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Old 07-27-2010, 04:47 PM   #26
Keith Larman
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

And fwiw, I have carved kanji into my jo on the "kissaki" end. Just because that's my jo and that's the kissaki. It feels right that way vs. the other. And I can easily make some newbie realize it's my jo during practice and not one of the zillion dojo jo. So quit putting it on the rack and give it back to me! Sheesh...

Look, folks, do it however you'd like. Some styles do make distinctions between ends. If your style doesn't, cool, don't worry about it. If your style does, great, enjoy your training.

I've got one jo that has a really small knot in the wood grain near what I consider the tip. Habit. Kata. Training. Do it more. Rinse, repeat. Do what your sensei says (rather than mine or someone else's) and get better at it.

Shrug...

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Old 07-27-2010, 09:34 PM   #27
lbb
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Matthew Story wrote: View Post
I think you're drawing a false dichotomy here. You are assuming that aikijo must either be (a) just spearfighting with a stick in place of the spear or (b) a staff art which has nothing to do with spear and which therefore cannot be usefully informed by spear thinking. Why can't it be (c) a staff art heavily influenced by its founder's study of the spear, the understanding of which might therefore occasionally be aided by spear visualization?
You can call it a purple platypus if you want, but it's irrelevant to the matter under discussion, i.e., whether there is a functional reason to paint the ends of a jo so that you can tell one end from the other. Can you name a kata where the ends of the jo are differentiated, such that only one end can be used for a given technique? No? Then there's no need to mark a "this end" and a "that end", no matter what the antecedents may be.
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:28 AM   #28
Flintstone
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
You can call it a purple platypus if you want, but it's irrelevant to the matter under discussion, i.e., whether there is a functional reason to paint the ends of a jo so that you can tell one end from the other. Can you name a kata where the ends of the jo are differentiated, such that only one end can be used for a given technique? No? Then there's no need to mark a "this end" and a "that end", no matter what the antecedents may be.
Shall I repost my list?
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Old 07-28-2010, 08:39 AM   #29
cguzik
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Keith,
Those are excellent points. Thanks for highlighting them.
Chris
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Old 07-28-2010, 10:31 AM   #30
RED
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Regardless of whether or not it is useful to have colored tips, they are very pretty. Thanks for sharing.

MM
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Old 07-29-2010, 08:47 AM   #31
OwlMatt
 
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
You can call it a purple platypus if you want, but it's irrelevant to the matter under discussion, i.e., whether there is a functional reason to paint the ends of a jo so that you can tell one end from the other.
On the contrary, what I said was very relevant and made a very real distinction. You can refute it if you want- in fact, please do; this is what good discussion is all about- but to carelessly dismiss it as meaningless semantics doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Quote:
Can you name a kata where the ends of the jo are differentiated, such that only one end can be used for a given technique? No? Then there's no need to mark a "this end" and a "that end", no matter what the antecedents may be.
A kata, in and of itself, differentiates nothing. It is a sequence of movements with no mind of its own. Move here, tsuki, block, yokomen, etc. To find out whether or not a kata favors one end of the jo in a certain way, one would either have to study it extensively or try doing it with a marked jo. I have already admitted that I have attempted neither, so I have no concrete evidence to prove anything to you. But I think it would be interesting to look into, and my sensei indicates that it might be quite revealing.
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Old 07-29-2010, 09:10 AM   #32
lbb
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Matthew Story wrote: View Post
A kata, in and of itself, differentiates nothing. It is a sequence of movements with no mind of its own. Move here, tsuki, block, yokomen, etc.
I disagree with this statement profoundly and fundamentally. That being the case, I don't think we have sufficient common points to continue this discussion.
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:12 AM   #33
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Hm, when using a jo I don't look at it. Neither when doing aikijo nor when doin jo jutsu.
So I wouldn't see or recognize colours on it while using it.

Second: In most dojo I know, the only colours - black and white left aside - can be found if shomen is decorated with flowers.
A coloured jo would be very "disturbing".
(I think most dojo I know, would offer the owner of a coloured jo one of the dojo-weapons. Very politely, but firmly.)

Third in our training we "exchange" the ends of the jo. There are a lot of such changes. They seem typical because a jo is not a yari or naginata or bo.

At last: My own weapons have been expensive and are handmade. I would regret it if the colour of someones jo would rub off on them.

(I've never seen a coloured jo in all those years. Isn't this more playing then practicing?)
Carsten
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:40 PM   #34
lbb
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Shall I repost my list?
With respect, I don't think your list is relevant to what I'm saying here. it didn't convince me that a jo should have a permanent "this end" and "that end" last time, and I haven't heard anything since to change my mind.

Last edited by lbb : 07-29-2010 at 12:43 PM.
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:04 PM   #35
Flintstone
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Second: In most dojo I know, the only colours - black and white left aside - can be found if shomen is decorated with flowers.
Then we should mark traditional dojo in traditional arts as being "distracting".
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:06 PM   #36
Flintstone
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
With respect, I don't think your list is relevant to what I'm saying here. it didn't convince me that a jo should have a permanent "this end" and "that end" last time, and I haven't heard anything since to change my mind.
With respect too, why the (by all means incomplete) list is not relevant for you? Are they not kata? Are they not the kata you are used to? Or what are they not? What about Keith points? Or do you just want to be right and make us all wrong?
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Old 07-30-2010, 03:03 AM   #37
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
With respect too, why the (by all means incomplete) list is not relevant for you? Are they not kata? Are they not the kata you are used to? Or what are they not?
Well there are kata where you use the same end of the jo.
There are a lot of kata in which the ends of the jo are often changed.

So could you please explein, what does your list want to say?
And: Why is it relevant ot think about this?

About traditional dojo:
You seem to be used to coloured weapons? Ok then, so be it.
I just visited a dojo, which claims to be traditional and they did some things which seemed strange to me.

Carsten
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Old 07-30-2010, 08:17 AM   #38
lbb
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
With respect too, why the (by all means incomplete) list is not relevant for you? Are they not kata? Are they not the kata you are used to? Or what are they not? What about Keith points? Or do you just want to be right and make us all wrong?
If you'd seriously like an answer to your question, which I believe I have already answered, please find a less antagonistic way to phrase your question, and I'll get to it when I can.
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Old 07-31-2010, 09:09 AM   #39
Flintstone
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
If you'd seriously like an answer to your question, which I believe I have already answered, please find a less antagonistic way to phrase your question, and I'll get to it when I can.
I give up. You deny the yari influence, so be it, be happy, train well, take care and stay cool. Is that less antagonistic enough for you?
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Old 07-31-2010, 09:14 AM   #40
Flintstone
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Well there are kata where you use the same end of the jo.
True.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
There are a lot of kata in which the ends of the jo are often changed.
True.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
So could you please explein, what does your list want to say?
And: Why is it relevant ot think about this?
We were asked a list of kata where only one end of the jo was used. I produced such a list. That's what my (incomplete) list wants to say. And: that's why it's relevant. Period.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
About traditional dojo:
You seem to be used to coloured weapons? Ok then, so be it.
Not specially. But I was refering to your black & white view, while the traditional dojo is full of coloured hakamas, decorated obis and the like. Of course coloured weapons is not a no-no.

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
I just visited a dojo, which claims to be traditional and they did some things which seemed strange to me.
Most probably they will think what you do is strange too. And most probably they'll be righter.

Oh, sorry, I used my antagonistic tone again. Will commit e-seppuku immediately.
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Old 08-01-2010, 06:22 AM   #41
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: Can't find colored jos, so...........

Hi,

thank you for explaining.

Quote:
Alejandro Villanueva wrote: View Post
Not specially. But I was refering to your black & white view, while the traditional dojo is full of coloured hakamas, decorated obis and the like.
...
Most probably they will think what you do is strange too. And most probably they'll be righter.

Ok, I think we should talk about our understanding of "traditional dojo", but this is not the right place for that and I don't have to ...

Quote:
Oh, sorry, I used my antagonistic tone again. Will commit e-seppuku immediately.

Please don't!
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