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Old 07-29-2002, 11:10 AM   #1
diesel
Dojo: Tenshin
Location: Higashihiroshima
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 106
Japan
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Freaky! Weapon conditioning...

Hi all,

Where locally would one find linseed oil and tung oil. I need to condition my jo and bokken, but I am unable to find the above. I have looked at a few local asian markets and hardware stores. I have found linseeds, but not the oil. I have heard flax seed oil is the same, but still cannot find that! As for tung oil.. no luck either. Maybe a woodworking store? Any idea's out there as to a similar product I could use?


tia
Eric
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Old 07-29-2002, 11:23 AM   #2
outrageous02909
Dojo: aikikai-downtown
Location: ri
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If you have a home depot in your area i would check there.
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Old 07-29-2002, 12:10 PM   #3
Greg Jennings
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Unless you need to put a waterproof finish on them, I'd not use either of those, especially not for the jo that needs to slide easily through your hands.

I've had good success by just periodically wiping them down with furniture oils...whatever the wife is stocking at the moment.

I also periodically lightly sand my jo. It keeps the dents from eventually raising little splinters that end up in my hands.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 07-29-2002, 12:12 PM   #4
kung fu hamster
Join Date: Jul 2002
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Menards also has boiled linseed and tung oil as well as Danish oil, most health food stores should have flax seed oil (refrigerated section) but I don't know if you need it processed or not. Also, any decent art store that sells art supplies would have the boiled linseed oil or tung oil. I think I like boiled linseed oil the best, it really smells nice.
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Old 07-29-2002, 12:43 PM   #5
BC
Location: Chicago, IL
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You should be able to find tung oil (and others) at any decent paint store.

The gentleman that made both my jo and bokken recommended using tung or linseed oil to keep the wood in good shape. Tung oil does not hinder jo from sliding through your hands, by the way.

Regards,

Robert Cronin
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Old 07-29-2002, 01:00 PM   #6
The Wrenster
Location: Horsham
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Hey, over in the uk, you can pick up linseed oil from specialist sports shops, i.e. cricket shops( for their bats).

When you decide to cause harm, you are breaking the harmony of the Universe, and thus you are already defeated.
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Old 07-29-2002, 01:05 PM   #7
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
Robert Cronin (BC) wrote:
The gentleman that made both my jo and bokken recommended using tung or linseed oil to keep the wood in good shape. Tung oil does not hinder jo from sliding through your hands, by the way.
Yep, and the car company that made my car, makes's 100,000's of them a year told me to put dinosaur sludge in the crank case. I didn't pay much attention to them, either, and got over 200,000 miles out of the car and sold it to my sensei who happily drives it everywhere.

I've finished 100's of gun stocks with a 50-50% mix of linseed oil and tung oil. It eventually fills the pores and forms a uniform satin finish.

That finish might slide through your hands where you are just fine, but it doesn't here where we train outdoors and the summer heat index averages 105.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 07-29-2002, 01:58 PM   #8
Sherman Byas
Dojo: Anshindokan Dojo
Location: Chicago, IL
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105!

That's almost as hot as Chicago.

In previous post people have mentioned that these oils leave an off scent. Is this true and can you add a little something else.

Linda, does the boiled linseed really smell nice or are you pulling my leg?
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Old 07-29-2002, 02:53 PM   #9
kung fu hamster
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Well, I like it, anyway. I like the smell of artists paints and oils.
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Old 07-29-2002, 03:56 PM   #10
BC
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Well, just a week ago it was around 110 degrees here, so I guess you're right. My jo is going on four years old, and has been treated with tung oil from the beginning (cut with mineral spirits I should add), and haven't had a problem yet. I also have a close relative who's had a 3rd generation family-run cabinet making business confirm that the tung oil is a good treatment for the wood. I guess we'll just have to agree-to-disagree, Mr. Jennings.

Regards,

Robert Cronin
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Old 07-30-2002, 01:07 AM   #11
Edward
Location: Bangkok
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I have tried linseed oil for over 1 year and was quite annoyed with the rancid smell as well as the yellowing of my once beautiful white oak weapons. Apart from that, linseed oil seems to be perfect. I started recently using mineral oil which does not have any of the above inconveniences, but is not as effective as linseed. Many websites specialized in woods actually advise to use linseed and tung oil as a first option.
And, by the way, weapons treated with tung and linseedoils do develop a rubbery surface which sticks to the hands, especially in the beginning of the practice. But since my hands are quite sweaty, then after a few minutes of training, I have no problem whatsoever. I did not see this happen with mineral oil.

Last edited by Edward : 07-30-2002 at 01:11 AM.
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Old 07-30-2002, 03:24 AM   #12
jk
Location: Indonesia
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Uncut tung oil works for me. I haven't noticed it gumming up.

If you don't like the smell, you might use something like lemon oil. Just for kicks, has anybody tried tanning oil?

Regards,
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Old 07-30-2002, 04:55 AM   #13
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi !

The answer to avoiding the rubbery feel is,

after the wood has absorbed the nessesary oil (linseed),wipe it off with some terpentine on a cloth.

Yours - Chr.B.
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Old 07-30-2002, 05:47 AM   #14
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
Robert Cronin (BC) wrote:
Well, just a week ago it was around 110 degrees here, so I guess you're right. My jo is going on four years old, and has been treated with tung oil from the beginning (cut with mineral spirits I should add), and haven't had a problem yet. I also have a close relative who's had a 3rd generation family-run cabinet making business confirm that the tung oil is a good treatment for the wood. I guess we'll just have to agree-to-disagree, Mr. Jennings.
Linseed oil and tung oil are _terrific_ treatments for wood. As I said, I've used them for years to finish gun stocks to a very beautiful, natural finish.

Cutting the tung oil with mineral spirits may make the oil less inclined to coagulate and give the effect I'm speaking of. Ditto Christian's suggestion of wiping off excess with turpentine. I have no experience with either.

What I'm speaking about is layers and layers of boiled linseed and/or tung oil eventually filling all the pores and forming a completely smooth, satiny finish. It's gorgous when done well. I just completed refinishing a family heirloom cherry banquet table using it; it's out of this world.

But with the jo, my experience has been that once the pores fill up and one doesn't feel the pores anymore, the jo will drag some in the hands when doing tsuki movements.

YMMV and I'd be fine with that.

Best Regards,

Last edited by Greg Jennings : 07-30-2002 at 08:08 AM.

Greg Jennings
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Old 07-30-2002, 08:00 AM   #15
Sherman Byas
Dojo: Anshindokan Dojo
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Greg, what does YMMV mean?
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Old 07-30-2002, 08:08 AM   #16
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
Sherman Byas wrote:
Greg, what does YMMV mean?
"YMMV" = "Your Milage May Vary". Meaning your experience may be different from mine.

With so many variables: temperature, humidity, style of handling the jo, claminess of hands, etc. Who knows? We just have to take the information, try something and see how it works for us.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 07-30-2002, 08:20 AM   #17
Sherman Byas
Dojo: Anshindokan Dojo
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Greg,

I just peeked at your profile, Happy belated birthday! Did/Will you take 40 falls? It's a tradition at our dojo you take falls to equal your age.
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Old 07-30-2002, 08:47 AM   #18
Paul Smith
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We condition weapons with walnut oil, which is readily available. Works well, in my experience.

Paul

Paul Smith
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Old 08-05-2002, 06:29 PM   #19
Bruce Baker
Dojo: LBI Aikikai/LBI ,NJ
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I guess I have had too many years of working on boats.

I use interior fastdrying varnish.

If you have ever refinished the woodwork on a sailboat, then you really know what a pain it is to oil the wood every other week along with cleaning and refinishing twice a year. That's why God invented varnish, for us lazy people who want to use our sticks, not be oiling them every couple of weeks.
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Old 08-05-2002, 09:10 PM   #20
Greg Jennings
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Quote:
Sherman Byas wrote:
Greg,

I just peeked at your profile, Happy belated birthday! Did/Will you take 40 falls? It's a tradition at our dojo you take falls to equal your age.
Hi Sherman,

Thanks for the birthday well-wishes.

Nah, we don't have any traditions like that. We do have about 30 minutes of ukemi training each class, so I get in that and more twice a week.

Best Regards,

Greg Jennings
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Old 08-05-2002, 09:57 PM   #21
guest1234
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My oldest weapon is a bokken (3 and 1/2 years or so...), which I've oiled with lindseed oil it's entire life, first in Las Vegas (hot/dry) then in Baltimore (hot, wet)...it seems to be doing OK, not sticky, but I rub the oil in, and then buff with a cloth...it does smell like lindseed, which is OK by me but not great, so sometimes I add orange oil. I use artist grade lindseed oil, and food grade orange oil... the former from art stores, the latter from a pricey cooking catalog.

If I do say so myself, I think the finish on my weapons is particularly smooth, but that is more due to the sanding and hand polishing than the oil, I think.
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Old 08-05-2002, 10:03 PM   #22
Kevin Wilbanks
Location: Seattle/Southern Wisconsin
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If you are having trouble with the gripping properties of your jo, finish is only one issue. Another is the porosity of wood type, and another is sandpaper. There are many grits of sandpaper to be used, and the way your jo came needn't be the end of the story. (The one I have now also came with a polyurethane or lacquer coating that I immediately removed.)

Sanding is not a willy-nilly business. The main rule is not to jump up grits too boldly, if you do, the surface will be a hodgepodge of rough and smooth... basically it will end up with furry bits.

If you would like a smoother jo, go buy some fine grit papers, starting at 100 or 150, and work your way up until you like the feel. To test out the feel, and/or to prepare for a new grit, you need to vigorously wipe it and your hands down with a damp cloth and let it dry to get rid of dust interference.

In my experience, once you've sanded the surface to where you want it, putting a little oil on it is good, but which kind isn't all that important, so long as it is not as polymer/glaze finish like polyurethane or varnish. White oak, in particular, isn't going to absorb much of it anyway. Pure tung oil (not tung oil varnish) is good, but I think it and linseed/flax oil smell unpleasantly rancid when dry. My favorite is Watco oil finish. Rub it on liberally, let it sit for a few minutes, then rub off the excess with a dry cloth. However, it and most varnishes contain petroleum distillates - be warned that rags and papers soaked with it are subject to spontaneous combustion, and should be sealed in a can for disposal.

Last edited by Kevin Wilbanks : 08-05-2002 at 10:05 PM.
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Old 08-08-2002, 08:27 AM   #23
virginia_kyu
Dojo: Aikido of Northern Virginia
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I found a great supplier of pure tung oil, they deliver fast too.

www.realmilkpaint.com/oil.html

By the way, is the "refined linseed oil" you buy in artist supply stores the same as boiled linseed oil? From what I have read is that you should mix 50% tung oil and 50% boiled linseed oil for your finish.

Last edited by virginia_kyu : 08-08-2002 at 08:29 AM.

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Old 08-08-2002, 08:53 AM   #24
ChristianBoddum
 
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Hi !

If you sand down any wood for a smooth suface,

when finished wet it with a water soaked cloth,let dry about an hour,the wood has now "risen" ,sand with about 240 grit paper not exessesive (or you'll have to do it again),

when smooth again you are ready to oil.

Linseed oil can be "broken" with some turpentine so it actually penetrates better,and smells less.

Yours - Chr.B. (former cabinetmaker btw.)
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Old 08-17-2002, 04:01 PM   #25
David Worsley
Dojo: Plymouth School of Aikido
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A few drops of your favorite essential oil added to the linseed oil mix will not only make it smell a little better it will also make it very obviously yours. This could answer a previous query.

How can I mark my weapons!

Sorry we`ve got a new puppy and he`s into scent marking at the moment.
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