Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > Language

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-12-2010, 01:52 PM   #176
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

I took note of your ignoring the body of my response.
Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
When did this happen? I'm not even aware of a time when you and I were less then 1000 miles from each other...
I offered for you to come here several times and that I would buy you dinner..

Quote:
You are unable to make a video demonstrating any ability. I understand.
Since there are dozens of men who read these pages, who have tried and know what it feels like to spar with me...I'll let your statement stand for what it's worth.

I understand the baiting game and deliberate choice of language you've chosen. Instead of forthright discussions with honest intentions and language you just want to play adolescent internet games which I will not take part in.
This ends our discussion.

Dan
 
Old 04-12-2010, 02:02 PM   #177
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
William Hazen wrote: View Post
Wow...What a great post...Dan I'll make no bones about it here...I am not interested in making my "fighting technique" better...Let's face it... I will be 50 this year and I practice Aikido for other reasons which is the reason I am interested in your form of IMA

What I want to know is what health and "spiritual" ( I know a very loaded word in Aikido) benefits does your IMA hold for someone like me...An average run of the mill regular dude...Don't get me wrong I can still mix it up and practice hard but I am interested in the benefits of Solo Training for Health outside of the Dojo where the mustard meets the hotdog...

The fact it may partially turn me into some sort of super duper Aiki man is beside the point and meaningless to me.

I will be back in MASS sometime this summer hopefully.

William Hazen
Hello William
I agree. I wouldn't cross the street for another jujutsu technique. I always said we would get along in person.
I have a meeting to get to. I'll answer you later tonight
Cheers
Dan
 
Old 04-12-2010, 02:03 PM   #178
jss
Location: Rotterdam
Join Date: Apr 2003
Posts: 459
Netherlands
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Robert Roeser wrote: View Post
Here's the thing. Say I make a video of a guy shoveling dirt. He could be using convention muscle, convention way of moving, etc. Or the guy could be using internal power. Either way it would look like a video of a guy shoveling dirt. Replace shoveling dirt with a a judo throw, or a shiho-nage or whatever. It doesn't look much different.
But it would look somewhat different and that should be enough if one were to make a video specifically to illustrate the difference between conventional movement and internal movement.
 
Old 04-12-2010, 02:40 PM   #179
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,632
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Dan Harden wrote: View Post
I offered for you to come here several times and that I would buy you dinner..
Dan, you know that you live on the opposite side of the country, right? That is a long way to go for dinner.

I do know of people from bullshido.net who live in your city, who wanted to meet you. You turned them down.

I would be happy to meet with you if I am ever 3000 miles closer. Or if you are ever in California, PLEASE come by. Otherwise the offer is kind of empty, isn't it?

We were never having a discussion Dan. You've typed lots of things about your ability, disparaged my ability, and dodged everything else.

 
Old 04-12-2010, 03:13 PM   #180
DH
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,394
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Chris
Thank you for a more considered reply. If I make it out that way you will be among the first to know.
As far as dispagaring comments on your efforts:
If you check, you might find that you made videos and made statements about your videos; that many people have commented on, and several of which were far more critical than mine. Most notably your weapons videos and your "opinions of weapons" drew some fire- from several people in Koryu- which many found off the mark. Those were critical discussions. I do not agree with your take on many things. Sorry if you took it personally-not my intent.
Dan
 
Old 04-12-2010, 03:36 PM   #181
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,632
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

...

 
Old 04-12-2010, 07:00 PM   #182
David Orange
Dojo: Aozora Dojo
Location: Birmingham, AL
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 1,508
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Jonathan Wong wrote: View Post
...I'd like to see videos where an effect is caused in the uke that would be definitive of what aiki is and is not.

If I can achieve it, I will video it for discussion!
Looking forward to your vids.

Meanwhile, I'd say the clips of William Gleason, posted earlier in the thread, are excellent examples of what you describe. He looks like he's caught the drift and I don't think his uke exaggerates.

And it looks like Gleason Sensei has advanced considerably since last August.

Best wishes.

David

"That which has no substance can enter where there is no room."
Lao Tzu

"Eternity forever!"

www.davidorangejr.com
 
Old 04-12-2010, 07:17 PM   #183
Stormcrow34
Dojo: Yoseikan Budo
Location: Florida
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 96
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

I’ve had a little extra time on my hands lately, and I could very well be way off base, but the more I read here on this topic, the more I have a sneaking suspicion that a part of aiki, (maybe the foundation) is the opposite of muscle contraction.

I wonder if there is a way to train to move with complete, whole-body, muscle extension. Perhaps that’s what is meant by being “connected”,” fascia”, “long muscle”,” softness in hardness/hardness in softness”, etc.

If a muscle, say the bicep for example, is contracting against some resisting object and the object suddenly gives way, what happens? Sounds like kuzushi to me. What if, instead of the muscle fibers of the bicep contracting to bend the arm against resistance, the muscle fibers of the triceps were somehow extending to drive that same movement? If the hypothetical object suddenly gives way while the triceps was extending, I wonder if the reaction would be the same. Wouldn’t the movement be counter-balanced by the extension going in the opposite direction? Now, if I could train to move my whole body with muscle extension, wouldn’t I have superb balance? How awesome would it be to be impervious to kuzushi?

Sorry for rambling. I just had to get that thought out of my head, it's been gnawing at me for months now.

Last edited by Stormcrow34 : 04-12-2010 at 07:20 PM.
 
Old 04-13-2010, 03:33 AM   #184
Michael Varin
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 567
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
David Orange wrote:
Meanwhile, I'd say the clips of William Gleason, posted earlier in the thread, are excellent examples of what you describe. He looks like he's caught the drift and I don't think his uke exaggerates.
Sticking with the theme of definitions, I would say that depends on what your definition of "exaggerates" is

They are facilitating his demonstration. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it must be recognized for what it is.

So depending on exactly what you choose to believe is being demonstrated, you may well find that it is being exaggerated.

-Michael
"Through aiki we can feel the mind of the enemy who comes to attack and are thus able to respond immediately." - M. Mochizuki
 
Old 04-13-2010, 05:43 AM   #185
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
I think that was a great article to post.

The bold and underline are my emphasis.

Quote:
Hakaru Mori wrote:
Whenever I thought about hijinobashi aiki I could easily recall both what Hisa Sensei had said about it and the feeling of his wrist and the back of his hand as he applied it, which made it all the more vexing that I couldn't do it. After a while I just started to forget about it and I stopped trying to figure it out. Then it happened one day, some time after Hisa Sensei's passing, I had an opportunity to take up the problem once again, and after studying it from a variety of angles, I finally discovered the needed principle that would allow me to do hijinobashi aiki successfully. Once I understood, it all seemed so simple! I realized that the key had been right under my feet all the time.

Even better, I also realized that this new-found principle could be applied to a wide range of situations other than katatedori, so that no matter where my opponent attempted to grab me or my clothing I could use it to do an effective technique without necessarily having to turn his palm up and reverse his wrist in the usual way typically done in jujutsu techniques. No matter what the specific starting position of my opponent's wrist or hand, I was able to straighten his elbow in an instant by applying just a little force in a particular way, in the process sending a shock to his body that sometimes even penetrated to his very center via his abdominal region. An opponent to whom this technique has been applied suddenly becomes unable to release his grip, finds the power draining out of his attack as he is floated upwards, and becomes subject to control by the will of the person applying the technique.
Sounds a bit like aiki age principle. Not only that, but the "stickiness" is also mentioned ("unable to release his grip"), and one of the defining qualities of aiki quoted by others -- "subject to control by the will of the person".

Looking for definitions of aiki? It's right there in that article. How many angles of jujutsu were tried and failed before the principle became clear? It isn't about angles and timing and body placement. That's all jujutsu.

NOTE: that doesn't mean jujutsu is something horrible. Quite the opposite. Jujutsu can be an awesome thing. But it is a separate entity from aiki.
 
Old 04-13-2010, 06:05 AM   #186
MM
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 1,996
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Michael Crowell wrote: View Post
I've had a little extra time on my hands lately, and I could very well be way off base, but the more I read here on this topic, the more I have a sneaking suspicion that a part of aiki, (maybe the foundation) is the opposite of muscle contraction.

I wonder if there is a way to train to move with complete, whole-body, muscle extension. Perhaps that's what is meant by being "connected"," fascia", "long muscle"," softness in hardness/hardness in softness", etc.

If a muscle, say the bicep for example, is contracting against some resisting object and the object suddenly gives way, what happens? Sounds like kuzushi to me. What if, instead of the muscle fibers of the bicep contracting to bend the arm against resistance, the muscle fibers of the triceps were somehow extending to drive that same movement? If the hypothetical object suddenly gives way while the triceps was extending, I wonder if the reaction would be the same. Wouldn't the movement be counter-balanced by the extension going in the opposite direction? Now, if I could train to move my whole body with muscle extension, wouldn't I have superb balance? How awesome would it be to be impervious to kuzushi?

Sorry for rambling. I just had to get that thought out of my head, it's been gnawing at me for months now.
Personally, I wouldn't explain it that way ... but in theory it's close to how I'm looking at things. Mostly, I wouldn't explain it that way because I'm trying not to activate bicep or tricep muscles at all, even together. Course, I might be trying to get them to the microsecond pre-stage of movement.

In other words getting my brain to send the signal that I want to pick something up. My hand grabs the object and at the very microsecond that my biceps would physically contract to lift, I don't let them do that but keep them at that pivotal point. At the very same time, I'm getting my brain to send the signal that I want to push that object down and at the very microsecond that my triceps would physically contract, I don't let them do that but keep them at that pivotal point. Contradictory forces using both biceps and triceps, without the actual physical contraction of those localized muscle groups. But, yet not really the actual physical extension of them either.

Same concept with the ki unbendable arm trick. You imagine a flow of water going out your arm. What really makes that work? You're sending a signal to the brain to "push" something outward but not really letting your muscles contract physically to finish the job. Except, as I mention, you have to have contradictory forces going, so outward is only 1/2 of the "intent" needed.

How do the arms tie in to the body? The shoulder area. Which, for me, is a huge obstacle because of muscles wanting to physically fire and get in the way. Once localized muscle groups (for example pecs, or biceps or quads) fire and physically contract/expand/whatever, that restricts "ki flow" as some would say. Intent outwards and inwards, from and to the spine. The shoulder joint, in that contradictory force does not get pulled outward nor does it get jammed inwards by force. That shoulder joint becomes the connection point for the arms to the upper cross.

Rinse and repeat with entire body. Structure.
 
Old 04-13-2010, 06:56 AM   #187
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Michael Varin wrote: View Post
Sticking with the theme of definitions, I would say that depends on what your definition of "exaggerates" is

They are facilitating his demonstration. There is absolutely nothing wrong with that, but it must be recognized for what it is.

So depending on exactly what you choose to believe is being demonstrated, you may well find that it is being exaggerated.
Just curious as to what part of Uke's performance you think the Ukes are exaggerating - the vocal grunt or the range of their movements?

Thanks

Greg
 
Old 04-13-2010, 07:03 AM   #188
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
As Mark has already pointed out, and IMO, there are a couple of very valuable Aiki gems in that article

Greg
 
Old 04-13-2010, 07:42 AM   #189
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post

Same concept with the ki unbendable arm trick. You imagine a flow of water going out your arm. What really makes that work? You're sending a signal to the brain to "push" something outward but not really letting your muscles contract physically to finish the job. Except, as I mention, you have to have contradictory forces going, so outward is only 1/2 of the "intent" needed.
IMO, I call this a relaxed outward stretch with no muscle tension in any direction, and in order to maintain the in/yo concept, I view the other as an outward stretch as well; just that it is a mirror image in the opposite direction,

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
How do the arms tie in to the body? The shoulder area. Which, for me, is a huge obstacle because of muscles wanting to physically fire and get in the way. Once localized muscle groups (for example pecs, or biceps or quads) fire and physically contract/expand/whatever, that restricts "ki flow" as some would say. Intent outwards and inwards, from and to the spine. The shoulder joint, in that contradictory force does not get pulled outward nor does it get jammed inwards by force. That shoulder joint becomes the connection point for the arms to the upper cross.
Koretoshi Maruyama teaches that you should visualize that the arms and legs are tied into the body at a small X' located in the lower part of the back centered over the spine. If you look at the X from the back, the upper left point of the X is where the right leg starts, the upper right is tied to the left leg, the lower left is tied to the right arm and the lower right is tied to the left arm. When you move any arm or leg, you should mentally visualize the movement for that arm or leg is actually starting and coming from those points of the X - and it is crucial that there is absolutely no muscle tension in any of your movement paths and that the shoulders are completely relaxed with weight underside, etc.

Anyway, FWIW, that is how he presents it
 
Old 04-13-2010, 08:00 AM   #190
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Greg Steckel wrote: View Post
IMO, I call this a relaxed outward stretch with no muscle tension in any direction, and in order to maintain the in/yo concept..
is it important that there is 'no' muscle tension, or rather that it is perfectly balanced and (mutually) supported? And..moreover...that there is 'no local' firing...but rather an 'open' 'distributed' strength?

how does power build/accrue if there is no tension? What happens when you need strength now?
 
Old 04-13-2010, 08:12 AM   #191
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Yoshimine Yasuo wrote:
hmm...
 
Old 04-13-2010, 08:26 AM   #192
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
hmm...
The writer blows off "Kokyu" as being central, but then he goes on to say in his last sentence:

Isn't aiki (and jujutu in general) as well as CMA the art of mastering jing but expressed in different contexts?

The problem is that kokyu is simply jin, at its core, yet the writer thinks kokyu is some kind of normal-physical power, it seems. As the old saying says (and I've mentioned this a number of times in the past): "There is only one jin. All jins come from the one jin". So kokyu, "fa jin", "aiki age", aiki itself (which is an application; kokyu is a ryoku), etc., etc., are all based on one power. If you learn how to do that one power and then learn a number of its sophisticated usages, you can use them in numerous martial arts, despite the many various terms found in many various Asian martial-arts for that same basic jin-derived power.

FWIW

Mike Sigman
 
Old 04-13-2010, 09:09 AM   #193
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
is it important that there is 'no' muscle tension, or rather that it is perfectly balanced and (mutually) supported? And..moreover...that there is 'no local' firing...but rather an 'open' 'distributed' strength?

how does power build/accrue if there is no tension? What happens when you need strength now?
Not sure how to answer that for you other than to just tell you how I imagine it, which is to mentally focus on absolutely no muscle tension anywhere (other that the small amount to maintain stability) while my mental image is of pushing my bones out in a spiral motion pulling on and twisting my ligaments and tendons as I extend out. I believe that will also be pulling and twisting on the attached muscles as well, but I try not to think of that so I will not have a tendency to tense those muscles up. Again, MO and not an authoritative statement on anything.

Greg
 
Old 04-13-2010, 09:20 AM   #194
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

hi Greg,
Thanks. It occurs to me that you and Mark are talking about...veeery soft work. Focusing on .. something different than i had in mind. More about isolating the intent..to focus/feel the changes as they occur on the body. Sensitivity work? To work directly with the changes invoked by intent. Closer? (but still no cigar, i bet..)
; )
always interesting.
 
Old 04-13-2010, 09:32 AM   #195
gregstec
Dojo: Aiki Kurabu
Location: Elizabethtown, PA
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,110
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Josh Phillipson wrote: View Post
hi Greg,
Thanks. It occurs to me that you and Mark are talking about...veeery soft work. Focusing on .. something different than i had in mind. More about isolating the intent..to focus/feel the changes as they occur on the body. Sensitivity work? To work directly with the changes invoked by intent. Closer? (but still no cigar, i bet..)
; )
always interesting.
Soft is a good thing
 
Old 04-13-2010, 10:21 AM   #196
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

i see that cake up there, beside your name....Happy Birthday Chris!
have a good one, Dude.
Josh
 
Old 04-13-2010, 11:54 AM   #197
ChrisHein
 
ChrisHein's Avatar
Dojo: Aikido of Fresno
Location: Fresno , CA
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,632
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Thanks Josh.

I can see we are going to need a thread defining "Ju" as well. There seems to be the decided opinion of an aiki camp, that jujutsu is simply all that stuff we do that is easily explainable.

I consistently see the word jujutsu used whenever something is perceived as simple or less important (i.e. angle, timing, leverage etc).

"Ju" is another principle, different then "Aiki". "Ju" has to do with yielding to force. While angle, timing, leverage and all of these other components are a part of jujutsu, they are also components in Aikido, Aikijujutsu, Aikijutsu, and most martial art systems (that I know of). These concepts shouldn't be relegated to a heap of stuff we call "simple" . Further we should give the respect to Jujutsu that we give to the Aiki related arts. Different but equal.

While "Aiki" as I understand it, is my main focus. I still use and appreciate the principle of "Ju". Further to think that things like angle, leverage etc. are not important to Aikido, is to ignore the forms. Aikido forms consistently use angle, leverage and many other "simple" concepts.

 
Old 04-13-2010, 12:00 PM   #198
rroeserr
Join Date: Apr 2009
Posts: 27
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Mark Murray wrote: View Post
Personally, I wouldn't explain it that way ... but in theory it's close to how I'm looking at things. Mostly, I wouldn't explain it that way because I'm trying not to activate bicep or tricep muscles at all, even together. Course, I might be trying to get them to the microsecond pre-stage of movement.

In other words getting my brain to send the signal that I want to pick something up. My hand grabs the object and at the very microsecond that my biceps would physically contract to lift, I don't let them do that but keep them at that pivotal point. At the very same time, I'm getting my brain to send the signal that I want to push that object down and at the very microsecond that my triceps would physically contract, I don't let them do that but keep them at that pivotal point. Contradictory forces using both biceps and triceps, without the actual physical contraction of those localized muscle groups. But, yet not really the actual physical extension of them either.

Same concept with the ki unbendable arm trick. You imagine a flow of water going out your arm. What really makes that work? You're sending a signal to the brain to "push" something outward but not really letting your muscles contract physically to finish the job. Except, as I mention, you have to have contradictory forces going, so outward is only 1/2 of the "intent" needed.

How do the arms tie in to the body? The shoulder area. Which, for me, is a huge obstacle because of muscles wanting to physically fire and get in the way. Once localized muscle groups (for example pecs, or biceps or quads) fire and physically contract/expand/whatever, that restricts "ki flow" as some would say. Intent outwards and inwards, from and to the spine. The shoulder joint, in that contradictory force does not get pulled outward nor does it get jammed inwards by force. That shoulder joint becomes the connection point for the arms to the upper cross.

Rinse and repeat with entire body. Structure.
If you look at a lock like kote-gaeshi done properly it goes all the way from your wrist (forearm), scapula, to your spine, hip, and on down to the ground. So basically you have just been wound up, and if you stay relaxed it goes right through your shoulder. You can take your hara and unwind yourself. I think that's what your supposed to be doing in the wrist lock warmup exercises. Anyways part of me thinks that a component of internal power is moving yourself using a similar mechanism that Don Angier called commutative locking - just in reverse.

Later,
Robert
 
Old 04-13-2010, 12:10 PM   #199
Mike Sigman
Location: Durango, CO
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 4,123
United_States
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Quote:
Chris Hein wrote: View Post
I can see we are going to need a thread defining "Ju" as well. There seems to be the decided opinion of an aiki camp, that jujutsu is simply all that stuff we do that is easily explainable.

I consistently see the word jujutsu used whenever something is perceived as simple or less important (i.e. angle, timing, leverage etc).

"Ju" is another principle, different then "Aiki". "Ju" has to do with yielding to force.
Hi Chris:

I'd disagree. I think that basically "kokyu", "Ki strength", "aiki", etc., has intertwined usage that is the same as "ju" originally referred to. Here's a comment from Steven R. Cunningham (the whole paper is at
http://www.judoamerica.com/coachingc...ano-kata.shtml ) :
Quote:
Kano extensively studied the Tenjin Shinyo Ryu Jujutsu which is a fusion of Shin no Shindo Ryu and Yoshin Ryu. Yoshin Ryu (Yo, meaning "willow tree," and Shin, meaning "heart or spirit") was de-vised by a doctor from Nagasaki named Shirobei Yoshitoki Akiyama. Akiyama had studied battlefield and healing arts in Japan, and is thought to have been accomplished in Jujutsu. Wishing to extend his knowl-edge, Akiyama went to China to study in the 1600s. There he studied medicine, katsu (life-restoring tech-niques), and various martial arts, especially striking arts and their use as applied to vital areas (kyusho-jutsu). He also studied Taoism, Taoist healing and martial arts, and acu-punc-ture. The centerpiece of the art he created by incorpor-ating his training in China with Japanese methods was a syllabus of 300 techniques. This represented an infusion of the "soft" or "internal" martial arts of China into Japan 6.

The soft or internal arts were known popularly in China as jou-chuan, the characters for which are read in Japanese as "ju-ken," meaning "soft fist." It was common throughout that period to refer to all internal arts by this name. This may have played some role in the eventual popularity of the term jujutsu for these rough-and-tumble martial arts. Kano and others argued that there was nothing "gentle" or "soft" about Jujutsu, and that ju was hardly the over-riding principle of the arts. The arts were called "ju-arts" or jujutsu because they were based on internal methods and ki (internal energy), not because they employed no strength or force 7.
FWIW

Mike Sigman
 
Old 04-13-2010, 12:22 PM   #200
thisisnotreal
 
thisisnotreal's Avatar
Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 693
Offline
Re: Video definitions, "Aiki" and other terms.

Chris,
May I ask, how do you understand the Hakaru Mori article?
What about the principle of aiki age, as Mark presented for consideration? How does this all fit together, with your point of view? They seem, to me, to be at odds.
Curious to hear your opinion.
For instance; why did the technique elude him..and then open up into something else he could do from myriad positions/encounters? What was perfected?
i do not know
 

Please visit our sponsor:

Handmade Aikido Gifts - Handmade functional ceramic art with aikido themes



Closed Thread


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:34 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2014 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2014 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate