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Old 06-28-2010, 03:05 PM   #1
Zenjamin
Join Date: Jun 2010
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Is Aikido Air?

Hello.
Recently, I have been thinking of the elements, and how they relate to life.

I am interested in Aikido, so as a sort of introduction, let me start with a question.

Which element do you think Aikido is?
Earth, air, water, fire, wood, metal, ect....

I know Aikido and Tai Chi are verry similar in certian principals, And I know Tai Chi is charactized as being like water.
However, Tai Chi seems abit more deleberate. A tad more graceful. And a tad more feminimine.... and I do not mean that in a negative sense. I only mean that Tia Chi seems abit more yin then yang.

Given their relationships, if Tia Chi is water, Aikido seems to be more air.
Both spiritual. Both flowing. Both a little more soft, but enough differences to have them be of differient elements.

So..... Aikido= Air.
Does the anaology hold true.... from an elemental perspective?
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:13 PM   #2
jbblack
 
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Check out Robert Frager Sensei he has a DVD that addresses this.

https://www.createspace.com/238419

Aikido and The Five Rings and Stories of O-Sensei

This DVD contains two major videos with Robert Frager, 7th Dan. The first video applies the concepts of The Five Rings of Miyomoto Musashi (Ground, Wind, Fire, Water and Void) to training in Aikido. Included are demonstrations with sword as well as empty hand techniques. (35 min.)

Cheers,
Jeff
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:14 PM   #3
RED
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

I don't like the classification.
O'sensei refereed to Aikido as both ying and yang...but besides that,this is too new age for me. I personally like the saying "Less talking, less thinking-- more training."

MM
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:21 PM   #4
Zenjamin
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Thanks Jeff.... But im having trouble comming up with rent money, so that wont happen for awhile.

And Maggie.
I can get that philosophy..... but if thats the way you feel, what the hell are you doing on a discussion forum? :P

In all seriousness thuogh. I know that Aikido is not so easy to classify or contain. And I know it has elements of each element. And I know that at the end of the day, you just have to empty your mind and channel the Ki to do what you trained your body to do.

.... but that doesnt mean that these discussions are pointless.
If nothing else, they generate new thoughts and angles from which to look at things. And that can be good in and of itself.
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:25 PM   #5
Marc Abrams
Dojo: Aikido Arts of Shin Budo Kai/ Bedford Hills, New York
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

I think that Aikido is a Mojito!

A little bit sweet, a little bit spicy, a little bit bubbly and definitely intoxicating

Marc Abrams
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:28 PM   #6
RED
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Benjamin Cooper wrote: View Post

And Maggie.
I can get that philosophy..... but if thats the way you feel, what the hell are you doing on a discussion forum? :P

.
Waiting for my baked ziti to finish cooking of course. An Aikidoka's got to eat too.

MM
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:53 PM   #7
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

When some people throw you it feels like steel surrounded by air...or air until you meet the steel, or something like that. Or water... that you hit from a great height.

What I'm trying to say is, really good aikido to me is both fluent and soft and very hard and powerful at the same time.

So have you been to a class yet?

kvaak
Pauliina
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:06 PM   #8
lbb
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Benjamin Cooper wrote: View Post
In all seriousness thuogh. I know that Aikido is not so easy to classify or contain. And I know it has elements of each element. And I know that at the end of the day, you just have to empty your mind and channel the Ki to do what you trained your body to do.

.... but that doesnt mean that these discussions are pointless.
If nothing else, they generate new thoughts and angles from which to look at things. And that can be good in and of itself.
That's true, but it's hard for discussions to proceed if you don't know your terms. I know that for myself, while I have heard of the Chinese five elements, I don't know what they really mean. Do you? I think many Westerners would be inclined to view them as metaphor, but I'm not sure that a Chinese person would see them the same way. Anyway, I don't, so I don't know what the answer to your question would be.
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:41 PM   #9
danj
Dojo: Brisbane Aikido Republic
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

A quote from Yoshigasaki Sensei at one of his seminars that has always resonated well is 'only when your concept of aikido improves will your aikido improve'. Since then I have worked through many helpful concepts, metaphors and ideas be they new and old, eastern and western. Aikido is Air I can work with that one too...

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Old 06-28-2010, 08:37 PM   #10
Adam Huss
 
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Well I have no opinion relating aikido to any element.

I will say that I agree with Yoshigasaki Sensei's statement. One of my old teachers used to say that, every few years, he reread a certain aikido book and got totally new meaning out of a lot of it.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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Old 06-28-2010, 10:01 PM   #11
danj
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Adam Huss wrote: View Post
Well I have no opinion relating aikido to any element.

I will say that I agree with Yoshigasaki Sensei's statement. One of my old teachers used to say that, every few years, he reread a certain aikido book and got totally new meaning out of a lot of it.
OK I'll bite, which book? sounds like a treasure

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Old 06-29-2010, 12:09 AM   #12
Adam Huss
 
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Aikido and the Dynamic Sphere...I'm not a big fan, but he was, and I can definitely see how he could get more out of it each reading over the years. Makes sense.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:05 AM   #13
TreyPrice
 
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Takemusu - Aikido is what Aikido needs to be.

My $.02

Train well!
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:50 AM   #14
Don_Modesto
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Benjamin Cooper wrote: View Post
Which element do you think Aikido is?
Earth, air, water, fire, wood, metal, ect....
Hitch-hiking across Florida once, I got picked up by a dope-growing redneck in a rusty burned-out sedan. Your question reminds me of his hospitable query while digging on the radio, "Which do you like, treble or bass?"

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 06-29-2010, 10:21 AM   #15
DH
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Maybe we can wait till Friday. I am sure that ang can tell us what we're bending.....
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Old 06-29-2010, 11:57 AM   #16
Rob Watson
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Benjamin Cooper wrote: View Post
Which element do you think Aikido is?
Earth, air, water, fire, wood, metal, ect....
And people wonder why everyone thinks aikido folks are goofy ... seriously, wake up and plant some roses.

Besides, clearly, aikido is energy shaped and guided by spirit and operates beyond the lowly material realms governed by the 5 elements.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:27 PM   #17
phitruong
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

if aikido = air, wouldn't that make the heads of various aikido orgs, airheads?
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Old 06-29-2010, 02:56 PM   #18
Hellis
Dojo: Ellis Schools of Traditional Aikido
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Angry Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
And people wonder why everyone thinks aikido folks are goofy ... seriously, wake up and plant some roses.
Robert, thanks for injecting some common sense.
I really did wonder how far people would go along with this. perhaps the OP needs to release some other air ?

Henry Ellis
http://www.british-aikido.com
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Old 06-29-2010, 06:17 PM   #19
Michael Hackett
Dojo: Kenshinkan Dojo (Aikido of North County) Vista, CA
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Sounds like a bad case of pneumocephalus to me.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 06-29-2010, 07:55 PM   #20
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Benjamin Cooper wrote: View Post
Hello.
Recently, I have been thinking of the elements, and how they relate to life.

I am interested in Aikido, so as a sort of introduction, let me start with a question.

Which element do you think Aikido is?
Earth, air, water, fire, wood, metal, ect....

I know Aikido and Tai Chi are verry similar in certian principals, And I know Tai Chi is charactized as being like water.
However, Tai Chi seems abit more deleberate. A tad more graceful. And a tad more feminimine.... and I do not mean that in a negative sense. I only mean that Tia Chi seems abit more yin then yang.

Given their relationships, if Tia Chi is water, Aikido seems to be more air.
Both spiritual. Both flowing. Both a little more soft, but enough differences to have them be of differient elements.

So..... Aikido= Air.
Does the anaology hold true.... from an elemental perspective?
My contribution to the smart-assed remarks is that I think it's more like the element He: noble and, yes, sometimes makes you talk funny.
I have a hard time understanding some of the classical element metaphors so i tend to think in terms of gas, liquid, and solid, which can represent relative stages of coalescence of force.
http://www.kannagara.org/aikido
I think Mary's point is a very good one. Benjamin, maybe you could describe your understanding of those elements and how they apply to movement and mindset? Maybe then folks will have something more concrete to grab hold of.

Last edited by mathewjgano : 06-29-2010 at 08:03 PM.

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:50 AM   #21
David Yap
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Hi,

Here's a good read regarding the oriental concept of the five elements and it's relationship to aikido.

http://www.seishinryu.net/five.htm

The concept of the five elements, imho, is an extension of the Ying-Yang concept. Both are about the balance of nature. In ones journey of the aikido path, one would surely experience the different elements at different phases/levels of training. This is also a matter of choice of whether one choose to move from one phase to another. Ultimately, one man's Yin is another man's Yang.

Just my 2-sen.

Regards

David Y
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:14 AM   #22
Don_Modesto
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Phi Truong wrote: View Post
if aikido = air, wouldn't that make the heads of various aikido orgs, airheads?
No Like button on AikiWeb, is there...

Don J. Modesto
St. Petersburg, Florida
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Old 06-30-2010, 06:44 AM   #23
Keith Larman
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Quote:
Don J. Modesto wrote: View Post
No Like button on AikiWeb, is there...
Yeah, along the same lines I think you have to be sure to consider the relative temperature of said air to evaluate it's qualitative properties...

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Old 07-12-2010, 11:32 AM   #24
mathewjgano
 
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

I was reading Niall's great blog post here and was reminded of this thread. It's a great read!

Gambarimashyo!
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Old 07-12-2010, 11:51 AM   #25
Greg Jennings
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Re: Is Aikido Air?

Diamond, Willow, Water, Air.

Greg Jennings
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