stuff" within a martial art - do you find that the "budo" conventions work towards favorably encouraging the development and personal ownership of this kind of training? Are you having to keep it as it's own thing or does it integrate right back into what you're doing?

I think those conversations are as valid towards the "path to internal power" as "where to go to get it" . . for myself, the next couple years are going to be pretty critical in terms of how my progress plays in the less-structured spaces (MMA) as well as how things feel when getting hands on some of the bigger dogs in workshops (most likely opportunities for hands-on time with more "name" Chinese teachers, hopefully).

When I do speak to it, I'm going to try to keep the discussion going according to where my failings might be as well as my successes. Partially because I don't have a dog in trying to be a "tough guy" (validated that as much as I cared to in my 20s), but I am really interested in figuring out for myself how much of this is something I have to burn into myself and pressure test - versus how much can I work out a repeatable methodology that others (part of this theoretical study group I keep threatening to start) may benefit from.

So, Dan (naming you since we've been going back and forth, here) and others - that's where it's coming from when I seem to challenge certain opinions and assumptions - definitely not from a place of perceived authority - but another guy working it out and when in a better position to offer something of value - hopefully give back so some others have an alternative approach to their own training as well.

Though if there are thread drift and digressions of silliness to be had, I will likely partake . . I like me some silly.
 
Old 08-09-2010, 12:04 PM   #99
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Hi Budd
The next group?.........I am on hundreds of people.
Hence my focus on supporting groups...through a process. I could be out doing a whole bunchof show and tell seminars, but I'm just not into that. I've said it before and I'll say it again. Of the big three talked about here most often. I'm the one with the longest history of students who've got not only power...but aiki...and martial skills in using it. I've been doing this a long time and the vetting has worked well in many different venues.
It takes time, but I think Arks guys are delivering...so are some of mine.
cheers
Dan
 
Old 08-09-2010, 01:08 PM   #100
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Dan, I can only speak to my direct experience in that regard, which ain't a whole lot. I can genuinely say that I would love to get hands on time with people that you've worked with who are really demonstrating skill in aiki and martial skill in its application.
 

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