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Old 06-23-2010, 11:17 PM   #26
David Yap
Join Date: Jun 2003
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Re: Weird bow

Quote:
Matthew Gano wrote: View Post
Hi all,

This is what I observe from the video:

1. When bowing (in seiza) to the shomen and to the class, Chiba's palms were pointing up (0.04). This gesture symbolizes the "opening of the heart" -- a sign of humility.
2. At 0.08 and 0.36, instead of the normal standing bow, he used the mushin (no-mind) gassho -- a form of greetings use in most Buddhist communities across the globe. He does this greeting/bowing most of the time.
3. After the demo at 0.33, he sort of took a sumo-stance and bowed touching the floor with the tips of his fingers and with his palms facing the class and then straightened up into a natural stance. By that gesture, he could be telling the class, "That's it, please practice".

I am not his student and neither have I attended his seminars, I guess that he expects less formality compared to some other shihans. When Toshiyuki Arai shihan from Gunma Aikikai visited our dojo a few years ago, he commented that students can practice more with the time utilized for all the formal bowings. He suggested that the formality of bowing be restricted to the opening and closing of the class only.

David Y
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:22 PM   #27
ninjaqutie
 
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Re: Weird bow

That type of bow happens in my dojo all the time. Never really thought about it. Sensei was a student of Chiba Sensei as well...

We also don't neccesarily bow on the same level. When sensei is done using me as uke, more often then not, I go into seiza and bow. He remains standing and bows to me. We just bow to whomever in whatever position we happen to be in (standing or in seiza).

~Look into the eyes of your opponent & steal his spirit.
~To be a good martial artist is to be good thief; if you want my knowledge, you must take it from me.
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Old 06-24-2010, 03:35 PM   #28
niall
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Re: Weird bow

If it turns out to be a variation of a Kashima bow then that would be a style of kenjutsu as some of us thought.

But there are a couple of interesting points this raises.

If George Ledyard doesn't mind I will quote from his response to an interesting article by Ellis Amdur about O Sensei and kenjutsu: http://www.aikidojournal.com/?id=1895

"If you look at the sword work done by Saotome, Chiba and Imaizumi Sensei (this is not meant to be a totally inclusive list) you will find elements of itto ryu and kashima sword. They have been asked where they picked this up and the response is immediately murky and vague… clearly the intention is to not provide an answer to the question."

So maybe we won't get a definitive answer.

Another interesting point is whether Chiba Sensei's students are consciously or unconsciously doing some version of this.

Also David made the point about the gassho. It's rare in aikido too in my experience. I believe it's used in shorinji kempo because as well as a greeting it's also an effective kamae (guard).

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Old 06-24-2010, 05:21 PM   #29
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
Location: Newcastle upon Tyne
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Re: Weird bow

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Hi all,

This is what I observe from the video:

1. When bowing (in seiza) to the shomen and to the class, Chiba's palms were pointing up (0.04). This gesture symbolizes the "opening of the heart" -- a sign of humility.
2. At 0.08 and 0.36, instead of the normal standing bow, he used the mushin (no-mind) gassho -- a form of greetings use in most Buddhist communities across the globe. He does this greeting/bowing most of the time.
3. After the demo at 0.33, he sort of took a sumo-stance and bowed touching the floor with the tips of his fingers and with his palms facing the class and then straightened up into a natural stance. By that gesture, he could be telling the class, "That's it, please practice".

I am not his student and neither have I attended his seminars, I guess that he expects less formality compared to some other shihans. When Toshiyuki Arai shihan from Gunma Aikikai visited our dojo a few years ago, he commented that students can practice more with the time utilized for all the formal bowings. He suggested that the formality of bowing be restricted to the opening and closing of the class only.

David Y
The use of Gassho by Chiba Sensei is in keeping with the fact that he is a Buddhist priest.
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Old 06-24-2010, 08:55 PM   #30
David Yap
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Malaysia
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Re: Weird bow

Quote:
Joe Curran wrote: View Post
The use of Gassho by Chiba Sensei is in keeping with the fact that he is a Buddhist priest.
Hi Joe,

That, explains the palms up bow at the beginning of the class/seminar.

In gassho,

David Y
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Old 06-25-2010, 12:21 AM   #31
sakumeikan
Dojo: Sakumeikan N.E. Aikkai .Newcastle upon Tyne.
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Re: Weird bow

Quote:
David Yap wrote: View Post
Hi Joe,

That, explains the palms up bow at the beginning of the class/seminar.

In gassho,

David Y
Dear David,
Yes indeed.At the opening of every class Chiba Sensei use the palm upward bow [indicating nothing in the hands as it were]rather than placing palms of both hands on the tatami ie the normal method.
Cheers,Joe.
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