Welcome to AikiWeb Aikido Information
AikiWeb: The Source for Aikido Information
AikiWeb's principal purpose is to serve the Internet community as a repository and dissemination point for aikido information.

Sections
home
aikido articles
columns

Discussions
forums
aikiblogs

Databases
dojo search
seminars
image gallery
supplies
links directory

Reviews
book reviews
video reviews
dvd reviews
equip. reviews

News
submit
archive

Miscellaneous
newsletter
rss feeds
polls
about

Follow us on



Home > AikiWeb Aikido Forums
Go Back   AikiWeb Aikido Forums > General

Hello and thank you for visiting AikiWeb, the world's most active online Aikido community! This site is home to over 22,000 aikido practitioners from around the world and covers a wide range of aikido topics including techniques, philosophy, history, humor, beginner issues, the marketplace, and more.

If you wish to join in the discussions or use the other advanced features available, you will need to register first. Registration is absolutely free and takes only a few minutes to complete so sign up today!

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-11-2010, 09:31 PM   #1
Andrew Macdonald
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 126
Offline
Aikido vs ...............

this is kinda jumping off from the 'aikido vs Kali' thread, but it didn;t want to hijack that thread,

so my new question is.....

what style are you most worried about exchanging with.

before you answer....

I know O'sensei took on all comers, however I am talking about the people on this board

every art has its own strengths and weaknesses, it is not a bad thing to say that you would find it diffiuclt to handle something, self knowledge is a valuble thing

and i'll throw myself open to start off

i guess for myself i am most worried about the short range striking arts, if they would get in on me it would really test my body movement, also because they are short range they tend to work on a very small circle of movement which i think would make it more difficult for me to enter

long range striking arts i am more comfortable (although I still bring my best game to the table) as I have more experience in them and it seems (at my level anyway) that alot of the attack we use in aikido are long range

I am interested to hear any other views opinions or experiences
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-11-2010, 10:34 PM   #2
Boris Spassky
 
Boris Spassky's Avatar
Location: Spring Valley, CA.
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 32
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Hmm..What do you consider long range and short range?

I have only my 2nd blue belt in Aikido but nearly 20 years in Kempo. I train in Aikido because I enjoy the beauty, harmony, and non confrontational approach. It would seem difficult to use Aikido effectively against my Kempo peers, as well as MMA.

How does Aikido deal with a flurry of strikes? You need not enter, I will enter for you-

Our school offers Kempo, Aikido, Tai-Chi, etc. and when people come in I ask them what their goal is in the martial arts- I then tell them that in my opinion Aikido is the ultimate in martial arts due to its non aggressive and non competitive nature, but in order to learn to protect oneself in a relatively short period of time, take Kempo or another striking art.

James
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 12:00 AM   #3
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,334
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

thermonuclear weapons.
yep.
definitely.

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 01:23 AM   #4
Abasan
Dojo: Aiki Shoshinkan, Aiki Kenkyukai
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 813
Malaysia
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Saying Aikido vs ... is very limiting. Its more appropriate to say Me vs ... because in the end its you on the line. One day you may win and the next you lose. Look at boxing vs boxing. Or UFC vs UFC. The competitor wins because he is prepared, he has the skills and the training and because either the opponent has something less or because of luck.

Aikido is like a sword. And the ... could be a knife, a gun or a nuclear missile. None of the above works without you to pull the trigger so to speak.

But here's the thing... I personally think Aikido is enough. But the funny thing is, learning other arts was what made me understand that. I had to see from different perspectives that Aikido has a lot of depth 'martially'. But getting 'aiki' is a totally different ball game. That will blow your mind.

What am I afraid off to encounter now at this present time? Gangs... when I have my kids with me.

Draw strength from stillness. Learn to act without acting. And never underestimate a samurai cat.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 02:36 AM   #5
L. Camejo
 
L. Camejo's Avatar
Dojo: Ontario Martial Arts
Location: Mississauga, Ontario
Join Date: Aug 2001
Posts: 1,423
Canada
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
thermonuclear weapons.
yep.
definitely.
I'm with Janet - what she said.. and sniper-jutsu

--Mushin Mugamae - No Mind No Posture. He who is possessed by nothing possesses everything.--
http://www.tntaikido.org
http://www.mushinkan.ca
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 04:39 AM   #6
dalen7
 
dalen7's Avatar
Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
Location: Karcag
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
Hungary
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
I know O'sensei took on all comers, however I am talking about the people on this board

I am interested to hear any other views opinions or experiences
The answer is in your statement...
... go to a competitive sport and try it out.

I have and came away with conformation of what I had already thought was the case.

The main problem is the concept of "Aikido verses" anything.

Aikido is part of a body of knowledge and does not stand on its own when it comes to the discussion of pitting it against something.

Its like your taking an arm [aikido] off of the body [martial arts] and trying to make it into something its not. This is not your fault but a natural progression of what happens when your not able to test theory out in a live environment.

I know Im not the only person who has cross-trained, and not the only person who has tried their Aikido out in cross-training. [Though I have made it a primary focus to see where it stands].

You get someone just doing kicks... they will be in for a world of hurt - like wise someone who only trains in something of a variant range, etc.

MMA points well to this, though its not all clearly spelled out.

Its like the whole Jean Claude vs. Seagall bit years back.
Whoever was in better shape, more flexible, quick, would win a fight. You cannot undervalue physical conditioning by any means.

The whole concept of not using strength, I feel, is very misunderstood. Yes there are different approaches to how your defense can be applied, but its not as some figure where its magic fingers touching you, regardless of the shape your in, and the person flying.

If it is, then I want that person to train with me live and show me.
I have turned into the worlds formost doubting Thomas - yet at the same time, I am one of the most open minded people... just a time and place for everything, and a means and a method. Wanting something to be true wont work, but finding out how to make it true will.

So, instead of making it Aikido vs. something, try to add to the range you train in. [Work your kicks and realize their limitations, work your strikes and realize their limitiations... are you using knees and elbows, etc.]

There are so many scenarios its crazy, but in reality the answer to them is quite straight forward.

Peace

dAlen

dAlen [day•lynn]
dum spiro spero - {While I have breathe - I have hope}

Art
http://www.lightofinfinity.org

Philosophical
http://dalen7.wordpress.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 04:46 AM   #7
dalen7
 
dalen7's Avatar
Dojo: Karcag Aikido Club
Location: Karcag
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 750
Hungary
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
James Gibson wrote: View Post
Our school offers Kempo, Aikido, Tai-Chi, etc. and when people come in I ask them what their goal is in the martial arts- I then tell them that in my opinion Aikido is the ultimate in martial arts due to its non aggressive and non competitive nature, but in order to learn to protect oneself in a relatively short period of time, take Kempo or another striking art.

James
I remember when I lived stateside I went to a kungfu dojo and asked about its effectiveness against multiple attackers - I was actually told to go to a competing wing chun dojo, who happened to train in BJJ, Kali, Thai Boxing, etc., as it was more practical and effective and that his style was more for 'show'.

This honesty actually was surprising and welcomed at the time - I remember every dojo saying their art had what it took, and here was a guy that basically admitted his tiger styles, etc. were more for show.

I believe he thought wing chun was more effective, but my take on it now is that the fact they cross-train is what makes the wing chun more effective.

The fact is if you know something and someone else doesnt... you can basically wipe the floor with them regardless of what art you use. [people are dazed as they are not used to any fighting scenario.]

Anyway...

Peace

dAlen

dAlen [day•lynn]
dum spiro spero - {While I have breathe - I have hope}

Art
http://www.lightofinfinity.org

Philosophical
http://dalen7.wordpress.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 06:09 AM   #8
SeiserL
 
SeiserL's Avatar
Location: Florida Gulf coast
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 3,878
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

IMHO, its the person not the style, but give me a well seasoned street fighter or combat veteran.

Lynn Seiser PhD
Yondan Aikido & FMA/JKD
We do not rise to the level of our expectations, but fall to the level of our training. Train well. KWATZ!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 06:56 AM   #9
Mark Peckett
Dojo: Aikido Fellowship of Great Britain
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 84
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Wmd!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 08:10 AM   #10
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,153
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Larry Camejo wrote: View Post
I'm with Janet - what she said.. and sniper-jutsu
Dude. Superman. Superman beats nuclear weapons and snipers both, with one hand tied behind his manly-muscle back!

(could Bruce Lee beat up Steven Seagal?)
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 08:17 AM   #11
Dazzler
Dojo: Bristol North Aikido Dojo
Location: Bristol
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 659
England
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
IMHO, its the person not the style, but give me a well seasoned street fighter or combat veteran.
I've put one in the post...not sure of your seasoning preference so hope English mustard is ok.

Hope it agrees with you...I certainly do.

Regards

D
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 01:30 PM   #12
Dewey
Location: St. Louis, MO
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 179
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Janet Rosen wrote: View Post
thermonuclear weapons.
yep.
definitely.
IED's...most definitely. Buddies who did time in Iraq and Afghanistan tell me about how they lived in constant fear of them while on patrol.

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Dude. Superman. Superman beats nuclear weapons and snipers both, with one hand tied behind his manly-muscle back!

(could Bruce Lee beat up Steven Seagal?)
No way. Batman wins every time. Brains always beats brawn.
------------------------------------------

Seriously, though. If one's understanding of Aiki is how it would fare in a "vs." situation...then methinks they misunderestimated the meaning of Aiki. Aikido is more than "just" a set of techniques & counter-techniques.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 02:32 PM   #13
Phil Van Treese
Dojo: Tampa Judo and Aikido Dojo, Tampa, Fl
Location: Tampa, Florida
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 177
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

I read the question but whit I feel is the "which is the better style" nonsense. I have been attacked by street fighters, other "experts"in the M.A. etc, etc. I used my training in judo, aikido and common sense to overcome the experts. Regardless of what you know, how you train will be your companion on the street if needed.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 05:48 PM   #14
Ketsan
Dojo: Zanshin Kai
Location: Birmingham
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 865
United Kingdom
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Me, I'm my own worst enemy.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 06:08 PM   #15
Keith Larman
Dojo: AIA, Los Angeles, CA
Location: California
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,604
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Mary Malmros wrote: View Post
Dude. Superman. Superman beats nuclear weapons and snipers both, with one hand tied behind his manly-muscle back!

(could Bruce Lee beat up Steven Seagal?)
Pfffft. Amateurs. I nominate my wife on a particularly bad day for her at work. I decided to help out by boiling some eggs. I put them on then promptly forgot about them and went out to my workshop to get some stuff done. On "high" on the stovetop.

She comes home to exploding, burning eggs. Oh, yes. Hardened, burning, napalm like egg yolk stuck to the ceiling and covering the kitchen. Good lord I thought she was going to wipe out half a continent just with her female anger vision power... I still whimper when I think of that day...

The really sad part was this is something I had done before...

Sigh...

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 06:23 PM   #16
Janet Rosen
  AikiWeb Forums Contributing Member
 
Janet Rosen's Avatar
Location: Left Coast
Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 4,334
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Keith Larman wrote: View Post
Pfffft. Amateurs. I nominate my wife on a particularly bad day for her at work. I decided to help out by boiling some eggs. I put them on then promptly forgot about them and went out to my workshop to get some stuff done. On "high" on the stovetop.
Keith, take a tip from a middle aged budobabe: this is why there are kitchen timers!!!! I'd let my tea steep all day without setting it, much less try to cook anything....

Janet Rosen
http://www.zanshinart.com
"peace will enter when hate is gone"--percy mayfield
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-12-2010, 06:26 PM   #17
bakersan960
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 8
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Lynn Seiser wrote: View Post
IMHO, its the person not the style, but give me a well seasoned street fighter or combat veteran.
You my friend are right! IT is the person that knows common sense street fighting, cut from a certain cloth that is a very tough opponent! Iv'e worked out with many high ranking black belts that could not hold thier own in the street! Take one of these kinds of people and train them for 5 years and you can have avery SMART non fighter!
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 12:17 PM   #18
Alan_Lamb
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 9
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

I don't fear the martial art, I fear the martial artist. It doesn't really matter is what i'm saying. You might get into a tussle with a karateka, one kote gaeshi later, and the guy is no threat. Few months later you might fight another guy, same style and rank, and get your ass stomped. You just have to wait and see really.
You never know how long the fight will be, you always have to be ready- Seagal
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 02:13 PM   #19
Shannon Frye
Dojo: Aikido Fellowship of VA / Chesapeake Va
Location: Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 184
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Not to hijack the thread, but does any train in a style of aikido that actually trains in what to do AFTER the ukemi ?
(Your ukemi , not ukes). Any styles of aikido teach groundwork?

"In the end there can be only one"

www.AikidoFellowship.com
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 04:29 PM   #20
Kevin Leavitt
 
Kevin Leavitt's Avatar
Dojo: Team Combat USA
Location: Olympia, Washington
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 4,376
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

I have taught ground work to Aikidoka. I have run classes on what to do after ukemi...or better yet...ukemi is not about falling down, but about moving to a better postion.

  Reply With Quote
Old 02-13-2010, 06:58 PM   #21
Chuck Clark
 
Chuck Clark's Avatar
Dojo: Jiyushinkan
Location: Monroe, Washington
Join Date: Jun 2000
Posts: 1,134
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

What a concept!

Chuck Clark
Jiyushinkai Aikibudo
www.jiyushinkai.org
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 12:05 PM   #22
Andrew Macdonald
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 126
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

hmmm seems i used the wrong title for my post,

The question wasn't about style vs style but about recognizing areas where yourself and/or aikido and/or training can be filled out

I have experience in other Martial arts and hold ranks and dan grades in them, I always find it interesting to compare the tactics and specialitiesof the styles I do

yes it is of course about the person ultimately but if i was against a boxer i would keep him back with kicks, if i were against a TKD person i would close in on them

I know that these are broad generalizations but sometimes for the sake of argument these have to made

I am aware that many people cross train and I am one of them, I really love it, butthrough the corss trainingthese questions come up

I was playing around with my friends one night and did a irimi nage on them, not a full one but as much as safety would allow. later that evening a boxer friend of mine was chatting to me about it and admitted he wasn't sure how he would deal with it, not because he wasn't a god fighter but because no one ha done it to him, so we went away and trained on it

this is just one of many such stories which lead to the question i asked

I really have to work on my titles
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 01:43 PM   #23
lbb
Location: Massachusetts
Join Date: Jun 2006
Posts: 3,153
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Andrew Macdonald wrote: View Post
The question wasn't about style vs style but about recognizing areas where yourself and/or aikido and/or training can be filled out

I have experience in other Martial arts and hold ranks and dan grades in them, I always find it interesting to compare the tactics and specialitiesof the styles I do
Well, they're different paths up the same mountain, or can be. I know that's a dreadful cliche, but one of my great loves (besides martial arts) is hiking, and I will often resort to hiking analogies if I'm not carefully restrained I live not far from Mount Greylock in Massachusetts, a popular peak that is summited by the Appalachian Trail, and that has many other approaches as well. I've taken a lot of these different approaches, at different times of year, in different weather -- each time it's a different experience, and each time it has elements in common with my other climbs to the top. The more ways I climb, the more I appreciate them all.

And there, unfortunately, the analogy breaks down, because a climb to the top of Greylock is a dayhike, while a climb to the top of the martial arts "peak" is the work of a lifetime. To get that sense of deeper appreciation for each path, you have to at least get a fair distance up the mountain, and that is the work of years. Anyone can do a google search and compile a list of distinctive tactics and techniques in different styles, any newbie who's been studying a month or two can probably rattle off a standard blurb about what their style is good at...but understanding these characteristics in context is a different matter.

As far as "filling out" your skillset, I think that this is a desirable outcome, but as a goal it's got some drawbacks. Taking up a new style with a mercenary attitude like, "I'm going to study this to improve my striking skills, and thus improve my atemi for aikido", it seems to me, has a good chance of backfiring. IME, it's when you drop the expectations, the shopping list, the "what are you gonna do for ME" attitude, that a style has a chance to seep into you and really teach you something.
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 07:58 PM   #24
Johann Baptista
Dojo: Aikido Institute Davis
Location: Davis, CA
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 29
Brazil
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

I think this thread opens up a lot of possibilities. I would probably be with the thread starter in worrying about short range fighting arts, especially those that hit fast like Kra Magov (Israeli Fighting Forces), and leave even faster so that you can't catch them. Some Aikido techniques would work, but some wouldn't. The problem with these arts though is that when you punch and retrieve your punch really fast, you do less damage then when you commit to your punch.

I would still like to say, I don't believe in a collection of techniques called Aikido. Aikido to me, is any movement done with mindfulness and harmonious intention. O'Sensei said that once you train enough to react spontaneously, anything can become Aikido. Kempo, jujitsu, Judo, these are all labels. What if a Kempo master were to invent a new move and call it a Kempo move? What if an Aikido Sensei were in a real fight and found an opportunity to trip the assailant by letting him over-commit and then swiping his feet from below him with his legs? Would that be Aikido?

Technically, every move we do is a new move, because you can never do something exactly the same twice. Aikido is always new. So again, which kind of art would your Aikido be difficult against?

- Johann
  Reply With Quote
Old 02-14-2010, 08:24 PM   #25
Shannon Frye
Dojo: Aikido Fellowship of VA / Chesapeake Va
Location: Virginia
Join Date: Sep 2005
Posts: 184
United_States
Offline
Re: Aikido vs ...............

Quote:
Johann Baptista wrote: View Post
... Aikido is always new. So again, which kind of art would your Aikido be difficult against?

- Johann
I really like the way you phrased that.

"In the end there can be only one"

www.AikidoFellowship.com
  Reply With Quote

Please visit our sponsor:

AikiWeb Sponsored Links - Place your Aikido link here for only $10!



Reply


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
My Experiences in Cross Training MMA with Aikido Reuben General 126 02-17-2015 10:56 PM
Transmission, Inheritance, Emulation 6 Peter Goldsbury Columns 35 03-13-2009 07:16 PM
The continued Evolution of Aikido salim General 716 12-27-2008 11:00 PM
Aikido in Amsterdam, Terry Lax style... tiyler_durden General 11 11-03-2008 09:31 AM
Women and Everybody Else in Aikido George S. Ledyard Teaching 113 03-16-2008 08:27 PM


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 04:12 PM.



vBulletin Copyright © 2000-2017 Jelsoft Enterprises Limited
----------
Copyright 1997-2017 AikiWeb and its Authors, All Rights Reserved.
----------
For questions and comments about this website:
Send E-mail
plainlaid-picaresque outchasing-protistan explicantia-altarage seaford-stellionate