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Old 06-25-2010, 04:45 PM   #1
Rob Watson
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
"what next, where do I go from here?" after shodan.
After all those recurring and annoying kyu tests there is a nice 2 year break until nidan. Now sensei calls me up more often to uke other wise more of the same. Of course there is that tripping on the hakama thingy ...

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 06-25-2010, 05:32 PM   #2
RED
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
After all those recurring and annoying kyu tests there is a nice 2 year break until nidan. Now sensei calls me up more often to uke other wise more of the same. Of course there is that tripping on the hakama thingy ...
lol..i like when my knee gets caught on the leg of the hakama and I can't stand up

MM
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Old 06-26-2010, 03:57 PM   #3
lbb
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
After all those recurring and annoying kyu tests there is a nice 2 year break until nidan. .
Only two years, seriously? Based on the USAF hours requirements, going from shodan to nidan is 600 days minimum -- just barely doable if you train pretty much every day of those two years. More realistically, given the availability of classes and life requirements, I figure a fairly committed student might -- might do 200 days of training (averaging 4 days a week) in a year. Has anyone who wasn't an uchideshi gone from shodan to nidan in a two-year timeframe?
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Old 06-26-2010, 04:22 PM   #4
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: signing a contract

Really?

Hombu requires even for yondan "only" 400 days.
600 days of practice for nidan seems a lot to me.

Carsten
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Old 06-27-2010, 05:22 AM   #5
Pauliina Lievonen
 
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Re: signing a contract

In our organization two years from shodan to nidan is pretty normal as well.

kvaak
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:16 AM   #6
lbb
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Really?

Hombu requires even for yondan "only" 400 days.
600 days of practice for nidan seems a lot to me.
Yeah, really. Here are the requirements from the USAF website. USAF requires 400 days for shodan, 700 days for sandan, and "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" for yondan. Even the upper kyu ranks require enough hours that you're talking years, not months.
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Old 06-27-2010, 01:51 PM   #7
RED
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Only two years, seriously? Based on the USAF hours requirements, going from shodan to nidan is 600 days minimum -- just barely doable if you train pretty much every day of those two years. More realistically, given the availability of classes and life requirements, I figure a fairly committed student might -- might do 200 days of training (averaging 4 days a week) in a year. Has anyone who wasn't an uchideshi gone from shodan to nidan in a two-year timeframe?
I know the testing requirement sheet says 600 days, but I've met people who just went two years between Shodan and nidan, regardless of hours.
Also the testing hour requirements were just changed this year. The hours were shortened for some of the ranks. They also added the 6th kyu . However i think they purposely are pointing out that you NEED 600 days, not 2 years now. Because like i said a lot of people were going at the 2 year mark.

http://www.usaikifed.com/testreq.pdf

Last edited by RED : 06-27-2010 at 01:59 PM.

MM
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Old 06-27-2010, 02:05 PM   #8
RED
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Yeah, really. Here are the requirements from the USAF website. USAF requires 400 days for shodan, 700 days for sandan, and "if you have to ask, you can't afford it" for yondan. Even the upper kyu ranks require enough hours that you're talking years, not months.
That's the 1989 requirements. They shortened the requirements this year.
And are now requiring 1st kyu to attend seminars like shodan and nidan has too.
1st kyu is suppose to start showing the seriousness of a blackbelt anyways.
http://www.usaikifed.com/testreq.pdf

MM
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Old 06-27-2010, 02:59 PM   #9
lbb
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
I know the testing requirement sheet says 600 days, but I've met people who just went two years between Shodan and nidan, regardless of hours.
Huh. Wouldn't happen where I train.

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
Also the testing hour requirements were just changed this year. The hours were shortened for some of the ranks. They also added the 6th kyu .
What hours were the ranks shortened for? I know that 5th kyu used to be 60 hours instead of 40 (the only one that I know that changed), but then, it also used to be the first rank. Train for 20 hours and then test for sixth, train for 40 more and then test for fifth, OR train for 60 hours and then test for fifth, doesn't seem to make any difference in terms of the time it takes you to get there.

Edit: just read your second link. Yeah, that's a big difference at 1st kyu and shodan, all right. Who knows, I might make shodan in this lifetime!

Last edited by lbb : 06-27-2010 at 03:02 PM.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:04 PM   #10
Rob Watson
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Only two years, seriously? Based on the USAF hours requirements, going from shodan to nidan is 600 days minimum -- just barely doable if you train pretty much every day of those two years. More realistically, given the availability of classes and life requirements, I figure a fairly committed student might -- might do 200 days of training (averaging 4 days a week) in a year. Has anyone who wasn't an uchideshi gone from shodan to nidan in a two-year timeframe?
I'm going from memory (risky at my age) but minimum reqs (CAA) are 2 years and 540 training days. Lucky for us there are classes 6 days a week (Sunday is free practice) 13 hours + kids classes. Sensei knows when readiness has occurred.

I always figured 'committed' = uchideshi. I'm just a dilettant. I do know of a few folks that went to nidan in 2 years without a stint as uchideshi.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 06-27-2010, 07:34 PM   #11
Michael Hackett
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Re: signing a contract

AAA requirements from Shodan to Nidan are "Minimum 18 months and 50 hours as Assistant Instructor, attendance at one Instructor's Seminar or Camp since earning shodan." It is a rare student that progresses that fast though, and from what I've seen, most are at 2 and half to three years before being allowed to test.

Michael
"Leave the gun. Bring the cannoli."
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Old 06-28-2010, 06:19 AM   #12
Carsten Möllering
 
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Re: signing a contract

Hi

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Only two years, seriously? Based on the USAF hours requirements,
...
Has anyone who wasn't an uchideshi gone from shodan to nidan in a two-year timeframe?
Grading to nidan after 400 days of practice, which means two to three years after shodan, is quite "normal" here.
(Than at least three years to sandan.)
I think it's the usual timeframe because this is the time hombu requires and the grades of most aikido associations in my country are given directly by hombu.

Is there a certain reason, why it takes so long (compared to hombu) in the USAF? Do other organizations in the US use the same timframe?

Carsten
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Old 06-28-2010, 08:15 AM   #13
RED
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post

Edit: just read your second link. Yeah, that's a big difference at 1st kyu and shodan, all right. Who knows, I might make shodan in this lifetime!
I don't think you can get away with not having all 600 days unless your teacher is a Shihan. If you go to test at a Seminar where the Shihan has no personal relationship with you I don't think you can get away with shorting out on the days.

A lot of people were excited at first when they realized that shodan requirements were cut by 100 hours. However, they got upset when they realized that 1st kyu was now required to attend 2 seminars a year in order to test. I mean I'm in my early 20's, no kids with a double income, so I can hit seminars as much as I want. But a lot of people have kids, wives that don't do aikido, etc So if your Sensei doesn't host at least 2 major seminars a year they might not be able to go out of town for them to meet their requirements. (Heck even if Sensei has seminars and invites other schools, people still might not show up all the time...having young kids and working retail can be hard for that stuff.)

MM
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Old 06-28-2010, 09:09 AM   #14
AsimHanif
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Re: Minimum Testing Requirements/Guidelines

ASU
http://www.aikido-shobukan.org/?ref=19#Requirements For Yudansha Examination

CAA (last page)
http://www.ai-ki-do.org/Downloads/CA...es_Feb2008.pdf

Capital Aikikai Federation
http://www.capitalaikikai.org/test.html

Each org has some flexibility based on Hombu's minimum requirements.
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Old 06-28-2010, 12:12 PM   #15
tim evans
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Maggie Schill wrote: View Post
I don't think you can get away with not having all 600 days unless your teacher is a Shihan. If you go to test at a Seminar where the Shihan has no personal relationship with you I don't think you can get away with shorting out on the days.

A lot of people were excited at first when they realized that shodan requirements were cut by 100 hours. However, they got upset when they realized that 1st kyu was now required to attend 2 seminars a year in order to test. I mean I'm in my early 20's, no kids with a double income, so I can hit seminars as much as I want. But a lot of people have kids, wives that don't do aikido, etc So if your Sensei doesn't host at least 2 major seminars a year they might not be able to go out of town for them to meet their requirements. (Heck even if Sensei has seminars and invites other schools, people still might not show up all the time...having young kids and working retail can be hard for that stuff.)
At AOC the 1st kyu test rivals the shodan test

one of the "corn fed boys"
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Old 06-28-2010, 02:46 PM   #16
RED
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Tim Evans wrote: View Post
At AOC the 1st kyu test rivals the shodan test
Well the shodan test in USAF is really a reprise. You have to perform every test you've taken since 5th kyu, plus weapon's defense, and 4 man randori.
It is really a statement that you've learned all the basics. The basics are what you need to know in order to start training in Aikido.

MM
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:24 PM   #17
Neal Earhart
 
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Re: Minimum Testing Requirements/Guidelines

Aikido is a life-long journey. In the grand scheme of things, rank is un-important, unless you're obsessed with it...

...besides, Shodan is the "beginning dan"...so at this point in your training maybe your instructor thinks that you know your left foot from your right...
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Old 06-28-2010, 03:57 PM   #18
mickeygelum
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Re: Minimum Testing Requirements/Guidelines

Hours + Days = DOLLAR$$$$..." Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho, to the McDojo I go...."

Rank should be awarded upon skill, not minimum requirements.

Train as if you are going to die, not tumbling around in your pajamas at a slumber party!

Train well,

Mickey

Last edited by mickeygelum : 06-28-2010 at 04:02 PM.
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Old 06-28-2010, 04:19 PM   #19
RED
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Re: Minimum Testing Requirements/Guidelines

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
Hours + Days = DOLLAR$$$$..." Hi-Ho, Hi-Ho, to the McDojo I go...."

Rank should be awarded upon skill, not minimum requirements.

Train as if you are going to die, not tumbling around in your pajamas at a slumber party!

Train well,

Mickey
I agree with grading according to skill. I've seen people who have had the days fail because of skill. And I don't like the mentality that you should be given a belt just because your days are up. Frankly, it takes most people more than 600 days to be good enough to meet the standards of Nidan.
But I disagree that keeping track of how long you've done something is useless and just for money. I see where it has its place in correlation to a student's development. It is generally accurate. It does take about 60 days or more of training for most people to be able to pull off a 5th kyu exam.(according to the standards set by this particular federation.) And it does generally take 700 days or more after nidan for a person to be able to perform up to the high standards of a sandan exam.
Hombu dojo goes by days as well for this reason.

Last edited by RED : 06-28-2010 at 04:26 PM.

MM
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Old 06-28-2010, 05:07 PM   #20
Adam Huss
 
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Re: Minimum Testing Requirements/Guidelines

On the flip side...I will say I enjoy a teacher not afraid to fail someone.

Ichi Go, Ichi Ei!
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:13 AM   #21
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Re: Minimum Testing Requirements/Guidelines

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
Train as if you are going to die, not tumbling around in your pajamas at a slumber party!
I prefer to both train and to live the rest of my life in a mindset other than either of those two extremes.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:39 PM   #22
Rob Watson
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Asim Hanif wrote: View Post
ASU
http://www.aikido-shobukan.org/?ref=19#Requirements For Yudansha Examination

CAA (last page)
http://www.ai-ki-do.org/Downloads/CA...es_Feb2008.pdf

Capital Aikikai Federation
http://www.capitalaikikai.org/test.html

Each org has some flexibility based on Hombu's minimum requirements.
Quote:
Robert M Watson Jr wrote: View Post
I'm going from memory (risky at my age)
Memory FAIL. I warned y'all. Thanks Asim Hanif. Also I should have clarified that I mean't minimum reqs regarding hours/years ... there are more requirements than training time to meet the minimums for consideration of advancement to the next level-these will vary across orgs, natually.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:43 PM   #23
Rob Watson
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Tim Evans wrote: View Post
At AOC the 1st kyu test rivals the shodan test
I found this to true in my case as well (and for our org as well). I'm sure it didn't help that I failed 2 and 1 kyu tests along the way ... shodan was a breeze after all that mess.

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:45 PM   #24
Rob Watson
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Re: Minimum Testing Requirements/Guidelines

Quote:
Michael Gelum wrote: View Post
Train as if you are going to die, not tumbling around in your pajamas at a slumber party!
Slumber party sounds way more fun!

"In my opinion, the time of spreading aikido to the world is finished; now we have to focus on quality." Yamada Yoshimitsu

Ultracrepidarianism ... don't.
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Old 06-29-2010, 09:31 PM   #25
RED
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Re: signing a contract

Quote:
Carsten Möllering wrote: View Post
Really?

Hombu requires even for yondan "only" 400 days.
600 days of practice for nidan seems a lot to me.

Carsten
A black belt at hombu means something different than it does in the states. At Hombu they receive shodan around the same time we receive 3rd kyu in the states. To the western world black belt has a connotation of "mastery" , thus the standards for many western federations are higher for black belt. In Hombu a black belt simply means you are a contributing member of the dojo. You are considered to be a committed member of the dojo there around the same training time it takes the western federations to hit 3rd or 2nd kyu.

MM
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