Suwariwaza - Kokyuho & internal strength

How is internal strength related to Suwariwaza - Kokyuho?

David

Great question.

Intimately.

Just a tool for training internal skills.

Jeremy,

Are you making a distinction between "strength" and "skills" here? Could you say more?

Respectfully

cdh

David Henderson wrote: Jeremy, Are you making a distinction between "strength" and "skills" here? Could you say more? Respectfully cdh

Thanks,
I sort of mis read or mis read into the question. I think that Kokyu-ho, agete can be a tool for develping internal strength and a marker to see if you've got some of it..

I think that being seated takes the ability to bend the knees out of the equation.

I guess that I'm thinkig out loud here but they don't have to be related.

David Skaggs wrote: How is internal strength related to Suwariwaza - Kokyuho?

What do you mean "how related"? Kokyu-ho is an (IS development) exercise/method... The more appropriate question, to me, would be, how and in what way does kokyu-ho develop IS?

my opinion is that the suwariwaza part allows for focussed feeling of uke's forces and direction without the distraction of movement. Upper body relaxation with lower body rootedness is the core of "internal" martial arts. kokyu Ho movements of arm extension promotes grounding. Wrist rotations promotes the ability to reduce ukes power without losing connection and attachment. Finally movement of nage's core either linearly or by rotation brings about kuzhushi. Hope this will help.

Ignatius Teo wrote: What do you mean "how related"? Kokyu-ho is an (IS development) exercise/method... The more appropriate question, to me, would be, how and in what way does kokyu-ho develop IS?

Well that would be a relationship between the two.
Do you have an answer to your question?

David

If I did, would I be asking the question?

I think it helps with developing Aiki skills, not Internal Strength. No doubt someone with Internal Strength would be able to do a semblance of kyoku-ho. So would a person who has no IS but has good Aiki skills.

But there are better ways to train IS than this, so I wouldn't expect it to help much in IS development. It helps tremendously in Aiki development though.

Loh mention some good points. At the end of it all, you can see the difference when done right and when done improperly. Some people raise their armpits thereby losing chushin, some posture up thus find it hard to learn uprooting and instead resort to pushing, some don't extend and thus uke can push them in, some are rigid thus uke can capture their center easily. So uke learns to develop extension without pushing or rigidity or floppiness and he can do it faster because he's training the upper body first and keeping center while seated is easier on the mind. That's the basic aspect I think anyway.

Onegaishimasu, suwariwaza and kokyuho are ways of exploring traditional ways of training. Maybe internal strength becomes a discovered result. In suwariwaza, for example, you do need to move your body as a single unit. You also explore another way of moving. My two cents, for what it's worth.

In gassho,

Mark

Mark Uttech wrote: Onegaishimasu, suwariwaza and kokyuho are ways of exploring traditional ways of training.

Mostly it just wreaks ones knees ...

Robert M Watson Jr wrote: Mostly it just wreaks ones knees ...

I always find this here and there. Maybe not moving right? I'm sure my suwariwaza's not that good, but it helps strengthening my knees, not wreaking them. For me.

It is a nice open ended question, good for internet discussion or argument.
What is your meaning of internal strength? Connected fascia, chi or ki stream, using whole body as single muscle, wave power, "zero power", emptying partners strength through mental vacuum, correct body alignment, physics at work, spinal torsion, subtle hand changes? etc.....
What is koyku ho. "breath power"? good body mechanics, raising energy flow through coordinated hands, arms, hips to tanden and on into ground path, perfect timing and absorption, arm wrestling,one-upmanship? etc...
I'm sure if we actually practised together some exploration would become possible, until then we just swop opinions without a genuine shared context.
regards and respect.

Mark Uttech wrote: Onegaishimasu, suwariwaza and kokyuho are ways of exploring traditional ways of training.

How do you train on onegaishimasu ?

Dirk Desmet wrote: How do you train on onegaishimasu ?

How do you train in onegaishimasu , simple, rather than just say the phrase , you should genuinely and with sincerity offer thanks to your teacher/fellow students for what you are about to receive.Its a bit like saying grace [ in earlier times] prior to eating the food that has been provided for you .The teacher provides you with food [the waza ] , you provide him the vehicle [as Uke ] to practice the waza. So mutual thanks and respect are given both by Sensei and by the students.
The phrase is not just a word it symbolises and attitude of thanks and gratitude for the lessons.

Dirk Desmet wrote: How do you train on onegaishimasu ?

Say, "Own a guy, she must!" real fast, several times a day.

Anyway. Kokyuho is for me personally one of the more important exercises in Aikido.
It even gets more difficult when I always get a total different explanation on how to do that technique from each new partner I train with.
Now I understand that some more advanced members in my club say that they finally understood the technique after several years of training.

Joshua Reyer wrote: Say, "Own a guy, she must!" real fast, several times a day.

Hahaha!
I started memorising it with the Turkish "Onu kaşımaz!'
(it wouldn't scratch him!)

But now, I can even write it

Best,

Eva

Dirk Desmet wrote: Anyway. Kokyuho is for me personally one of the more important exercises in Aikido. It even gets more difficult when I always get a total different explanation on how to do that technique from each new partner I train with. Now I understand that some more advanced members in my club say that they finally understood the technique after several years of training.

Kokyu-ho isn't a technique-it's a state of being.
As such, everything, and anyone touching you becomes a kokyu involved move.
Trouble arises when the vast majority of people in an art all do something consistently and in consort and establish a new standard- divorced from the source. It doesn't matter that it's wrong, and that it misses the point entirely.
Wrong...becomes the norm.
Right is unrecognizable and no longer even pursued.

Dan