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Old 08-05-2010, 11:49 AM   #51
Patrick Hutchinson
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Ok Budd, now I understand why your affiliation is listed as "currently solo"...
 
Old 08-05-2010, 12:03 PM   #52
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Ok Budd, now I understand why your affiliation is listed as "currently solo"...
I know, the button pushing and odd humor (and other) are best done through solo training . .
 
Old 08-05-2010, 12:11 PM   #53
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Ok Budd, now I understand why your affiliation is listed as "currently solo"...
I know, the button pushing and odd humor (and other) are best done through solo training . . lots and lots of solo training. Mattafact, I'm taking a break from dojos altogether and the next place is likely just gonna be a MMA gym for a spell. Then we'll see if I get motivated to start my own group.
 
Old 08-05-2010, 12:13 PM   #54
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

We are just addressing non....sense, with nonsense.

I knew a good teacher who ended years...even decades of flat out B.S. with one word...."show!"...it has been my experience so far...that very, very, few can. Hence the outrageous objections. It's all rather transparent.
Dan
 
Old 08-05-2010, 01:23 PM   #55
Lee Salzman
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
We are just addressing non....sense, with nonsense.

I knew a good teacher who ended years...even decades of flat out B.S. with one word...."show!"...it has been my experience so far...that very, very, few can. Hence the outrageous objections. It's all rather transparent.
Dan
Dangerous precedent, though, fighting noise with noise, since both sides can escalate that game, right or wrong, and since people will just entirely tune out of reading anything anymore. If that's the goal, to get people to stop reading threads on aikiweb, then maybe it is working. Pretty much the entire reason I stopped reading RSF and just check the seminar announcements there at best.

Poor original poster just wanted some info, and I'd hope the average aikiweb poster is smart enough to distinguish bullshido from relevant advice. New-age hocus pocus or brainiac wankery is obvious. How many people in this thread bothered to refer the guy to places where he could see the people doing the showing?

Last edited by Lee Salzman : 08-05-2010 at 01:31 PM.
 
Old 08-05-2010, 01:38 PM   #56
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

I gave the best advice I could give the fellow, which is "Go see what people are doing" ..
 
Old 08-05-2010, 02:14 PM   #57
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
The internal power of trees enervates the planet and all the other shining beings in ways others do not!
I'm overcome I have to hug my willow.
Dan
Channeling the Lorax?

Everyone knows that viruses, bacteria and fungus are the repository of internal power (sometimes confused with midicloriains). Those puss filled swellings are the physical manifestations of uncontrolled and impure power transfers from the microscopic to the macroscopic realm. The only one true method for controlled transfer of power spanning the many realms is by maintaining the purity of our precious bodily fluids (rain water and pure grain alcohol help tremendously - hot sake is a close second). The practice of misogi is precisely the purification and smooth flow of the precious bodily fluids to enable and ensure efficient power transfer across the many realms. Duh.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
 
Old 08-05-2010, 03:02 PM   #58
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Channeling the Lorax?

Everyone knows that viruses, bacteria and fungus are the repository of internal power (sometimes confused with midicloriains). Those puss filled swellings are the physical manifestations of uncontrolled and impure power transfers from the microscopic to the macroscopic realm. The only one true method for controlled transfer of power spanning the many realms is by maintaining the purity of our precious bodily fluids (rain water and pure grain alcohol help tremendously - hot sake is a close second). The practice of misogi is precisely the purification and smooth flow of the precious bodily fluids to enable and ensure efficient power transfer across the many realms. Duh.
Don't you get an added chi boost when you add flouride to the fluid? Though there is a risk of nuclear impacts when too much is applied improperly to the military mind.
 
Old 08-05-2010, 05:17 PM   #59
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
add flouride? nuclear
Actually adding fluoride (SnF) to the water is a waste (direct application of flouride to the teeth is one thing). I prefer my flouride in the form of liquid thorium + salt in a nuclear reactor . I would not add that to the water either... especially since none is required. But this is more along the lines of external power and not relevant to the OP.

Not to mention the Sn+ ions from the dissociation of SnF in the blood stream tends to occlude the Ca++ ion channels in cells (thus reducing energy flow efficiency) as well as F- occluding NO- receptors in the brain which leads to distorted proprioceptive sensations that also reduces the efficiency of power expression. All part of the communist conspiracy to misdirect the western understanding of internal power as well as the corruption of our precious bodily fluids. See, science does help explain IP/IS/Aiki, etc - no shear required!

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
 
Old 08-05-2010, 06:07 PM   #60
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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OK.. So I'm getting inspired by all that 'internal power' stuff.

Whatever it is, I'm open to seeking it out and experimenting with whatever I find, and that's exactly why I've made this thread.

With that said, I'm curious as to what kinds of cultivating methods are out there, what they teach, what they do, and why.
So I'd love some feedback on those things. Just to get some reference materials as to what training opportunities I should look out for, what the specific parts in my own training are that I should look out for, and just to get a broad overview of what this thing really is, what it can do, and why I should look out for it.

Also, since I do know about the IHTBF rule, you won't need to point it out to me . I'm not here to ask for the nitty-gritty details about this internal power stuff because I don't have an illusion about figuring this stuff out for myself. I will get round to feeling it.

As for the final question: what practice has benefitted you personally? What things should I look out for? What things should I experiment with and seek out, in your opinion? And, of course, why?

Now, I realize this may be a bit much to answer, so feel free to leave out whatever question you want...
...except for the 'why'-questions I'd say those are more than essential

Sincerely yours,

TB
Tim,

I believe some of us owe you an apology for the obvious hijacking of your thread. Your original post has some good questions and came across as sincere - so, for my part, I apologize for the direction it has gone.

On the serious side, your best option for finding answers to your questions is to search the archives here for info on aiki and Internal skills - you will find tons of it. Next you need to intuitively shift through the BS and real stuff and start to formulate your own thoughts on what is going on, Then, as been subtly as well as bluntly pointed out, you need to get with those that have experience in this area to learn more - there is just no internet learning of this stuff.

After you went through the archive, you will have a good idea of who you may want to learn more from - and at that point, seek out these individuals privately through a PM; you probably will get more detail that way since an answer to a public post will be watered down to help minimize the chance of an attack from those of a dissimilar IT camp, etc. - after you read the archives, you will know what I mean here

Anyway, sorry for the derailment of your thread and good luck in your quest for more knowledge and experience in aiki.

Greg
 
Old 08-05-2010, 06:38 PM   #61
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
I believe some of us owe you an apology for the obvious hijacking of your thread. ...search the archives
Here are a few ... also look up the baseline skills thread.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16994
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17902
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16713
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17018
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16870
http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=16503

As you may come to find out hijacks and drift are frequent so don't feel as though anyone has been singled out for special treatment (except for those obviously that have been).

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 06:56 AM   #62
dps
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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David Skaggs wrote: View Post
All paths lead to internal power. It is with you all the time.

Read what is the current research into the inner workings of the human body.

http://www.anatomytrains.com/ is a good place to start.

David
Also www.floatingbones.com,
http://floatingbones.com/?p=28#more-28.

David
 
Old 08-06-2010, 07:38 AM   #63
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
David Skaggs wrote: View Post
David Skaggs wrote:
All paths lead to internal power. It is with you all the time.

Read what is the current research into the inner workings of the human body.
http://www.anatomytrains.com/ is a good place to start.

Also www.floatingbones.com,
http://floatingbones.com/?p=28#more-28.

David
David
I thought this might help you on your journey to discovering IP/Aiki.

http://www.mindnmuscle.com/

Think of it like a favor in kind for the accuracy with which you are leading others in their own search. May you get as much out of it as the other material you keep pointing everyone to.
Good luck in your training. Send us before and after pictures.
And remember, David...
"All paths lead to internal power, it's with you all the time..."
"All paths lead to internal power, it's with you all the time..."
"All paths lead to internal power, it's with you all the time..."
Don't forget to click your heels three times!
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-06-2010 at 07:42 AM.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 07:58 AM   #64
Budd
 
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Dammit, no fair making me snort coffee through my nose so early!!

Good points from Greg and Rob on thread drift and circling back . . I think not taking yourself too seriously does help quite a bit with lots of things (IS/IP, aiki, life, etc.) . . Dan, I think if you click your heels three times while chanting "All paths lead to internal power" . . a house is gonna fall on you from out of the sky . .

The other thing worth mentioning is that of those practicing "this stuff", there are different emphases . . a number of people will say, "it ain't all the same" . . I agree with that, but I also refuse to put too much value judgement on what path might be right for you or others as that's an individual decision made with the best info you can get access to. Really, getting anywhere with "this stuff" requires a tremendous amount of drive and intelligence (from the "figuring it out" standpoint).

Just a couple of quick examples . . there's people working on IS as a discrete skill and then applying it back to their "base" martial art. There's others that get the IS as the fundamental core of their martial art, but it's layered with the forms and shapes of said art. I am somewhat jaded right now regarding how well any "methodology" actually works for some versus others. I keep thinking that there's so much on the individual (talent, drive, etc.) in getting this skillset - beyond just having access to the information.

Time will tell, though, since more and more people are openly (or on the side, within more public organizations) working on "this stuff". My own little quest will be seeing how well my "stuff" fits back into the MMA paradigm . . just for fun. Otherwise, as we keep repeating - give just a little weight to what you read on the internet - GO SEE WHAT PEOPLE ARE DOING. If they can't answer a simple "SHOW ME" test, then you are best moving on.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 08:14 AM   #65
mickeygelum
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Before and after pictures...WOW....

While we are bringing up interesting reads...this is quite enlightening, specifically post #30 of the thread.

http://e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35461&page=2

Quote:
Think of it like a favor in kind for the accuracy with which you are leading others in their own search. May you get as much out of it as the other material you keep pointing everyone to.
I could have not said it better, Dan...Thank you very much!

Cheers!
 
Old 08-06-2010, 08:56 AM   #66
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

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Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
Before and after pictures...WOW....
While we are bringing up interesting reads...this is quite enlightening, specifically post #30 of the thread.

http://e-budo.com/forum/showthread.php?t=35461&page=2
I could have not said it better, Dan...Thank you very much!

Cheers!
You are very welcome, It's really rather wonderful how that all panned out, I have some really great friends in the right places, that tend to mitigate nonsense.
What's that old saying "Sit by the river long enough and you will see the bodies of your enemies float by" It's great to not even have to lift a hand.... Budo can be great ya know?

I must say personally I found post #23 more interesting. I wonder why...in all of his experiences that person never felt anyone he was familiar with or affiliated with ever display anything that equaled what he found?
Why do you think that is?

Its good you brought that thread up though.
Isn't it great that the internet can let honest evaluation of people's skills trump the back door dealing of small minded teachers?
In the old days we only had word-of-mouth at the dojo, or maybe in a magazine. These days no one can hide. It's pretty cool when hundreds of people from MMA to JMA to ICMA can all talk about their experiences with certain people, and there is not one credible retort that can be offered, Back biting and petty behavior tends to get outed in open discussions ya know?
I think it's a great day when web sites can offer so much personal testimony by a wide range of credible people to help others on their own search.

Case in point here: IP/aiki and real power.
It's just very....very hard to find people with real power and skill. It's why some people are no longer affiliated with certain organizations, they've found people better than the best they had to offer, others just found a better way to train and don't want to be held back by teachers with closed minds and limited skill. Personally, I prefer people stay in their organizations as they learn IP/aiki. I continue to ask the various teachers that I am involved with to stay in their arts and teach their students and to overall improve the arts. It's always troubling to teach students and see teachers not be able to handle honest comparisons though. I have seen it more than a few times. I think its to be expected though; egos are a fragile thing.
It was nice to hear someone like Chiba and Saotome offer support to their students, even after the students told them this was a superior method to learn aiki. Now there...is confidence and an open mind! I am sure that others are setting good examples as well.
Anyway, always good to read your thoughts, I hope things end as well for you as they have for others who share your mindset. Get to the gym and keep going strong. Good luck in your training.

Remember the admonition "What goes round, comes round...." Helping others and being straight-up is a good way to go, it's worked out VERY well for me.
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-06-2010 at 09:07 AM.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 09:24 AM   #67
Buck
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Out of respect for the original poster asking a question, and because this thread has gone on a vacation, I have a comment about the topic.
I am guessing the original poster is has left the thread. Here it is anyway.

Many of us believe in obtaining knowledge through research, and critical thinking. A huge part of modern advancement is a result of research and critical thinking. And there is a model to do just that. A good approach to finding paths, if you see obtaining internal power as an object, the researching the history is vital.

The Chinese really coined this idea of internal and external power based on the model the world works in of polar opposites, which is expressed as yin and yang. And internal power is a term they coined to express, in my opinion, physics principles applied to their CMA. For example, many ancient Chinese authors and Japanese authors readily recognized such principles of physics to be effective, and efficient. That is demonstrated in the Tai Chi Classics, and has been attributed to the Chinese philosopher Lao Tzu. Mimamoto Mushishi noted and wrote about using internal power, and it's definition. All of which can be seen as physics, which are not readily recognized. Hence are identified as"internal."

With this in mind, if one holds to the idea that internal power is an object, then a path to internal power is research. A good place to start always is with the recognized experts. Martial arts is hard to identify a qualified expert as there are few institutions that take martial arts enough to award research degrees. Most people are self proclaimed experts in this regard. Not all self claimed experts are full of it. The ones full of it really out number those who aren't. Point being it is a mine field that takes sometime and effort to find the one's who are really in the "know." And as I said before, if it is possible, start a search the questions by getting recommendations within the Chinese community. Go to Tai Chi tournaments and hang out talk to people in understanding what the term internal arts means and doesn't mean, research it. This can lead to who are the good resources to answer any questions.

Also try Tai Chi schools, but major caveat is there are allot hokey people out there teaching some really weird stuff they call internal. They are usually selling you really hard, trying to convince internal arts are they way they see it, and their students are beyond reasonable and demonstrate fanaticism. And avoid those "colorful,"fanatical and strong opinionated ego personalities. Humble, and down to earth personalities who are not trying to sell you some, or are overly evangelical, or trying to suck you into their B.S., is an ear mark that you will get, at worse, some decent information.

Also of course, pedigree helps as well, but again it is easy to talk and hard to prove. I have had guys tell me they are the 35th grandmaster of _______. They aren't. So these people of course are just as unreliable in their information. Even though they might have some nuggets of accurate and solid information, but that is usually bait to attract students who will worship them and feed their egos. But you will get those nuggets anyway when taking to someone who is in the know, and doesn't lie, patchworks their background or self proclaimed.

When researching internal power and all that it entails isn't easy and you have to sift through allot of crappy people to get to a decent one who will give you good information. But also it helps to read up on the subject, books good and bad, to help you in your research.

This has been my experience and I hope by sharing it will be helpful.

Last edited by Buck : 08-06-2010 at 09:35 AM.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 10:01 AM   #68
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote: View Post
Dammit, no fair making me snort coffee through my nose so early!!

Good points from Greg and Rob on thread drift and circling back . . I think not taking yourself too seriously does help quite a bit with lots of things (IS/IP, aiki, life, etc.) . . Dan, I think if you click your heels three times while chanting "All paths lead to internal power" . . a house is gonna fall on you from out of the sky . .
Reading some of this stuff is like watching good "stand-ups" on You Tube idn't it? It is really funny seeing people play their own "straight man" and not even know as it's happening.

Quote:
The other thing worth mentioning is that of those practicing "this stuff", there are different emphases . . a number of people will say, "it ain't all the same" . . I agree with that, but I also refuse to put too much value judgement on what path might be right for you or others as that's an individual decision made with the best info you can get access to. Really, getting anywhere with "this stuff" requires a tremendous amount of drive and intelligence (from the "figuring it out" standpoint).

Just a couple of quick examples . . there's people working on IS as a discrete skill and then applying it back to their "base" martial art. There's others that get the IS as the fundamental core of their martial art, but it's layered with the forms and shapes of said art. I am somewhat jaded right now regarding how well any "methodology" actually works for some versus others. I keep thinking that there's so much on the individual (talent, drive, etc.) in getting this skillset - beyond just having access to the information.

Time will tell, though, since more and more people are openly (or on the side, within more public organizations) working on "this stuff". My own little quest will be seeing how well my "stuff" fits back into the MMA paradigm . . just for fun. Otherwise, as we keep repeating - give just a little weight to what you read on the internet - GO SEE WHAT PEOPLE ARE DOING. If they can't answer a simple "SHOW ME" test, then you are best moving on.
Good points.
Personally, I'm for the MMA and modern weapons side of things, but there are some things worth pointing out between old and new. There is a universality to certain methods that will transfer from classical weapons, to empty hand, to various aiki arts....that can go on to modern combatives and modern weapons. Not all methods can do that and not everyone can even explain why they can't. I look at certain methods and the way they are training their body and you simply cannot move that way seemlessly between various venues. It just isn't open for discussion. There are ways to move the body that are internal that are NOT the same and are NOT universal in external expression.
I had this discussion recently with someone doing spear shaking who thought it was supposed to always be this particular store and release method he learned. I showed him something totally different that still generated power out to the tip, but then had it reverse on itself and go in an opposite direction so fast he had no chance. I later used the same body method to cut right through in a twin stick movement...there was nothing he could do to stop it from happening. he was just open to attacks no matter how "hard" he tried to block. It was not obvious how it was happening and what was causing it, and when I said the essence was in how I was moving with the spear he was still not getting it, when I showed the body changes,,,he got that, but could not reproduce it or join it with the external movements that produced the spirals in the sticks. It takes a re-education of how you move

Overall, if someone is not conversant in traditional weapons, jujutsu, MMA and modern weapons, than I'm not really interested in their opinions on what is the best methodology to use in all those venues. I will listen to their methods, feel them, talk shop, but I have seen and felt true internal experts not be able to handle certain things enough times that I look at them the same way I look at Daito ryu and Aikido "experts." that is that by staying in their arts, they have limited their own development and views -to those arts. Not really a bad thing, but it just...is what it is.
So when some argue that training for whole body connection is all the same, I just say. "No...it isn't."
Cheers
Dan
 
Old 08-06-2010, 10:24 AM   #69
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Oh and the last thing, I forgot to mention, understand that "internal____" is an abstract term, that you will not get a specific universal definition outside of the general notion it is something that goes readily unnoticed that elicits a desired result. Knowing what external is helps define internal. And it is my feeling the term internal came about as I said before, in relation to Chi; the Chinese observation of physics explained in their language. Ch being indicated by it's character that depicts a process of steam coming from a boiling pot of water moving the lid. Then it tends to get exponentialy more complicated, complex with changes, layered, and with other influences ornamenting the subject as time when on in the Chinese arts. Because it is an abstract idea.

"Internal ____" as we speak of them in martial arts origins are Chinese and the concept has been around for thousands of years, practiced by millions over those thousands of years. Volumes of have been written about it. There is nothing to discover or new information at this point in time, all of what we hear today is recycled information colored in many tints and hues. When dealing with the internal stuff, understand it is all been done, but like may things each new generation rediscovers what the previous generations have mastered.

I am not saying "internal ______" is or isn't anything. I am saying it's like fire. Not because Musashi put "internal" processes in his book of fire. Which I think was for a reason to how he seen internal applications. But because fire is seductive. When anything is seductive you have to be careful not to get burned.

Last edited by Buck : 08-06-2010 at 10:31 AM.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 11:35 AM   #70
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Reading some of this stuff is like watching good "stand-ups" on You Tube idn't it? It is really funny seeing people play their own "straight man" and not even know as it's happening.
Yeah, I just take it with a grain or two most times and don't get too worked up either way. Sometimes, I am surprised that people feel the need to comment when clearly they haven't a clue, but for the most part I can give it the weight it deserves in retention.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Good points.
Personally, I'm for the MMA and modern weapons side of things, but there are some things worth pointing out between old and new. There is a universality to certain methods that will transfer from classical weapons, to empty hand, to various aiki arts....that can go on to modern combatives and modern weapons. Not all methods can do that and not everyone can even explain why they can't. I look at certain methods and the way they are training their body and you simply cannot move that way seemlessly between various venues. It just isn't open for discussion. There are ways to move the body that are internal that are NOT the same and are NOT universal in external expression.
I hear you. For me it comes back to what your goals are and what is available AND what gives you some measurable results. I think people are quick to build belief systems based on limited information combined with bits of what they're predisposed to believe already - it's just human nature. It gets harder and harder to apply objective measurement where yourself is concerned (at least it is for me). So you do the best you can. I enjoyed the bit of classical weapons I had involvement with, but found too much "other" baggage that competed with other parts of life.

As for the "isn't open for discussion", I can't speak to it because I'm not credible enough to offer a yay/nay so won't even try. And from my hands on time with you, you are credible enough that I'd at least want to see what you're talking about in person before really having an opinion about it one way or another.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I had this discussion recently with someone doing spear shaking who thought it was supposed to always be this particular store and release method he learned. I showed him something totally different that still generated power out to the tip, but then had it reverse on itself and go in an opposite direction so fast he had no chance. I later used the same body method to cut right through in a twin stick movement...there was nothing he could do to stop it from happening. he was just open to attacks no matter how "hard" he tried to block. It was not obvious how it was happening and what was causing it, and when I said the essence was in how I was moving with the spear he was still not getting it, when I showed the body changes,,,he got that, but could not reproduce it or join it with the external movements that produced the spirals in the sticks. It takes a re-education of how you move
No argument there in terms of it being a combination of re-wiring how the body moves - AS WELL as a methodology for applying those movements into a combative paradigm. I think that's at the heart of what you're saying, that there's a better way to combine a number of things. I say, cool, let's vet it out some more and see.

I think part of the issue is that some people work on "internal" stuff solely through the exercises they're doing (pole shaking, receiving pushes, etc.) and specifically aren't looking at the bigger picture of changing the body so that stuff just happens. What I struggle with now is the appropriate layers of testing to make sure the body is conditioned and adapting accordingly - hence my decision to say, "Eff it, I'll just go fight with it and see what happens" . .

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
Overall, if someone is not conversant in traditional weapons, jujutsu, MMA and modern weapons, than I'm not really interested in their opinions on what is the best methodology to use in all those venues. I will listen to their methods, feel them, talk shop, but I have seen and felt true internal experts not be able to handle certain things enough times that I look at them the same way I look at Daito ryu and Aikido "experts." that is that by staying in their arts, they have limited their own development and views -to those arts. Not really a bad thing, but it just...is what it is.
So when some argue that training for whole body connection is all the same, I just say. "No...it isn't."
Cheers
Dan
I dunno, your first sentence can straddle the edge of, "If someone doesn't understand exactly what I do and why I do it" versus "If someone doesn't agree with me" to the point of excluding good input (but hey, you need to apply filters somewhere) . . I think being credibly challenged on ideas and perspectives is a very good thing in reasonable doses.

But then to your other point regarding taking things back to organizations, etc. I just don't seem to play well in them, so will have to be hoofing it to do my own vetting anyways. All bums on the budo bus, right?

As for whether or not training whole body connection all being the same or not - logically it would not be as even different practitioners of the same stuffs have different feels. The simple version for IS seems to be whether or not 1) You have an unusual form of strength/power 2) How do you train it 3) How do you apply it . . beyond that, it gets even more individualized, I'd wager.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 11:51 AM   #71
Rev.K. Barrish
 
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Hello Aikido list members,

I hope everyone is really enjoying the Summer season with family and Aiki friends and also guarding their health during the high heat.

re: internal power, may I add a few words from the perspective of the Jinja Shinto. This is from the teaching of Sarutahiko Okami that Kaiso received from Tsubaki Okami Yashiro in Mie, Japan.

MYO HO JIGEN JINPEN JINTSURIKI

妙法 Myoho: it is to understand Kannagara. Kannagara is the law of the Great Nature. We human beings can receive infinite courage, power and wisdom by resonating with and progressing in harmony with the ceaseless movement of the Great Nature.

示現 Jigen: Ji is to indicate and gen is to manifest. It mean to practice correctly the way of Kannagara. This means to respect the life you received from your ancestors and revere the kami (generative force of Nature), and to practice and hand down correctly Kyozon Kyoei/ co-existence and co-prosperity. This is the method to receive inspiration and power from Nature/Kami and to achieve good result.

神変 Jinpen: It means that, the Great Spirit of the kami enters into a body of those who are genuinely doing best and it's effect actually appears in one's action. 神 kami should be pronounced as Shin and 神力 should be pronounced as shinriki. When it's divine power appears through the human body, the pronunciation should be as jinriki and an effect of Jinriki is called as 神通力, Jintsuriki. This change to a sonant from a resonance means actual embodiment of the kami power.

神通力 Jintsuriki: It does not sound as Shintsuriki. Sarutahiko Okami (Kami of KI, Aiki Oyagami/ancestor kami) is the kami with mysterious power of Jinpen and it is tha kami that manifests us infinitely this Jintsuriki. We seriously hope to become a person with Jointsuriki, who is capable of catching the power of the kami by a whole body.

********************************************************

If this sounds interesting and you are near the Pacific Northwest please consider to visit Kannagara Aiki training at Tsubaki Grand Shrine of America www.Kannagara.org -- if you are in California please consider the August 20-21-22 Seventh Annual Kings Beach CA (on Lake Tahoe) Seminar hosted by Matsuba Dojo matsubadojo@yahooo.com and Jason House Sensei (503) 546-9388 ...we can explore the meaning and historical context of this teaching in some depth.

yoroshiku onegaishimasu

Koichi Barrish

Senior Shinto Priest

America Tsubaki Okami Yashiro

www.Tsubakishrine.org
 
Old 08-06-2010, 12:42 PM   #72
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Quote:
Dan Harden wrote:
Overall, if someone is not conversant in traditional weapons, jujutsu, MMA and modern weapons, than I'm not really interested in their opinions on what is the best methodology to use in all those venues. I will listen to their methods, feel them, talk shop, but I have seen and felt true internal experts not be able to handle certain things enough times that I look at them the same way I look at Daito ryu and Aikido "experts." that is that by staying in their arts, they have limited their own development and views -to those arts. Not really a bad thing, but it just...is what it is.
So when some argue that training for whole body connection is all the same, I just say. "No...it isn't."
Cheers
Dan
Quote:
Budd writes: I dunno, your first sentence can straddle the edge of, "If someone doesn't understand exactly what I do and why I do it" versus "If someone doesn't agree with me" to the point of excluding good input (but hey, you need to apply filters somewhere) . . I think being credibly challenged on ideas and perspectives is a very good thing in reasonable doses.
Hi Budd, only a quick reply for now

Its really not a matter of whether or not someone agrees with me or not. Its a question of what they themselves can do and understand..The key point is that if they are not conversant in all those methodologies, than they really are only guessing aren't they? They may even by right here or there, but they don't really know. Worse when I have them do certain things with and without weapons, and they simply can't, or I up the anti from simple grappling, Aikido, Daito ryu, Karate or push hands to a more presssured environment and they fall apart. I can't help but form opinions. Even more so when I have them work on moving and training the way I do and Viola!!...they start to do some things.... across the board.
I dunno, Budd... it makes me form opinions...shrug.

For those that are conversant cross the board, and I think it is extremely rare, they can see things others can't. That does not disclude or dismiss new information or ideas! Not in the least! Which is why I said
"I will listen to their methods, feel them, talk shop..."
It's just that I will reserve judgment on what is ultimately viable across the board and experiment. At some point people need to have a baseline and they might have learned to trust their instincts on certain methods..
As you said "It gets harder to apply an objective review of yourself." I totally agree and for that reason many people in budo never stop...they are never satisfied. Today things are changing; there are more opportunities for all of us. Like so many others I continue to research. One difference may be that not as many take things out for a spin with so many different types of people, but hey...even that is a growing movement!. I am never going to stop doing that and will probably never be satisfied or finished.
These are interesting times..
Cheers
Dan

Last edited by DH : 08-06-2010 at 12:55 PM.
 
Old 08-06-2010, 12:45 PM   #73
Budd
 
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Agree with all of that, Dan, even though that isn't significant on it's own - but it's absolutely about the following things in my view as well (and any misunderstanding of what you're saying is mine, but here's how I see it, too):

1) Regardless of what you can say, what can you do?
2) With regards to what you can do, are you ever satisfied with it?
 
Old 08-06-2010, 01:29 PM   #74
DH
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Budd Yuhasz wrote:

1) Regardless of what you can say, what can you do?
2) With regards to what you can do, are you ever satisfied with it?
And both of those are best judged by others.
1, Best done by competent strangers.
2. By long time friends who will NEVER let you rest on your laurels...if you hold on to any!
Dan
 
Old 08-06-2010, 01:34 PM   #75
Budd
 
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Re: What paths lead to internal power??

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
And both of those are best judged by others.
1, Best done by competent strangers.
2. By long time friends who will NEVER let you rest on your laurels...if you hold on to any!
Dan
Nice . . the competent strangers I'm hoping to find in some MMA gyms. The long time friends in martial arts all seem to want to kick my ass, too . . must be my glowing and nurturing personality . .
 

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