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Old 11-27-2008, 03:30 PM   #176
graham butt
Join Date: Mar 2004
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

good point, it does boil down to the skill of the practitioners, but the same can be said for anything. There's many factors in this, Speed, Skill, Technique, 'Advantages'/'Disadvantages', The possibility of weight in weapons, length in weapons. Too many things to think about, My point in general now after thinking about this is that it boils down to the Shallow minded-ness of those who believe that one would win over the other because of... the length of a weapon.
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Old 11-28-2008, 02:04 AM   #177
M Butt
Location: Glasgow
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

I agree with what you say but i'm merely speaking from the point of view that both practitioners are equally skilled in the use of their OWN weapons. I wonder how well they'd do if you gave the kali guy the jo and the aikido guy the kali sticks, just to mix it up a bit. They'd both still be using 4 feet of weaponry but just the opposite of what they're used to.

I agree with what you say though. Is it not remarkable how some people take a genuine discussion and blow it into a full scale argument?
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:15 PM   #178
Boris Spassky
 
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

Quote:
Kevin Leavitt wrote: View Post

That said, I think aikido is very complimentary to escrima/kali.
The late Shihan John Damian of Imua Ki Aikido taught arnis as well as Aikido and he and his son Maestro Tokuji Damian had some real interesting techniques for the mix.

Interesting post-
James
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Old 02-11-2010, 12:46 PM   #179
mickeygelum
 
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

Quote:
Quote:
Enrique Antonio Reyes wrote:

he he he. Maybe Aikido vs. BJJ (Aikidoka stays still waiting for an attack, Jitz guy drops to his back waiting for the Aikidoka to go down onto his guard.

After five minutes of that, they give up and go for a beer.

R
That is hilarious...thanks for the laugh!

Train well,

Mickey
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Old 02-12-2010, 01:04 PM   #180
George S. Ledyard
 
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

Quote:
Dustin Acuff wrote: View Post
We normally have stuff come up like Aikido vs Muai Thai JKD TKD Boxing BJJ Judo, etc. I got to wondering, what about the philipino knife/stick arts? Even my sensei has little idea how it could be done without suffering too much. Anyone who has trained escrima or another similar art have any idea how to deal with a skilled practitioner wielding two sticks/knives?
I'm sorry... we are talking about Aikido vs Kali, Silat. Arnis with blades maybe? You might as well be talking about Aikido vs Cuisinart.

One of my friends witnessed a discussion between a couple special ops guys, one as SAS veteran and the other a Silat practitioner. The SAS fellow maintained that he could access his handgun fast enough to defeat a guy with a knife.

The Silat fellow asked for a ballpoint pen and put it in his pocket. Then he told the SAS guy to go for his sidearm. Before he could clear leather and put the Silat guy on point, the Silat guy had taken the pen, entered and repeatedly "cut" the SAS guy. The folks watching this counted 18 "cuts" each of which would have been either disabling in some way or life threatening. That's in under two seconds. Try your Aikido on that...

The closest relationship between Aikido and Kali can be seen in the Doces Pares system of escrima. I trained with Chris Petrilli, Grandmaster Canete's senior American student. They have all the strikes that any stick / knife system would be expected to have. But close in, these guys have a repertoire that is staggering. Canete had an Aikido background, but no one seems to be able to say exactly who he trained with. Anyway, he combined the Aikido with his escrima and called it "Escrido". The number of close quarters strikes, entanglements, locks, and throws these guys have at their disposal is mind blowing. But the application of technique is still stick against stick. The idea that you might prevail empty hand against a skilled practitioner with a stick(s) or Knife(s) is ludicrous.

Last edited by George S. Ledyard : 02-12-2010 at 01:07 PM.

George S. Ledyard
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Old 02-12-2010, 11:21 PM   #181
Garth Jones
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

Quote:
George S. Ledyard wrote: View Post
I'm sorry... we are talking about Aikido vs Kali, Silat. Arnis with blades maybe? You might as well be talking about Aikido vs Cuisinart.

One of my friends witnessed a discussion between a couple special ops guys, one as SAS veteran and the other a Silat practitioner. The SAS fellow maintained that he could access his handgun fast enough to defeat a guy with a knife.

The Silat fellow asked for a ballpoint pen and put it in his pocket. Then he told the SAS guy to go for his sidearm. Before he could clear leather and put the Silat guy on point, the Silat guy had taken the pen, entered and repeatedly "cut" the SAS guy. The folks watching this counted 18 "cuts" each of which would have been either disabling in some way or life threatening. That's in under two seconds. Try your Aikido on that...
I have a friend who has trained extensively in the use of firearms in self defense (pistol, non-military). Their standard target shooting distance is 21 feet. That is because any closer and an attacker with a knife will be able to close the distance and stab/cut before the person with the pistol can clear leather and shoot. Closer than 21 feet it is better to dodge, run, surrender, etc. but going for the gun will get you killed.

I've played around with knife takeaways (more than just the standard aikido forms) to know that I would only try if 'for real' if I thought I was going to die anyway.
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:14 AM   #182
Melchizedek
 
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

Aikido & Escrima.., you can use them both in war if you live it doesn’t mean you win., but you can never tell if the attacks at you is wave after waves of attacks, & ammunition is all ready depleted & the reenforcement is 6 hrs. delayed coming from Basilan, and they were all armed w/ cris as their secondary weapon and have the knowledge of arnis, luckily some Soldiers knows Aikido and Kamagong or Yakal MA. Known as Filipino Martial Arts. They were able to hold them back till the support fire raining of 105mm coming from the mobile artillery support unit. and the waves of attack forced to regroup.

(if anyone knows the story about Hulo sulu “Comet” at Camp General Bautista.)

it’s better not to mention any names my deepest respect to my mates and others may you all rest in peace. Their sacrifices will not be in vain.

This is just among many encounters of the AFP and thanks to US Marine Corp. for their Sincere assistance that they’re doing to our country and may terrorism seizes to know that
Violence + Violence = no one wins.

(1)

(2)

(3)

Last edited by Melchizedek : 02-13-2010 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 02-13-2010, 03:23 AM   #183
Michael Fitzgerald
Dojo: AikiKai
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

Quote:
Dustin Acuff wrote: View Post
We normally have stuff come up like Aikido vs Muai Thai JKD TKD Boxing BJJ Judo, etc. I got to wondering, what about the philipino knife/stick arts? Even my sensei has little idea how it could be done without suffering too much. Anyone who has trained escrima or another similar art have any idea how to deal with a skilled practitioner wielding two sticks/knives?
a more appropriate comparison MAY be Sinawali Vs Ni-To.
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Old 02-16-2010, 10:16 AM   #184
Cliff Judge
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Re: Aikido vs. Escrima/Kali

I trained with some decent knife-based FMA guys for about a year.

What I found really interesting about the system was that it wasn't a self-defense system, or a martial way - it was just about killing a man with a blade. The training was built around that. Everybody had a belt full of aluminum training knives, and a gentle touch with the blade was considered a "kill."

So everyone trains to be as light and quick as possible - it's a game of seeking angles of attack where your partner can't trap you or find an angle on you.

There wasn't any concept of center-to-center connection or breaking balance or anything like that at the level I was training at. When we did takedowns, throws, or grappling type stuff (grappling doesn't last very long when there are blades handy) my instructor - a neurosurgeon by trade - didn't seem to have a very deep understanding of the mechanics.

I can say that on a couple of occasions I did some things that were very surprising to my seniors by applying what I have learned in Aikido. But the game was fundamentally about kill or be killed (1000 times in the space of a minute) with cold steel. Two different martial arts that exist in two different worlds.

At the end of the day, learning how to better manifest Aikido is a much more interesting and productive endeavor, IMO, than learning how to defend myself in a manner that places me in serious legal trouble as well as risk for God only knows whatever bloodborn pathogens I just got all over my body.
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